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Dead battery, Dead transmission?
http://www.lostjeeps.com/forum/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=29281		 Page 1 of 1
Author:  nix [ Thu Feb 07, 2008 2:07 pm ]
Post subject:  Dead battery, Dead transmission?
Hello all, my CRD started to act up yesterday. I had it parked on an incline in my parking garage for about 6 days with no use. Yesterday, I tried to start her up and she wouldn't start. It just "clicked" and the dash lights, etc were very very dim. (I left my Valentine One radar detector plugged in.. so I think this is the culprit) I tried to jump-start it with my other car but that did not work either. I decided to trickle charge the battery over night. This morning the battery looked like it was all juiced up. Hooked it back up, she started up immediately but the sound of the engine was different. (SGII showed proper voltage) I drove off after she warmed up (which took a LOT longer than normal). My ScanGauge II showed two codes P0700 and U0146 which I could not clear. The car had absolutely no power and would not shift higher than 3rd gear it seemed. I was cruising at 55 MPH at like 2700 RPM... no shift. I limped it back home and parked it. I also noticed that at a stand-still it didn't even have enough power to start rolling forward. The transmission clunked pretty hard when I put it in Reverse the first time this morning as well.

Any ideas? P0700 is Transmission control system (MIL request).. bad tranny control module? Is this becuase of the battery issues? I'm still covered by warranty but.. thought I would check here first so I can be more informed when I do so.

thanks!
Author:  gmctd [ Thu Feb 07, 2008 2:15 pm ]
Post subject: 
P0700 and U141, which is loss of communication, means TCM and ECM stopped talking for a bit - or a byte - so that's where you're at, for now

Disconnect the battery negative cable for a few seconds, replace, restart and note any differences - rite now you're in limp mode for some reason, of which low or dead battery can play a big part.
Author:  ATXKJ [ Thu Feb 07, 2008 3:59 pm ]
Post subject: 
If your still on the stock Optima - there have been several posts saying they are very sensitve to being totally discharged and about the battery charger for them. (If I can find some links I'll post them) - but it might be dead.

http://www.lostjeeps.com/forum/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?t=25811&highlight=optima
Author:  nursecosmo [ Thu Feb 07, 2008 5:22 pm ]
Post subject: 
a fuzz buster is what did my optima in as well. Once the battery discharges it will never hold a full charg again. The replacement has a much higher rateing though.
Author:  hatchetman [ Thu Feb 07, 2008 8:53 pm ]
Post subject: 
An totally discharged Optima must be recharged with a minimum of 7 AMPS. A battery charger designed for AGM batteries is what should be used. :evil:
Author:  nursecosmo [ Thu Feb 07, 2008 10:41 pm ]
Post subject: 
It doesn't matter what amperage the charger is once the OE optimas loose their charge they are shot. apparently DCX used a custom built red top for the CRDs. It had a lower CCA and AH as well as fewer CC than the standard red top sold in stores.
Author:  nix [ Sun Feb 10, 2008 10:24 am ]
Post subject: 
Well, I will throw this out there and see what you all think. Yesterday I finally had time to look again at the CRD. I un-hooked the battery for about a half hour then re-hooked it back up to see if it was still in limp mode and the codes were displayed. Only... this time.. I un-hooked my ScanGauge II before I plugged the battery back up. Can you believe it... it started right up, no CELs, no transmission clunks and I drove it for about 1.5 hours w/o a single problem! I wonder if having a ScanGauge II hooked up when one restores power causes the P0700? There have been threads that suggest the SGII tries to "take over" or "interrupts" the chain of communication on the bus.. Maybe this was the problem I experienced? I'm not too sure I want to investigate this much further.. as that Limp mode scared me.

Oh, and yes, you can trickle charge your optima if it's not fully 100% completely drained. Mine still had barely any juice in it and is just fine now.
Author:  gmctd [ Sun Feb 10, 2008 1:27 pm ]
Post subject: 
Sure hope you guys are charging the batterys with the negative post disconnected - a reduced-voltage battery could have a highly resistive cell, such that full charger voltage would be applied across the computer modules, which have a keep-alive voltage applied even when the IGN key is OFF - 18v on a 12v circuit will let all the magic smoke out - then the computer won't compute
Author:  nix [ Sun Feb 10, 2008 3:19 pm ]
Post subject: 
I physically removed the Optima battery from my CRD and brought the battery to my bench (about 100 feet away) and trickle-charged it there. No chance of me frying the ecu. But.. your point is very well taken!
Author:  nursecosmo [ Sun Feb 10, 2008 10:22 pm ]
Post subject: 
Which brand of charger charges at 18 volts?
Author:  Goglio704 [ Mon Feb 11, 2008 12:51 am ]
Post subject: 
None of them are supposed to, but a cheap charger combined with a battery that doesn't want to take a charge, could be trouble.
Author:  gmctd [ Mon Feb 11, 2008 2:30 am ]
Post subject: 
All of them - measure yours, open circuit, for a shocker - FYI, you cannot charge a 12.6v battery with a 12.6v source - ain't gonna happen - leastways not more'n a few milliamps, and that's not even a trickle charge - if ya really want a cardiac moment, measure the normal 10a charge postion open-ckt, then switch to the 50a START position - it ain't a pretty sight for a 12v EFI system that fore-cautions against casual possession and use of battery chargers .

And, which is why glow plugs should never be tested with an open-ckt battery charger - put power to the gp, it should glow from the middle to the tip within 5secs - sure, they work fine for the test, but as the test also burned the element open, they become cold-emitting glowless plugs
Author:  nursecosmo [ Mon Feb 11, 2008 11:42 am ]
Post subject: 
My cheap old walmart charger mesures 13.9V at the 50amp position and 13.3 at 10 amp and trickle. I'm not too woried about shorting my computer out because the alternator charges at 14 volts and 160? amps. Any charger that puts out 18 volts is malfunctioning and should not be used on any 12 volt battery.
Author:  gmctd [ Mon Feb 11, 2008 3:25 pm ]
Post subject: 
Regulated output to 13.9v is fine - point being to test it B4 use, as even hi-dollar regulated versions are subject to failure - many cheap ones did not have luxury of regulation, using increased windings\voltage for higher charge currents

Most modern cheapies have IC regulators, now that China has gotten into the game - I'd certainly trust one of those rather than the middle-eastern\eastern versions from the '80's-'90s, but they still fail, and you'd never know it unless failure is short to ground
Author:  dritchie [ Tue Feb 12, 2008 12:45 pm ]
Post subject: 
nix wrote:
Well, I will throw this out there and see what you all think. Yesterday I finally had time to look again at the CRD. I un-hooked the battery for about a half hour then re-hooked it back up to see if it was still in limp mode and the codes were displayed. Only... this time.. I un-hooked my ScanGauge II before I plugged the battery back up. Can you believe it... it started right up, no CELs, no transmission clunks and I drove it for about 1.5 hours w/o a single problem! I wonder if having a ScanGauge II hooked up when one restores power causes the P0700? There have been threads that suggest the SGII tries to "take over" or "interrupts" the chain of communication on the bus.. Maybe this was the problem I experienced? I'm not too sure I want to investigate this much further.. as that Limp mode scared me.

Oh, and yes, you can trickle charge your optima if it's not fully 100% completely drained. Mine still had barely any juice in it and is just fine now.



Ya know, I've wondered about that too. I had my scan gauge hooked up one weekend (left hooked up) On the way home the sound out of the radio stopped, just static, cd too, then my windows went weired. I thought maybe the scan gauge messed with the BCM. All works good now though.

Dave
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