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Oil brand and type for first oil change
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Author:  BKH [ Sun Oct 30, 2005 7:21 pm ]
Post subject:  Oil brand and type for first oil change
A couple of questions about synthetic oil, etc.:

1. What brand of synthetic oil is good for this type of engine? This is my first diesel, but not my first turbo. I always preferred synthetic to hopefully avoid "coking" the turbo bearings

2. If I buy a car new, as I did this CRD, I always had the oil changed at around 1,000 miles. I always heard that was good to make sure any microscopic impurities from manufacturing could be removed before they did any damage. Most people think I'm nuts. Am I? Be honest, as I'd love to save the money when I take the Liberty in on Tuesday.

I'm taking it in because the latch for the back glass doesn't seem to be latching tight - it rattles and squeaks and doesn't want to let the glass go when I want to just open the glass part of the hatch. Thought I'd just get the oil changed while there....

Thanks for the advice.
Author:  grywlfbg [ Sun Oct 30, 2005 8:37 pm ]
Post subject:  oil stuff
1k miles is way too early. The early change interval is a holdover from the old days when engines weren't manufactured to as tight of tolerances are they are today. Back then you would get bits of metal swirling in the oil as the engine broke in. Those days are gone but that old mechanic's tale still permeates. The oil filter will grab any bits that are there. I'm going to change the oil at 5k for the first time and then prolly move to a 10k change interval. I'm going to use Amsoil Series 3000 (I think it's a 5W-40). Shell Rotella T full synth and Mobil 1 Truck and SUV (sometimes called Delvac) are also both highly recommended. There are a couple of oil threads on here already, browse through the old topics.

However, even though you're skipping the early change, do watch the level as diesels seem to use a little oil while they're breaking in so you'll likely need to add a quart or so before that 5k change.
Author:  spoonplugger1 [ Sun Oct 30, 2005 9:22 pm ]
Post subject: 
Mine was almost low a quart at 1000 than used none after that. If you drive in town or pull a load your oil change will be at 6000 miles as per the manual. 12000 if mostly highway driving light loaded. You can top off as needed with Mobil 5W40 as the 0W40 is hard to find. I too use Amsoil, if you look at the oil tests 0W40 is a mediocre oil at best. 5W40 is much better oil from just about anyone. Baldwin filters are a good filter to use, heavy duty construction, good drain back valve assy, good flow and filtering medium. A lot cheaper than the Mopar and a better filter.The drain plug is going to be a bear to get out, the oil filter will probably almost fall off on it's own.
I love my CRD. Runs much better now at 8000 than it did new.
Author:  retmil46 [ Tue Nov 01, 2005 2:19 am ]
Post subject: 
I changed my oil out at 950 miles, mainly because I wanted an oil that had the API ratings for use in a diesel engine inside the beast.

That 0W40 was downright nasty when it came out, even for a diesel. There was so much grit or whatever in the oil, I had to clean out the threads in the drain hole with a wire brush before I could get the plug to go back in! :shock:

Hey, it couldn't hurt to go ahead and change it at 1000 miles, might be a case like mine where for whatever reason there WAS some nasty stuff left sitting in the oil sump. IMHO, getting rid of that sorry 0W40 oil they put in it is reason enough.

Your vehicle, your call.
Author:  Majic [ Tue Nov 01, 2005 2:39 am ]
Post subject: 
True Grit

retmil46 wrote:
That 0W40 was downright nasty when it came out, even for a diesel. There was so much grit or whatever in the oil, I had to clean out the threads in the drain hole with a wire brush before I could get the plug to go back in!

Zounds! :shock:

Has anyone else seen anything like that come out of their CRD?

It sounds... unhealthy. :?
Author:  oldnavy [ Tue Nov 01, 2005 7:51 am ]
Post subject: 
retmil46 wrote:
I changed my oil out at 950 miles, mainly because I wanted an oil that had the API ratings for use in a diesel engine inside the beast.

That 0W40 was downright nasty when it came out, even for a diesel. There was so much grit or whatever in the oil, I had to clean out the threads in the drain hole with a wire brush before I could get the plug to go back in! :shock:

Hey, it couldn't hurt to go ahead and change it at 1000 miles, might be a case like mine where for whatever reason there WAS some nasty stuff left sitting in the oil sump. IMHO, getting rid of that sorry 0W40 oil they put in it is reason enough.

Your vehicle, your call.


Had what sounds like your problem once on a gasser that had 70,000 miles on the clock and it turned out I had an airbox leak and that was where the grit came from that was in the oil and all in the and around the lifter assembly on the head. I also saw this happen on a couple of diesel VW's that were running K&N air filters that had to have an adapter seal for the airbox and the seal wasn't seated properly. On one ocassion I saw a rebuilt MB diesel engine with this also and it was assumed it happened at the rebuild where dirt or grinding material was left in the engine. This is not oil related unless something had contamited the oil at the factory before it was added to the engine.
Author:  gsbrockman [ Tue Nov 01, 2005 4:16 pm ]
Post subject: 
Majic wrote:
True Grit

retmil46 wrote:
That 0W40 was downright nasty when it came out, even for a diesel. There was so much grit or whatever in the oil, I had to clean out the threads in the drain hole with a wire brush before I could get the plug to go back in!

Zounds! :shock:

Has anyone else seen anything like that come out of their CRD?

It sounds... unhealthy. :?


My oil was nasty....but not gritty.

http://kydtr.com/iboard/index.php?showtopic=5461

Greg
Author:  oldnavy [ Tue Nov 01, 2005 6:47 pm ]
Post subject: 
gsbrockman wrote:
Majic wrote:
True Grit

retmil46 wrote:
That 0W40 was downright nasty when it came out, even for a diesel. There was so much grit or whatever in the oil, I had to clean out the threads in the drain hole with a wire brush before I could get the plug to go back in!

Zounds! :shock:

Has anyone else seen anything like that come out of their CRD?

It sounds... unhealthy. :?


My oil was nasty....but not gritty.

http://kydtr.com/iboard/index.php?showtopic=5461

Greg

Newbie it's suppose to be black and nasty and if it ain't you got BIG problems. This is something you will put up with as long as you own a modern diesel. When we go to the ULSD (ultra Low Sulfur) next year it will ease up some, but not enough for you to tell. That's why yopu are given a very special spec for oils in these new diesels, and one big one is the ability to carry soot in the oil and not lt it build up on the innerds of the engine and form sludge.

You have a closed Crank Case Ventilation system with a with a EGR putting soot back into the engine. After you changed your oil it will turn black almost as soon as you start the engine if it's got an oil cooler for the turbo and engine, which I believe it does. My '83 MB diesel was like that from the day after it was new and the same way 22 years later when I sold it to a man in WI for $2600 that had never seen the car other then in pictures. Our '00 & '02 VW diesel's were the same by the way at turning black after oil change and just running the engine a minute for the oil to circ through the system which included the turbo & oil cooler.

The long time diesel owner will use gloves when changing oil to prevent what you have all over your hands in that picture. :) Bet you gave a lot of guys a giggle on that KY diesel forum. :lol:
Author:  gsbrockman [ Tue Nov 01, 2005 7:46 pm ]
Post subject: 
oldnavy wrote:
The long time diesel owner will use gloves when changing oil to prevent what you have all over your hands in that picture. :) Bet you gave a lot of guys a giggle on that KY diesel forum. :lol:


Gloves are for sissies and little girls to use in the winter months. I know almost all the guys over on kydtr and they're just a bunch of good ol' boys.....they'd agree, too, about the use of sissy gloves. I've been changing my own oil since I was 15 or earlier.....I'm now 41.....owned Cummins equipped RAM's since 1997.
Greg
Author:  CTKJ [ Tue Nov 01, 2005 8:12 pm ]
Post subject: 
I don't know if the Good Ol Boys are professional mechanics or not but I know people in the business absolutely would wear vinyl gloves. But for the everyday backyard do it yourselfer who cares!! :wink: :wink:
Author:  oldnavy [ Tue Nov 01, 2005 9:07 pm ]
Post subject: 
CTKJ wrote:
I don't know if the Good Ol Boys are professional mechanics or not but I know people in the business absolutely would wear vinyl gloves. But for the everyday backyard do it yourselfer who cares!! :wink: :wink:
Yes that pretty much true.

What I was making a point at was the guy that was changing his first EGR/CCV euipped diesel and panicing at the black and nasty oil.

Seems I was changing my oil a few years (20) before you gsbrockman and I still hate what the oil does to my hands and the nitriel gloves are a life saver.

Cancer was a common killer of the old machanics due to all the asbestos and oil exposure, they had high percentage like farmers of lates 40's to early 70's from all the chemicals they used.
Author:  Guest [ Wed Nov 02, 2005 8:30 am ]
Post subject: 
"That's why yopu are given a very special spec for oils in these new diesels, and one big one is the ability to carry soot in the oil and not lt it build up on the innerds of the engine and form sludge."



Too bad Jeep may have missed the boad on the correct oil spec. The Mobil 1 0W-40 Synthetic from the factory that came in my 2005 CRD does not meet the CI-4 or CI-4 Plus spec that is necessary to adequately carry the soot in the oil.

This weekend at around 1800 miles I'm switching over to Shell Rotella T 5W-40 Synthetic which does meet all the necessary specifications for closed system diesel engines. Then I'll follow the routine oil change schedule.
Author:  LibertyCRD [ Wed Nov 02, 2005 9:00 am ]
Post subject: 
Agreed....the reason to wear gloves when changing the oil (especially this synthetic diesel oil) is to avoid it soaking into your skin, and contaminating your body with chemicals that you can't even pronounce. I didn't know that the first time I changed the oil on this thing...but after I saw what it did to the concrete it dripped on, you better believe I'll be wearing gloves next time.

I'm switching to Shell Rotella 5W40 myself. The Mobil 1 5W40 @ $5.18/qt. is just ridiculous.
Author:  oldnavy [ Wed Nov 02, 2005 9:20 am ]
Post subject: 
alljeep wrote:
Too bad Jeep may have missed the boad on the correct oil spec. The Mobil 1 0W-40 Synthetic from the factory that came in my 2005 CRD does not meet the CI-4 or CI-4 Plus spec that is necessary to adequately carry the soot in the oil.

This weekend at around 1800 miles I'm switching over to Shell Rotella T 5W-40 Synthetic which does meet all the necessary specifications for closed system diesel engines. Then I'll follow the routine oil change schedule.
The Mobil 1 Truck & SUV oil (which is same oil as Delvac 1) 5w-40 has a better Novac and soot carrying rating then the Rotell T 5w-40 if I remember correctly, but not enough to make any real difference to our Jeeps on these short oil changes of 12k miles. I've looked at the spec's for both Mobil 1 0w-40 & the DELVAC 1 and the soot carring capabilities are not that far apart, the main difference was the 0w-40 had a greater high temp shear strength then the Delvac 1.

Myself I been thinking about using the Mobil 1 5w-40 in the CRD instead of the 0w-40 basically for the same reason of having greater soot carrying ability and it easier to find. One other reason for the 0w-40 was economy and easier starting in winter. Our Jeep is kept in a insulated and heated garaged and when started later in theday for the return home it is much warmer, we don't have many afternoons here that it's below freezing.

Sometimes I just want to scream "Motor oil is motor oil". :shock: :oops: :lol:

Forgot to mention that the Shell Rotella T is a class III oil (which is what any good minerial based oil is) and not a true synthetic as the Mobil 1 and Amsoil oils are.
Author:  gsbrockman [ Wed Nov 02, 2005 9:35 am ]
Post subject: 
alljeep wrote:
Too bad Jeep may have missed the boad on the correct oil spec. The Mobil 1 0W-40 Synthetic from the factory that came in my 2005 CRD does not meet the CI-4 or CI-4 Plus spec that is necessary to adequately carry the soot in the oil.


Someone here (or on another forum) did mention that the Mobil 1 0W40 was not being used in the '06 model CRD's.....anyone here with an '06 could check their manual and see what they're recommending now ?

Kinda makes me feel like I should drain the 0W40 outta my '05 and throw some 5W40 Rotella-T in it as well.....I already use the Rotella-T 5W40 in my 2003 Dodge RAM 2500 w/CTD.

Greg
Author:  retmil46 [ Wed Nov 02, 2005 11:21 am ]
Post subject: 
When I said the oil was downright nasty, even for a diesel, I WAS speaking comparitively with other EGR equipped diesels. I work at the Freightliner assembly plant in Cleveland NC, and have seen the oil that comes out of the newer Detroit Diesels that are EGR equipped and meet the latest EPA specs.

As far as the grit, oldnavy is right on the money. I checked the air filter and made sure it was seated properly when i found that crap coming out with the oil. I put it down to some leftover manufacturing crap and/or poor cleanliness control somewhere along the line. Hey, I work as a QC inspector at a truck manufacturing plant, I've seen some of the idiotic stuff that happens from time to time (thankfully very rare). Where you have people involved in the process, there's always the possibility of error.

As far as the as the API ratings, every truck, whether it's Cat, Detroit Diesel, Mercedes, or Cummins, gets 15w40 HDD oil, CI-4 rated coming out of the plant.
Author:  Guest [ Thu Nov 03, 2005 8:36 am ]
Post subject: 
gsbrockman wrote:
alljeep wrote:
Too bad Jeep may have missed the boad on the correct oil spec. The Mobil 1 0W-40 Synthetic from the factory that came in my 2005 CRD does not meet the CI-4 or CI-4 Plus spec that is necessary to adequately carry the soot in the oil.


Someone here (or on another forum) did mention that the Mobil 1 0W40 was not being used in the '06 model CRD's.....anyone here with an '06 could check their manual and see what they're recommending now ?

Kinda makes me feel like I should drain the 0W40 outta my '05 and throw some 5W40 Rotella-T in it as well.....I already use the Rotella-T 5W40 in my 2003 Dodge RAM 2500 w/CTD.

Greg




I drained my factory oil out last night at 1,750 miles on the ODO. Put on a new MOPAR oil filter and 7 quarts of the Shell Rotella T 5W-40 Synthetic to get to the max mark on the oil dipstick. It seems to run better, but doesn't everything feel that way after a fresh oil change... So, maybe in the long run this will help the soot issues, or maybe not. Either way it was nice to lie under the Jeep for awhile and just look around...
Author:  oldnavy [ Sun Nov 06, 2005 11:42 am ]
Post subject: 
Yes it is nice to lay under the truck to just look around and see what's what, and it does always seem to make the engine run better after an oil change. I realize it's just in my head, but who cares. I will probably go to the 3,000 mile mark before the change out to Mobil 1 Truck & SUV and Mobil 1 synthetic oil filter M-211 for the CRD.

One thing that has got expensive on my D/C rigs is the oil changes, even my Magnum takes 7 qts of oil for oil change were our VW's were 4 qt and the MB diesel was 6.5 qts. I was looking forward to the use of the same oil in each vehicle, I can't switch the Maggie to the T&SUV oil as it doesn't have the high temp shear strength that the M 1 0w-40 has and that's needed for the chain drive on the OHC's. Maybe after the change over to ULSD fuel I will switch the CRD back to 0w-40 oil.
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