LOST JEEPS :: View topic - Diesel 62 cents highr than RUG !

Well now, let's just do the math here and not merely go into hysteria, ok?

So, 62 cents is 19% of the RUG price of $3.20 here . . . so what's the problem? You get 30% better mileage than the same vehicle on gas, but you pay 19% more per gallon, leaving you with a net savings of about 11%.

All bets are off, of course, if your alternative transportation is a gasser that gets better than 28 mpg.

I just picked up a libby yesterday, and FREAKED OUT :shock:

when I saw the price for diesel at a sunoco station here $3.95
and gas is $3.19. I don't live in New York , I'm in NE PA. I guess I rationalize it by figuring a gas liberty would be getting 15-20 mpg. All in all over the long run I'm better off. I Hope!

Coal Cracker wrote:

I just picked up a libby yesterday, and FREAKED OUT :shock:

Where are ya, Coal Cracker? We're in the Saylorsburg/Stroudsburg area.

- Chris

clackclack wrote: It takes about 25% more oil to make a gallon of diesel fuel than a gallon of gas. So, if you figure you pay ~15% premium... make some assumptions about light sweet crude oil (the commodity) as a $% of gross retail cost (i.e.; back out margin's, refining, tax, etc...). Bad news, since Diesel uses more crude, as crude $'s go up and become a larger % of gross retail cost, the delta between gas and diesel should theoretically increase. Personally, I believe, as the carbon market matures, we (diesel consumers) should be given a break since we produce comparatively less carbon (green house gas). Wouldn't it be great if we got a carbon credit at the pump to help offset the higher production cost (e.g.; refining and crude).

It takes about 25% more oil to make a gallon of diesel fuel than a gallon of gas. So, if you figure you pay ~15% premium... make some assumptions about light sweet crude oil (the commodity) as a $% of gross retail cost (i.e.; back out margin's, refining, tax, etc...). Bad news, since Diesel uses more crude, as crude $'s go up and become a larger % of gross retail cost, the delta between gas and diesel should theoretically increase. Personally, I believe, as the carbon market matures, we (diesel consumers) should be given a break since we produce comparatively less carbon (green house gas). Wouldn't it be great if we got a carbon credit at the pump to help offset the higher production cost (e.g.; refining and crude)...

clackclack wrote:

Sorry, but no.

I'm not sure where you got that information from, but it smacks of the anti-diesel lobby, as that is the exact kind of crap they spew.

Crude oil is refined by heating in a column and waiting for the separation of layers. Hence why diesel is referred to as a "middle distillate" b/c it comes out from the middle of the column, heavier oil is below it, Kerosene is above it, gasoline is above that. As for the amounts... Not so much. Diesel is EASIER to refine than gasoline, and maintains more of the source hydrocarbon chains (and more volume by extension) than gasoline does.

Granted this explanation is extremely simplified, but it gets the general point across: As diesel is closer to the source material, it is easier to manufacture, and retains more volume b/c less needs to be removed to reach that final product.

I have seen postings extremely similar to yours in the last few days on several different alternative fuel or diesel forums. I would think there is a concerted effort to defame diesel engines just as they are regaining popularity and the future of this country might be one with less fuel usage... But then that would make me a conspiracy theorist.

It does make one wonder however... How far would the oil industry go? Taking back all the EV-1 cars and destroying them b/c they could put a big dent in oil... Defaming diesel for similar reasons... Constantly talking about "gas to liquid" and "gassification" of everything under the sun... Except that none of these products will be commercially available anytime soon... Defaming biodiesel from waste sources along with any other alternative fuel option as "unable to replace ALL of our needs, so let's not do it at all" kind of talk...

It certainly makes you think.

Author:	kjfishman [ Thu Feb 28, 2008 6:36 pm ]
Post subject:	Diesel 62 cents highr than RUG !
I have been driving our car and don't drive the Jeep unless I need to haul something or I am going fishing. Is there that much difference everywhere?

Author:	Dave08 [ Thu Feb 28, 2008 6:39 pm ]
Post subject:
gas 3.19, diesel 3:76 ( one place still down at 3.29) north central IL

Author:	crd liberty [ Thu Feb 28, 2008 6:40 pm ]
Post subject:
http://autos.msn.com/everyday/GasStatio ... &x=14&y=10 Down here Reg 3.16 Diesel 3.60 Check out the above site, put in your zip, good to go. Steve

Author:	litton [ Thu Feb 28, 2008 7:52 pm ]
Post subject:
I compare to mid-grade which my GC likes, so the delta is closer to $0.30/gal. Figured out that driving our CRD makes us money each month and the diesel premium was long ago paid off. I'm a happy camper.

Author:	naturist [ Thu Feb 28, 2008 9:28 pm ]
Post subject:
Well now, let's just do the math here and not merely go into hysteria, ok? So, 62 cents is 19% of the RUG price of $3.20 here . . . so what's the problem? You get 30% better mileage than the same vehicle on gas, but you pay 19% more per gallon, leaving you with a net savings of about 11%. All bets are off, of course, if your alternative transportation is a gasser that gets better than 28 mpg.

LOST JEEPS http://www.lostjeeps.com/forum/phpBB3/

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Author:	DarbyWalters [ Thu Feb 28, 2008 9:41 pm ]
Post subject:
RUG $2.97-$3.05 DIESEL $3.29-$3.45 But I just bought a Lambretta DUE 50 2 Stroke Scooter and got 114.4 MPG Figure it bumps my overall average to 65 MPG or better average w/the 2

Author:	warp2diesel [ Thu Feb 28, 2008 10:17 pm ]
Post subject:	Diesel Vs Reg
In Iowa it was $2.95 reg and $3.52 for diesel. Here in western suburbs of Chicago area $3.09 Reg $3.75 Diesel. If you go factor in higher efficiency of our diesels using a very conservative 30% figure, $3.00 reg would equal $3.90 diesel. Part of the market excuse for higher than gasoline prices on diesel is the competition from home heating oil. Come spring it will be the farmers using diesel in their tractors. Other factors are the amount of what would naturally become diesel gets turned into gasoline by catalytic cracking. Gassers should pay extra for this. Another market excuse is that the refiners want to recover the cost of the equipment used to bubble hydrogen through the LSD and convert it into ULSD by stripping off the sulfur and forming H2S. The last market excuse I can think of is the cost of the Hydrogen made mostly from methane, that is used to strip out the sulfur. Of course we all know that when oil hits $150.00 a 44 gallon barrel there will be an abundant supply that will last for a long time. To make things even better, all the urea added into the exhaust along with compact florescent light bulbs will fix Global Warming in the nick of time Steve

Author:	retmil46 [ Fri Feb 29, 2008 3:24 am ]
Post subject:
Yep, oil hit over $103 a barrel today. That's after US crude inventories went up for the 7th straight week, and gasoline inventories hit a FOURTEEN YEAR HIGH!!! OPEC said there's no need to raise production because there's a supply glut on the global market. They said the prices were due to nothing other than big money hedge funds trying to make a killing in oil futures. Even Goldman Sachs, the people that wrote "Shorting Stocks 101", say there's no reason for oil to be higher than $80/barrel at most. "Free market economy" my stupid - this is nothing more than robbery.

Author:	007husky [ Fri Feb 29, 2008 8:49 am ]
Post subject:
3.999 = 4 bucks (@$#%s) at my local station aww ! my cursing is censored

Author:	kjfishman [ Fri Feb 29, 2008 10:34 am ]
Post subject:
naturist wrote: Well now, let's just do the math here and not merely go into hysteria, ok? So, 62 cents is 19% of the RUG price of $3.20 here . . . so what's the problem? You get 30% better mileage than the same vehicle on gas, but you pay 19% more per gallon, leaving you with a net savings of about 11%. All bets are off, of course, if your alternative transportation is a gasser that gets better than 28 mpg. Yes the 99 Infinity I30 gets 28 to 30 if you keep your foot out of it. I have to use cruise control to contain my desire to go fast.

Author:	warp2diesel [ Fri Feb 29, 2008 11:10 am ]
Post subject:	One thing to consider about Gasser vs Diesel
Bragging gassers and Hybrid owners measure their fuel economy under ideal conditions and ignore the lousy fuel economy they get under urban conditions. Since us diesel owners have good fuel economy in our blood, we tend to be more honest in what we get and report our figures under reasonable conditions that we truthfully detail, like towing a 5,000 lb trailer going east on I80 at 60mph. Bragging Hybrid owners and gassers on the other hand will report what they got driving from Love Land Pass, CO to Denver International Airport at 3:00 AM @ 60f with a 40 MPH tail wind as their typical over all mileage. Steve

Author:	Coal Cracker [ Fri Feb 29, 2008 6:24 pm ]
Post subject:
I just picked up a libby yesterday, and FREAKED OUT when I saw the price for diesel at a sunoco station here $3.95 and gas is $3.19. I don't live in New York , I'm in NE PA. I guess I rationalize it by figuring a gas liberty would be getting 15-20 mpg. All in all over the long run I'm better off. I Hope!

Author:	GilaMonster [ Sat Mar 01, 2008 9:54 pm ]
Post subject:
darn shame they keep jacking up diesel over RUG, I guess the general consumer just does not get that almost everything they purchase is moved on diesel in some form, and that the price of their commodities will reflect the increases.

Author:	chrispitude [ Sat Mar 01, 2008 10:06 pm ]
Post subject:
Coal Cracker wrote: I just picked up a libby yesterday, and FREAKED OUT when I saw the price for diesel at a sunoco station here $3.95 and gas is $3.19. I don't live in New York , I'm in NE PA. I guess I rationalize it by figuring a gas liberty would be getting 15-20 mpg. All in all over the long run I'm better off. I Hope! Where are ya, Coal Cracker? We're in the Saylorsburg/Stroudsburg area. - Chris

Author:	rjmaype [ Sat Mar 01, 2008 11:10 pm ]
Post subject:	Gas Liberty mph
Coal Cracker- My wife wrecked a 2004 Liberty and that is how I got the CRD for her. My best fuel mileage ever in the gasser was 18 mpg, only two times. It ran at 14-16 mpg most of its life. I am happy at 23-27 mpg in the CRD until diesel is 150% mogas price.

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Author:	Coal Cracker [ Sun Mar 02, 2008 12:02 am ]
Post subject:
chrispitude wrote: Coal Cracker wrote: I just picked up a libby yesterday, and FREAKED OUT when I saw the price for diesel at a sunoco station here $3.95 and gas is $3.19. I don't live in New York , I'm in NE PA. I guess I rationalize it by figuring a gas liberty would be getting 15-20 mpg. All in all over the long run I'm better off. I Hope! Where are ya, Coal Cracker? We're in the Saylorsburg/Stroudsburg area. - Chris I'm in Weatherly, between Jim Thorpe And Hazleton.

Author:	clackclack [ Sun Mar 02, 2008 1:03 am ]
Post subject:
It takes about 25% more oil to make a gallon of diesel fuel than a gallon of gas. So, if you figure you pay ~15% premium... make some assumptions about light sweet crude oil (the commodity) as a $% of gross retail cost (i.e.; back out margin's, refining, tax, etc...). Bad news, since Diesel uses more crude, as crude $'s go up and become a larger % of gross retail cost, the delta between gas and diesel should theoretically increase. Personally, I believe, as the carbon market matures, we (diesel consumers) should be given a break since we produce comparatively less carbon (green house gas). Wouldn't it be great if we got a carbon credit at the pump to help offset the higher production cost (e.g.; refining and crude)...

Author:	blake1827 [ Sun Mar 02, 2008 3:11 am ]
Post subject:
Quote: clackclack wrote: It takes about 25% more oil to make a gallon of diesel fuel than a gallon of gas. So, if you figure you pay ~15% premium... make some assumptions about light sweet crude oil (the commodity) as a $% of gross retail cost (i.e.; back out margin's, refining, tax, etc...). Bad news, since Diesel uses more crude, as crude $'s go up and become a larger % of gross retail cost, the delta between gas and diesel should theoretically increase. Personally, I believe, as the carbon market matures, we (diesel consumers) should be given a break since we produce comparatively less carbon (green house gas). Wouldn't it be great if we got a carbon credit at the pump to help offset the higher production cost (e.g.; refining and crude). I would like to see more info backing this up, it was my understanding that diesel was a by product of refining crude, and most if not all refineries in this country focus their refineries to produce as much gasoline as possible, I will have to look this up another time because it's very late. I believe it is mentioned in my post from a Popular Mechanic's/Science article I posted mid Dec. '07...

Author:	geordi [ Sun Mar 02, 2008 4:09 am ]
Post subject:
clackclack wrote: It takes about 25% more oil to make a gallon of diesel fuel than a gallon of gas. So, if you figure you pay ~15% premium... make some assumptions about light sweet crude oil (the commodity) as a $% of gross retail cost (i.e.; back out margin's, refining, tax, etc...). Bad news, since Diesel uses more crude, as crude $'s go up and become a larger % of gross retail cost, the delta between gas and diesel should theoretically increase. Personally, I believe, as the carbon market matures, we (diesel consumers) should be given a break since we produce comparatively less carbon (green house gas). Wouldn't it be great if we got a carbon credit at the pump to help offset the higher production cost (e.g.; refining and crude)... Sorry, but no. I'm not sure where you got that information from, but it smacks of the anti-diesel lobby, as that is the exact kind of crap they spew. Crude oil is refined by heating in a column and waiting for the separation of layers. Hence why diesel is referred to as a "middle distillate" b/c it comes out from the middle of the column, heavier oil is below it, Kerosene is above it, gasoline is above that. As for the amounts... Not so much. Diesel is EASIER to refine than gasoline, and maintains more of the source hydrocarbon chains (and more volume by extension) than gasoline does. Granted this explanation is extremely simplified, but it gets the general point across: As diesel is closer to the source material, it is easier to manufacture, and retains more volume b/c less needs to be removed to reach that final product. I have seen postings extremely similar to yours in the last few days on several different alternative fuel or diesel forums. I would think there is a concerted effort to defame diesel engines just as they are regaining popularity and the future of this country might be one with less fuel usage... But then that would make me a conspiracy theorist. It does make one wonder however... How far would the oil industry go? Taking back all the EV-1 cars and destroying them b/c they could put a big dent in oil... Defaming diesel for similar reasons... Constantly talking about "gas to liquid" and "gassification" of everything under the sun... Except that none of these products will be commercially available anytime soon... Defaming biodiesel from waste sources along with any other alternative fuel option as "unable to replace ALL of our needs, so let's not do it at all" kind of talk... It certainly makes you think.

Author:	Sir Sam [ Sun Mar 02, 2008 4:40 am ]
Post subject:
geordi wrote: clackclack wrote: It takes about 25% more oil to make a gallon of diesel fuel than a gallon of gas. So, if you figure you pay ~15% premium... make some assumptions about light sweet crude oil (the commodity) as a $% of gross retail cost (i.e.; back out margin's, refining, tax, etc...). Bad news, since Diesel uses more crude, as crude $'s go up and become a larger % of gross retail cost, the delta between gas and diesel should theoretically increase. Personally, I believe, as the carbon market matures, we (diesel consumers) should be given a break since we produce comparatively less carbon (green house gas). Wouldn't it be great if we got a carbon credit at the pump to help offset the higher production cost (e.g.; refining and crude)... Sorry, but no. I'm not sure where you got that information from, but it smacks of the anti-diesel lobby, as that is the exact kind of crap they spew. Crude oil is refined by heating in a column and waiting for the separation of layers. Hence why diesel is referred to as a "middle distillate" b/c it comes out from the middle of the column, heavier oil is below it, Kerosene is above it, gasoline is above that. As for the amounts... Not so much. Diesel is EASIER to refine than gasoline, and maintains more of the source hydrocarbon chains (and more volume by extension) than gasoline does. Granted this explanation is extremely simplified, but it gets the general point across: As diesel is closer to the source material, it is easier to manufacture, and retains more volume b/c less needs to be removed to reach that final product. I have seen postings extremely similar to yours in the last few days on several different alternative fuel or diesel forums. I would think there is a concerted effort to defame diesel engines just as they are regaining popularity and the future of this country might be one with less fuel usage... But then that would make me a conspiracy theorist. It does make one wonder however... How far would the oil industry go? Taking back all the EV-1 cars and destroying them b/c they could put a big dent in oil... Defaming diesel for similar reasons... Constantly talking about "gas to liquid" and "gassification" of everything under the sun... Except that none of these products will be commercially available anytime soon... Defaming biodiesel from waste sources along with any other alternative fuel option as "unable to replace ALL of our needs, so let's not do it at all" kind of talk... It certainly makes you think. Resistance is futile.