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Had to give in... Frankenlift
http://www.lostjeeps.com/forum/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=30181		 Page 1 of 2
Author:  Cowpie1 [ Wed Mar 05, 2008 5:13 pm ]
Post subject:  Had to give in... Frankenlift
Got so sick of pushing snow with the front skid plate. Also, living on rural gravel roads, the center pile of gravel that the road grader would leave on the first pass would bang against the skid plate.

Decided I had had enough! Ordered the CRD Frankenlift II. Even the wife was wanting the Libby lifted after the mess we had for snow this winter. Sure is a cool thing when the wife is totally behind a guy doing modifications to the Jeep!

May take a bit of a hit with MPG's, but you have to sacrifice sometimes. Now for tires....

Was thinking of 245/75 16's, BFG A/T's. Want a little more than the stock, but not trying to max out what can put under the Libby. Does this size sound good? Will appreciate any recommends. The Libby will do a lot of on road. It will only see offroad in cornfields, cow pastures, gravel roads and snow drifts.
Author:  MightyCRD [ Wed Mar 05, 2008 5:18 pm ]
Post subject: 
The only complaint I have about the BFGs in that size is that you can only get them in a load range E - that's what you need on a 1-ton!!! I would think that you would sacrifice some ride quality and MPGs with them, but I'm thinking about going the same route anyway. Buddy of mine has a Rubicon with those exact tires and it rides pretty good - but they cost $900 installed from Discount! :shock:

I think that the 245/75s are about the biggest you can run without any other mods besides the Frankenlift - you *might* have some rubbing at full lock depending ...

Darby is running a 245/70/16 and the pics look pretty good - they are about 3/4 inch shorter than the 245/75s though.
Author:  nix [ Wed Mar 05, 2008 5:32 pm ]
Post subject: 
I run 245/75/16 BFG A/Ts with my 2.5" lift and I get slight rubbing at full-lock. (I can only hear it in Reverse.. sounds horrible but it's not too bad) Since the Frankenlift is not as tall a lift, I would bet you will have more rubbing that I have. I haven't noticed any negative ride quality with the BFGs over the stock tires.
Author:  dgeist [ Wed Mar 05, 2008 5:46 pm ]
Post subject: 
MightyCRD wrote:
Darby is running a 245/70/16 and the pics look pretty good - they are about 3/4 inch shorter than the 245/75s though.


Nah, I think he runs 235/75R16. They're much less common in the big brands but are a good option if you want NO rubbing.Slightly smaller diameter than the 245/75's (you do the math).

Dan
Author:  ATXKJ [ Wed Mar 05, 2008 7:24 pm ]
Post subject: 
I've got 245/75/16's on a Daystar 2 1/2" - you might scuff the pinch weld - depending on the tire tread - I suspect the BFG's will hit - if so you need to bend over the pinch weld
http://www.lostjeeps.com/forum/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?t=27369&highlight=pinch+weld

also on the backspacing - with stock tires you may hit the tie rod on sharp turns (I've got Rubicon wheels -helps on the tie rods - may make the pinch weld worse - just check clearance with whatever you get)
Author:  gmctd [ Wed Mar 05, 2008 7:57 pm ]
Post subject: 
The '06's with ESP are likely gonna have problems with larger tire diameters, as the BCM\TCM\ECM is expecting specific rolling ratios from the factory sizing - there is a reflash to patch that problem in the '06's.
Author:  CATCRD [ Wed Mar 05, 2008 8:17 pm ]
Post subject: 
gmctd wrote:
The '06's with ESP are likely gonna have problems with larger tire diameters, as the BCM\TCM\ECM is expecting specific rolling ratios from the factory sizing - there is a reflash to patch that problem in the '06's.


How does the ECM know that you changed tire diameter if you change all four at once?
Author:  tjkj2002 [ Wed Mar 05, 2008 9:02 pm ]
Post subject: 
CATCRD wrote:
gmctd wrote:
The '06's with ESP are likely gonna have problems with larger tire diameters, as the BCM\TCM\ECM is expecting specific rolling ratios from the factory sizing - there is a reflash to patch that problem in the '06's.


How does the ECM know that you changed tire diameter if you change all four at once?
Speed sensors(aka ABS sensors) and the tranny input and output speed sensors.
Author:  CATCRD [ Wed Mar 05, 2008 9:44 pm ]
Post subject: 
tjkj2002 wrote:
CATCRD wrote:
gmctd wrote:
The '06's with ESP are likely gonna have problems with larger tire diameters, as the BCM\TCM\ECM is expecting specific rolling ratios from the factory sizing - there is a reflash to patch that problem in the '06's.


How does the ECM know that you changed tire diameter if you change all four at once?
Speed sensors(aka ABS sensors) and the tranny input and output speed sensors.


Nope. Nothing connecting the abs sensors to the tranny input/output changes with tires.
Author:  tjkj2002 [ Wed Mar 05, 2008 10:07 pm ]
Post subject: 
CATCRD wrote:
tjkj2002 wrote:
CATCRD wrote:
gmctd wrote:
The '06's with ESP are likely gonna have problems with larger tire diameters, as the BCM\TCM\ECM is expecting specific rolling ratios from the factory sizing - there is a reflash to patch that problem in the '06's.


How does the ECM know that you changed tire diameter if you change all four at once?
Speed sensors(aka ABS sensors) and the tranny input and output speed sensors.


Nope. Nothing connecting the abs sensors to the tranny input/output changes with tires.
The BCM(speedo) and PCM/TCM(tranny input/output speed sensors and the ABS sensors from the BCM to control shifting,timing,and fuel).It aslo will use the crank sensor to determine if the speedo compared to the tranny sensors are in the correct rpm range.OBDII uses multiple sensors compared to other sensors to operate.Changing tire size and not reprogramming for it will not only effect the speedo/odometer and mpg's but it will also effect how the tranny shifts because you are in confusing the BCM,TCM,and PCM from the sensors reporting rpm's where there not supposed to be compared to the PCM's program.

My tranny shifted like s$%t until I got the PCM reprgramed for my tire size increase(even before my gear ratio change,had to reprogram for that also).
Author:  CATCRD [ Wed Mar 05, 2008 10:31 pm ]
Post subject: 
tjkj2002 wrote:
CATCRD wrote:
tjkj2002 wrote:
CATCRD wrote:
gmctd wrote:
The '06's with ESP are likely gonna have problems with larger tire diameters, as the BCM\TCM\ECM is expecting specific rolling ratios from the factory sizing - there is a reflash to patch that problem in the '06's.


How does the ECM know that you changed tire diameter if you change all four at once?
Speed sensors(aka ABS sensors) and the tranny input and output speed sensors.


Nope. Nothing connecting the abs sensors to the tranny input/output changes with tires.
The BCM(speedo) and PCM/TCM(tranny input/output speed sensors and the ABS sensors from the BCM to control shifting,timing,and fuel).It aslo will use the crank sensor to determine if the speedo compared to the tranny sensors are in the correct rpm range.OBDII uses multiple sensors compared to other sensors to operate.Changing tire size and not reprogramming for it will not only effect the speedo/odometer and mpg's but it will also effect how the tranny shifts because you are in confusing the BCM,TCM,and PCM from the sensors reporting rpm's where there not supposed to be compared to the PCM's program.

My tranny shifted like s$%t until I got the PCM reprgramed for my tire size increase(even before my gear ratio change,had to reprogram for that also).


That doesn't make any sense man. From the crank sensor all the way through the drivetrain to the abs sensors, nothing changes relative to each other when you change tire size. Your car has no idea what the true road speed is, so it can't know you've changed tire size. That's the whole reason your speedometer goes off, the computer continues to report road speed AS IF tire diameter was unchanged. The only thing it could notice is the slower acceleration from bigger heavier tires. This could trigger the grade logic some cars use in response to load, but it wouldn't know if the change was due to tire size, carrying/pulling a heavy load, or just traveling uphill! Unless your car is talking to a GPS satellite, it can't know your tire diameter changed.

I agree that changing your axle ratios would confuse the computer, because the relationship between wheel speed sensors and trans output speed sensor is changed. You need a sensor before and after the changed component to know that it has changed.
Author:  DarbyWalters [ Wed Mar 05, 2008 11:19 pm ]
Post subject: 
235/75/16s are 29.84" (basically a 30" tire). They only weight about 3.5#s more than stock rubber which helps mileage, braking and acceleration. There is no rubbing and the pinch weld does not have to be touched.

Hercules and Toyo have good ATs in that size.

Image
Author:  tjkj2002 [ Wed Mar 05, 2008 11:44 pm ]
Post subject: 
CATCRD wrote:
tjkj2002 wrote:
CATCRD wrote:
tjkj2002 wrote:
CATCRD wrote:
gmctd wrote:
The '06's with ESP are likely gonna have problems with larger tire diameters, as the BCM\TCM\ECM is expecting specific rolling ratios from the factory sizing - there is a reflash to patch that problem in the '06's.


How does the ECM know that you changed tire diameter if you change all four at once?
Speed sensors(aka ABS sensors) and the tranny input and output speed sensors.


Nope. Nothing connecting the abs sensors to the tranny input/output changes with tires.
The BCM(speedo) and PCM/TCM(tranny input/output speed sensors and the ABS sensors from the BCM to control shifting,timing,and fuel).It aslo will use the crank sensor to determine if the speedo compared to the tranny sensors are in the correct rpm range.OBDII uses multiple sensors compared to other sensors to operate.Changing tire size and not reprogramming for it will not only effect the speedo/odometer and mpg's but it will also effect how the tranny shifts because you are in confusing the BCM,TCM,and PCM from the sensors reporting rpm's where there not supposed to be compared to the PCM's program.

My tranny shifted like s$%t until I got the PCM reprgramed for my tire size increase(even before my gear ratio change,had to reprogram for that also).


That doesn't make any sense man. From the crank sensor all the way through the drivetrain to the abs sensors, nothing changes relative to each other when you change tire size. Your car has no idea what the true road speed is, so it can't know you've changed tire size. That's the whole reason your speedometer goes off, the computer continues to report road speed AS IF tire diameter was unchanged. The only thing it could notice is the slower acceleration from bigger heavier tires. This could trigger the grade logic some cars use in response to load, but it wouldn't know if the change was due to tire size, carrying/pulling a heavy load, or just traveling uphill! Unless your car is talking to a GPS satellite, it can't know your tire diameter changed.

I agree that changing your axle ratios would confuse the computer, because the relationship between wheel speed sensors and trans output speed sensor is changed. You need a sensor before and after the changed component to know that it has changed.
Might want to read up on morden OBDII systems,no the BCM/TCM/PCM no the rael road speed but the differences in sensor reading will tell the computers,it may seem that it can't but it does.

Your vehicle may be tracked/talking with a GPS system,depended on your credit rating and how hard your bank has had repoeing vehicles you may have a hidden GPS system hooked into your electronics.I have installed many of thes units when I worked at a dealer when they sold cars to not the best credit poeple or when the bank told us to,amazing what those little thing can do.Sorry offtopic.
Author:  Reflex [ Thu Mar 06, 2008 12:10 am ]
Post subject: 
tjkj2002 wrote:
Your vehicle may be tracked/talking with a GPS system,depended on your credit rating and how hard your bank has had repoeing vehicles you may have a hidden GPS system hooked into your electronics.I have installed many of thes units when I worked at a dealer when they sold cars to not the best credit poeple or when the bank told us to,amazing what those little thing can do.Sorry offtopic.

Um, I want to know more about this. It would seemingly violate many state and possibly federal laws, if thats really happening I want to know. Not saying I doubt you, btw, I'm honestly curious.
Author:  tjkj2002 [ Thu Mar 06, 2008 12:17 am ]
Post subject: 
Reflex wrote:
tjkj2002 wrote:
Your vehicle may be tracked/talking with a GPS system,depended on your credit rating and how hard your bank has had repoeing vehicles you may have a hidden GPS system hooked into your electronics.I have installed many of thes units when I worked at a dealer when they sold cars to not the best credit poeple or when the bank told us to,amazing what those little thing can do.Sorry offtopic.

Um, I want to know more about this. It would seemingly violate many state and possibly federal laws, if thats really happening I want to know. Not saying I doubt you, btw, I'm honestly curious.
Some states it is legal for high risk auto loans,just a lowjack type of set-up that the buyer is not aware of or told about.It's only used if the vehicle needs to be repoed and is turned of(by remote signal) when paid off.It's a very small box with about 6 wires and can be hidden about anywhere,it's also made to look like a regular automotive part like a relay to help hide it's true apearance.

Though it has been a few years since I worked at a dealership so they may be illegal now,I don't now.
Author:  CATCRD [ Thu Mar 06, 2008 2:09 am ]
Post subject: 
Quote:
Might want to read up on morden OBDII systems,no the BCM/TCM/PCM no the rael road speed but the differences in sensor reading will tell the computers,it may seem that it can't but it does.


Could you edit that post for grammar? I can't really understand it. My point is, there are no sensor readings that change with tire diameter! If that were true why would your speedometer reading still be off? Wouldn't your computer be smart enough to know and calibrate itself? We both know it's not.

To know that something has changed, the computer has to compare two rotational values and decide that they are not in the same ratio as before. Tell me what sensor is between your abs wheel speed sensor and the pavement that would tell the computer something has changed. You might want to rethink what you were taught in ASE or wherever, because you either didn't hear it correctly, or someone's misleading you.

I totally believe you about the hidden locator system, btw.
Author:  gmctd [ Thu Mar 06, 2008 2:45 am ]
Post subject: 
Mostly all good input, and acceptable if we were driving trains on tracks, with only straight-line movement and solid axles.

A.) larger tires will cause more slip angle, output VSS to input VSS, also requiring more torque input, which ECM is ever sensitive to with resultant EMCC supervision, and

B.) the '06's have 4WABS with a tone sensor on each wheel hub, used for braking, traction control, etc in the ESP system ( '05's have RWAL brakes with a single sensor on the differential, and no ESP) - ECM\ABS\BCM\TCM each monitor some or all parts of those pulse inputs - won't take long for the ESP to start complaining at the change in parity first time the vehicle strays from a straight line - how do you exit your driveway?

C.) there is a TSB to cover that on the early '06's, also a procedure to disable\enable ESP as desired - it doesn't affect the ABS portion, however, so don't getcher hopes up, just yet, eh.....................
Author:  tjkj2002 [ Thu Mar 06, 2008 3:04 am ]
Post subject: 
gmctd wrote:
All good input, and acceptable if we were driving trains on tracks, with only straight-line movement and solid axles.

A.) larger tires will cause more slip angle, output VSS to input VSS, also requiring more torque input, which ECM is ever sensitive to with resultant EMCC supervision, and

B.) the '06's have 4WABS with a tone sensor on each wheel hub, used for braking, traction control, etc in the ESP system ( '05's have RWAL brakes with a single sensor on the differential, and no ESP) - ECM\ABS\BCM\TCM each monitor some or all parts of those pulse inputs - won't take long for the ESP to start complaining at the change in parity first time the vehicle strays from a straight line - how do you exit your driveway?

C.) there is a TSB to cover that on the early '06's, also a procedure to disable\enable ESP as desired - it doesn't affect the ABS portion, however, so don't getcher hopes up, just yet, eh.....................
Thank you,at least someone else understands all the OBDII junk and that a multitude of sensors will pick up on a changed tire size.
Author:  Uffe [ Thu Mar 06, 2008 3:35 am ]
Post subject: 
Ahhhh my 03 doesn't have that stuff in it. ESP and sensor heaven. I recently changed from stock to 235/75 R16.

It's got ABS and an auto transmission :D

I don't mind shifting points were changed by 3.4% (this is the change on the ODOmeter, finally the speedo is spot on - both measured with GPS)

Now the EVIC average MPG is working as well! :D The odo got raped but three (instant MPG, avg. MPG, speedo) other informations are now correct, ahhh ...

:lol:
Author:  tjkj2002 [ Thu Mar 06, 2008 5:07 am ]
Post subject: 
Uffe wrote:
Ahhhh my 03 doesn't have that stuff in it. ESP and sensor heaven. I recently changed from stock to 235/75 R16.

It's got ABS and an auto transmission :D

I don't mind shifting points were changed by 3.4% (this is the change on the ODOmeter, finally the speedo is spot on - both measured with GPS)

Now the EVIC average MPG is working as well! :D The odo got raped but three (instant MPG, avg. MPG, speedo) other informations are now correct, ahhh ...

:lol:
Small changes in tire hieght are not that big of a deal,most speedo's are off from the factory anyway.Doing a big jump like I did is very noticeable in the tranny shifting(went from 225/75's to 265/75's).
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