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Fuel filter change
http://www.lostjeeps.com/forum/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=29225		 Page 1 of 2
Author:  KeighJeigh [ Tue Feb 05, 2008 7:16 pm ]
Post subject:  Fuel filter change
It is probably time for a fuel filter change. I don't know the history of the vehicle before I bought it so I am replacing most fluids and filters so I have a baseline from which to time further maintenance.
I have the filter, it looks simple enough. I changed the one on my truck in 5 minutes with nothing more to do.

Are there any "gotchas!" involved with the CRD or is it just a matter of unscrewing it and screwing the new one on like an oil filter? I figured I might fill the new filter with fuel before screwing it on, but other than that....??

- Chris
Author:  CATCRD [ Tue Feb 05, 2008 7:47 pm ]
Post subject: 
Pretty easy. Most crack the bleeder screw and pump the new filter full of fuel with the primer. Don't prefill, as you're pouring dirty fuel into the clean side of the filter.
Author:  bugnout [ Tue Feb 05, 2008 10:03 pm ]
Post subject: 
Many have found that the filter comes from the factory really torqued on. I found it easier to disconnect all the connectors and remove the entire filter head (just held on by two bolts) to change it. Torque it on pretty well when you install it. Use a little O ring grease on the gasket to ensure you get it air tight.

When your priming the new filter, push the plunger in all the way and let it extend all the way before pushing again. Do it about 3 or 4 times then crack the bleed valve and let the air out. repeat until no more air comes out. Drive it, accelerating hard a couple of times, then bleed it again. You may have to bleed the head a couple of times in the next week as well to fully purge it.

I used a little dielectric grease on the connectors, especially the fuel heater connector to help seal the connector from entering air.

Hope that helps. Oh one more thing. wear rubber gloves. :D
Author:  KeighJeigh [ Tue Feb 05, 2008 11:57 pm ]
Post subject: 
Thanks!
I came in to check this thread quickly because:
1) It was a pain in the asss to get the thing off. I had to use an oil filter wrench....which did not fit well into the tiny space.
2) I have been working the plunger and bleeder screw in the same way I have bled brake lines ... but after 15 minutes of plunging I still see no fuel coming out of the screw. I have tried leaving it open and pumping as well as pumping and cracking it etc... I am afraid of trying to start after reading past reports about cracks around the heater element that some think may be due to air pockets and resulting over heating of the plastic around the element.
Author:  KeighJeigh [ Wed Feb 06, 2008 12:16 am ]
Post subject: 
Pumping and cranking and pumping and cranking and bleeding etc.. ect... Nothing. No engine start. It started for a few seconds - using up the fuel that was in the lines.

I finally pulled the new filter off and NO fuel in it at all. So, what the HELL is going on? All I did was unscrew the old filter and screw on a new one. Pulled the plugs out and plugged them back in.
darn! I knew there was a "gotcha!" in this process somewhere. I just don't know what it is. Now I am going to have to fk with this thing all night standing & laying in the slush & snow & rain & gravel (I have no garage) until I get it running since this is my wife's commuter car!!!
Author:  KeighJeigh [ Wed Feb 06, 2008 1:04 am ]
Post subject: 
More cranking and pumping. Nothing. :evil: So, I finally poured filtered fuel into the upstream side of the filter until it was full, put it back on and pumped and cranked some more (far more stress than I would have liked on the starter) and it finally started. Now, of course, I see a CEL - which I assume is probably due to air in the lines or the moon not being properly align with Jupiter or some such thing. :shock:

How do I bleed the air out when "out in the field"? While it's running? (I would guess not). Start and stop? Also, how the hell do the dealers handle fuel filter changes? I can't imagine people drive their cars back into the dealer a bunch of times to get the air out of the lines nor can I imagine they abuse the starter in the manner I did to get them started again.

- Chris
Author:  Silverdiesel [ Wed Feb 06, 2008 1:08 am ]
Post subject: 
FWIW
I clamped the inlet and outlet hoses then removed all electrical connectors then removed the whole fuel manager assy off the firewall. At the convience of a work bench I changed the filter- being careful to pour out fuel from the spent fliter appropiately in a catch container ( cut 2 liter coke bottle). Then I installed the repl filter dry to the fuel manager being careful to monitor gasket usage/placement. It was tight and I installed new one tight.
Then its back to the firewall and reversal procedure of removal: Except stopped at leaving the outlet hose disconnected and clamped. This is important-- I then used my mightyvac vaccuum pump- attached to the outlet side of the manager and pulled a vaccuum from the lift outlet in the tank, through the fuel lines then filling (priming) the new filter and right up to the sump on the mightyvac. Then I swiftly reconnected the outlet hose and dropped the clamp. At that point I tried to bleed any air - got 1/2 pump out of the hand primer and here came the fuel out of the bleeder. Cranked 1 1/2 cranks and CRD fired right up.

If this helps sir---

Roland
Author:  KeighJeigh [ Wed Feb 06, 2008 3:32 am ]
Post subject: 
Silverdiesel wrote:
FWIW
I clamped the inlet and outlet hoses then removed all electrical connectors then removed the whole fuel manager assy off the firewall. At the convience of a work bench I changed the filter- being careful to pour out fuel from the spent fliter appropiately in a catch container ( cut 2 liter coke bottle). Then I installed the repl filter dry to the fuel manager being careful to monitor gasket usage/placement. It was tight and I installed new one tight.
Then its back to the firewall and reversal procedure of removal: Except stopped at leaving the outlet hose disconnected and clamped. This is important-- I then used my mightyvac vaccuum pump- attached to the outlet side of the manager and pulled a vaccuum from the lift outlet in the tank, through the fuel lines then filling (priming) the new filter and right up to the sump on the mightyvac. Then I swiftly reconnected the outlet hose and dropped the clamp. At that point I tried to bleed any air - got 1/2 pump out of the hand primer and here came the fuel out of the bleeder. Cranked 1 1/2 cranks and CRD fired right up.

If this helps sir---

Roland


This is excellent Roland! Thank you very much.
I just got back from driving my wife's CRD 75 miles, stopping every 15 minutes to bleed the system. I still don't have all the air out! I was also going to change the filter on my 05 and was not looking forward to it but your advice makes perfect sense based upon what appears to be happening. The trick seems to be to keep everything primed. I think my fuel probably emptied from the line and dribbled back into the tank as I changed it so I had an empty fuel line, an empty filter and an empty filter mount....and then nothing but a weak suction to pull it all back through again.

I was thinking of installing a lift pump for performance reasons at the suggestion of many people in this forum but I am wondering if it might also make filter changing and air purging a heck of a lot easier since there would be positive pressure coming from the fuel tank rather than a vacuum?
Author:  chrispitude [ Wed Feb 06, 2008 7:49 am ]
Post subject: 
KeighJeigh wrote:
I was thinking of installing a lift pump for performance reasons at the suggestion of many people in this forum but I am wondering if it might also make filter changing and air purging a heck of a lot easier since there would be positive pressure coming from the fuel tank rather than a vacuum?


You got it! This is another advantage to having a lift pump installed. I'm planning on the in-tank stealth pump pioneered by gmctd.

- Chris
Author:  RTStabler51 [ Wed Feb 06, 2008 9:37 am ]
Post subject: 
be careful with the bleeder screw its very sensitive
Author:  bugnout [ Wed Feb 06, 2008 10:40 am ]
Post subject: 
I added the bleeder valve kit from lubrication specialists. Really makes bleeding easier

http://www.lubricationspecialist.com/front/shop.aspx?catid=16&parentid=0
Author:  Cowcatcher [ Wed Feb 06, 2008 12:29 pm ]
Post subject: 
Two things:

1) Some have found that the old "0" ring stuck in the head and ended up double ringed and drawing air. If you could not pump the air in 20 or so pumps you might have that or some similar problem like over tourqing the filter and deforming it to once again suck air.

2) It seems to me that someone here posted that the bleeder on the fuel head has a check valve unlike those on a brake system. Therefore no need to pump, tighten, release, loosen, pump again. It might alos be noted that the owners manual has no mention of the bleeder, suggesting that you just pump until firm, try starting, then pump until firm, repeating the process until clear. The fuel system is supposed to self purge the air thereafter. Of course if you have an air leak that will never happen.
Author:  KeighJeigh [ Wed Feb 06, 2008 1:52 pm ]
Post subject: 
Cowcatcher wrote:
Two things:

1) Some have found that the old "0" ring stuck in the head and ended up double ringed and drawing air. If you could not pump the air in 20 or so pumps you might have that or some similar problem like over tourqing the filter and deforming it to once again suck air.

2) It seems to me that someone here posted that the bleeder on the fuel head has a check valve unlike those on a brake system. Therefore no need to pump, tighten, release, loosen, pump again. It might alos be noted that the owners manual has no mention of the bleeder, suggesting that you just pump until firm, try starting, then pump until firm, repeating the process until clear. The fuel system is supposed to self purge the air thereafter. Of course if you have an air leak that will never happen.


The O ring did not stick in the head but I could see how it easily could. It was very difficult to keep it seated properly since it wanted to pop out of it's groove in the filter as I spun the filter trying to get it to catch the threads on the filter head.
It seems to start and run fine this morning but the prime pump only works if I start the engine, then stop it, then pump with the bleeder closed then open the bleeder, pump until the air clears, then close it, start the engine and do the whole process over again. Doing this a 12,560 times last night seemed to get most of the air out of the system - but there is still a bit in there although not enough to affect performance or cause hard starts. The prime pump does not do anything by itself with either the bleeder open or closed - it never did during this entire process. The only way I got the prime pump to firm up (and thus indicate it had fuel in it) was to have the running engine pull fuel into it. Otherwise, I pumped until hell froze over twice and absolutely nothing happened. Once there was fuel inside it, it then did clear the air as I pumped, but only once there was fuel in it....which seems rather silly.
Author:  KeighJeigh [ Wed Feb 06, 2008 1:58 pm ]
Post subject: 
chrispitude wrote:
KeighJeigh wrote:
I was thinking of installing a lift pump for performance reasons at the suggestion of many people in this forum but I am wondering if it might also make filter changing and air purging a heck of a lot easier since there would be positive pressure coming from the fuel tank rather than a vacuum?


You got it! This is another advantage to having a lift pump installed. I'm planning on the in-tank stealth pump pioneered by gmctd.

- Chris


Some people have used the Fisher pump and located it just forward of the tank, but I like the idea of putting it into the tank to minimize any suction required.
* However, does the in-tank pump you are going to install allow fuel passage if it stops working?
* Also, I assume the in-tank version requires removal of the tank. Am I correct to assume this is a major pain in the asss?
* Can you place the pump properly so it pumps fuel down to the last drop in the tank?
* Do you need to cut the tank to get the pump into it or can it be installed through the level sending unit access?
Author:  KeighJeigh [ Wed Feb 06, 2008 2:40 pm ]
Post subject: 
Quote:
in-tank stealth pump pioneered by gmctd.

I Googled "gmctd" and found nothing. What does this stand for? Do you have a link for this company?
Author:  dgeist [ Wed Feb 06, 2008 2:42 pm ]
Post subject: 
KeighJeigh wrote:
Quote:
in-tank stealth pump pioneered by gmctd.

I Googled "gmctd" and found nothing. What does this stand for? Do you have a link for this company?


It's a handle of a frequent user on this board. His research is documented in the "it's 10.xx PM, do you know where X is" threads.
Author:  Cowcatcher [ Wed Feb 06, 2008 5:22 pm ]
Post subject: 
I changed my filter once and rather than bleed with the open closed method I used a brake bleeder cup that I had and put some diesel in it to keep air from sucking back. I did not take my hoses off and I did not prefill the filter. I only had to pump about 30 times to get fuel out of the bleeder then I closed the valve and pumped a few more times until firm.
Author:  KeighJeigh [ Fri Feb 08, 2008 12:12 am ]
Post subject: 
UPDATE:
After last night's fiasco with my wife's car I used Roland's advice and it worked great!
The plunger pump engaged right away so I could bleed the system and it started right up.

Here is specifically what I did:

1. Unplugged the leads
2. Unbolted the unit from the firewall.
3. Clamped the rubber hoses
4. Unscrewed the old filter
5. Swapped out the bottom water sensor
6. Filled the new filter with CLEAN fuel on the upstream (unfiltered) side
7. Put some lube on the gasket
8. Bolted it all back together again
9. Plunged and bled the air about 5 times
10. Started it up no problem. I then drove about 30 miles stopping from time to time in order to get the rest of the air out.

Thanks for all the great advice and info as usual!!

- Chris
Author:  Uffe [ Fri Feb 08, 2008 8:34 am ]
Post subject: 
That sounds mighty complicated. I can narrow it a bit for you.

1 ) Unplug sensor, heater element and rubber hoses
2 ) Unbolt fuel filter head
3 ) Unscrew old fuel filter, let the diesel fuel go into a waste oil thingy
4 ) Put new filter and gasket on the fuel filter head
5 ) Put all the stuff back on, connections etc.
6 ) Open bleeder screw
7 ) You need a friend for this: Force compressed air into the filler cap while you wait for fuel coming out of the bleeder hole and tighten the screw when appropriate
8 ) Pump the primer until new fuel filter is filled with clean diesel
Author:  retmil46 [ Fri Feb 08, 2008 2:18 pm ]
Post subject: 
If you get any kind of crud - ie, rust, dirt, etc, from a crappy tank of fuel - up inside of the primer pump such that the check valves can't seal, it won't work for squat. Been there, done that. That would explain a lot of the "I pumped for 2 hours and didn't get any fuel" stories.

Even with a dry empty filter and the bleeder screw wide open, if the primer pump is operating correctly you should have fuel squirting out inside of a half minute of pumping.
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