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Liberty 2.8 CRD using oil when towing ..
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Author:  Sonix [ Mon Apr 07, 2008 4:45 pm ]
Post subject:  Liberty 2.8 CRD using oil when towing ..
The last time I towed my 2500 pound trailer with my 2.8CRD, it "used up" about 1 can of oil for every 500km (310 miles) I towed ... cruising around 110km/h (68 Miles/h) ...
Now for the past 2 weeks, I drove about 1000km (621 miles) city driving, with no load, and it didn't "use up" ONE drop of oil? ...
Is it normal for the CRD to "use/loose" so much oil when it's doing some HARD work towing heavy trailers???
Author:  05infernoCRDL [ Mon Apr 07, 2008 4:53 pm ]
Post subject: 
i feel in general, diesels should not be at the Full mark on the dipstick
IMO they should be about half way between the marks..

some people have reported burning oil above 1/2 but not at 1/2
Author:  Sonix [ Mon Apr 07, 2008 5:09 pm ]
Post subject: 
Trevor ...I also agree with the 1/2 mark oil fill-up ...
That's exactly what I did just before I went on my trip with the trailer ... The oil level was exactly half on the dipstick ...
After 1000km of towing, I checked again, and there was just a tiny little spec of oil at the tip of the dipstick ... it took me exactly 2 cans of oil (500ml each), to get the level up again, to the 1/2 mark on the dipstick ....
Now after about 1000km driving in the city, I checked the oil level a few minutes ago, and it's STILL on the half mark...
My previous car (Isuzu 280TD) also used a little bit of oil when towing, but not like this! :shock:
Author:  Threeweight [ Mon Apr 07, 2008 5:10 pm ]
Post subject: 
Not sure if this is your problem, but when these engines are over-filled, the excess oil ends up as a vapor that gets spit out through the crank case ventilation puck (CCV) then sucked into the turbo charger (where it gums up the works over time), and some of it ends up getting burned by the engine.

How much oil are you putting in the engine when you change it out? As noted above, oil level should be 1/2 between the full and low marks... put it at full and it will end up shooting a bunch through the CCV system.

I guess if the engine is working hard and the turbo is making lots of boost, it might suck more oil out of the CCV than usual.
Author:  05infernoCRDL [ Mon Apr 07, 2008 5:13 pm ]
Post subject: 
what was the terrain? threeweight might be on to something with the working hard
Author:  robert46123 [ Mon Apr 07, 2008 5:40 pm ]
Post subject: 
I've never run through any oil towing our 3,000 pound boat and trailer, and when I change it I usually get it pretty close to the full mark. I go 6,000 miles between changes and have yet to add oil regardless of towing or not. We regularly tow our boat to our cabin that is close to a 300 mile round trip with quite a few hills as we get further South. We've now got 36,000 miles on the Jeep.
Author:  Pablo [ Mon Apr 07, 2008 8:18 pm ]
Post subject: 
Type of oil also makes a difference here. Friend noticed his Jeep used oil when running hard on Shell Rotella. Switched to ELF and it stopped. Could not tell you why. I have Rotella and it will use some oil when running it hard (most of that goes into the CCV/Provent) . Still, it will only take it down from the half way mark to the low mark over 6,000 miles or so.
Author:  BlackLibertyCRD [ Mon Apr 07, 2008 10:47 pm ]
Post subject: 
Pablo wrote:
Type of oil also makes a difference here. Friend noticed his Jeep used oil when running hard on Shell Rotella. Switched to ELF and it stopped. Could not tell you why. I have Rotella and it will use some oil when running it hard (most of that goes into the CCV/Provent) . Still, it will only take it down from the half way mark to the low mark over 6,000 miles or so.


I towed 3,000 lbs cross country through mountains and back and used 1/2 qt at most in 7,000 miles on Shell Rotella. You can't beat that with a stick for the hard working mule that's loses very little in that many miles. :D
Author:  Uffe [ Tue Apr 08, 2008 2:40 am ]
Post subject: 
I'd bet it was the CCV which spat out some oil. Do any of you guys have an EGT gauge? It might be worth looking into if you go on those kinds of trips a lot :)
Author:  Sonix [ Tue Apr 08, 2008 2:57 am ]
Post subject: 
Sorry ...went to sleep cause it was allready 11:30pm the last time I posted ... came in this morning and was glad to see all the replies :wink:
Where were we ...oh yea ... the CCV spitting out the oil ... that COULD be the problem ....but like I said ...I ALWAYS fill my oil up only to halfway between the full and empty mark on the dipstick .... might the CCV STILL spit out oil even at this level? ...
The general grade of oil that we use here in South Africa is 15W40 (that's the general oil they use for all Turbo Diesel vehicles here in SA ..
Of course we have quite a few different brands of oil ... maybe I must change to another brand, as was mentioned earlier ...
I will keep this thread up to date on my findings ...
Author:  Uffe [ Tue Apr 08, 2008 4:46 am ]
Post subject: 
15w40 oil for me sounds bad. I would not put anything but 0w40 or 5w40 in my crd.

Does the 15w40 oil still comply with ACEA B3/B4 or API CH/CJ/CI? If so then no problem.

The CCV will spit out oil if the engine is loaded heavily, I suspect - regardless of fillup level. However, someone else can answer your question with a bit more technical insight, I'm sure they will come around to your thread :)
Author:  Joe Romas [ Tue Apr 08, 2008 7:22 am ]
Post subject: 
X2 on what Uffe says :lol: I would definetly use a synthetic oil and I don't think your 15-40 is. I used Shell Rotella non synthetic 15-40 in the white bottle for years in my old diesel VW's. But since 96 when I got my first TDI I've been using Shell Rotella 5-40 Synthetic in the blue bottle here with 10k miles changes on the TDI's with no useage between changes :D So that's what I'm raising my CRD on :wink: I sold both TDI's with over 100k miles and neither needed oil between changes :)
Author:  Sonix [ Tue Apr 08, 2008 2:47 pm ]
Post subject: 
hmmm ...ok ...you might have convinced me to use 5W40 synthetic oil next time I do the oil change .... 5W40 is actually a bit of an overkill, cause here in SA the lowest temperatures we get, is around 12C .... we don't get sub zero temperatures ... BUT ...we do get some high temperatures ...around 40C ...
I DID however also read that synthetic oil has got some other good factors as well (apart from being better at very cold temperatures) .. so maybe all in all it will be better to use it ...
Back to the "losing oil" problem .... I opened the engine cover this afternoon, and had a look at the CCV .... it was "damp" all over ...so there MUST be some oil being spit out through there ....
My oil level is not causing that ....so maybe it's the kind of oil I use? ... maybe changing to 5W40 Synthetic oil will do more wonders than I realize! :wink:
Author:  Uffe [ Wed Apr 09, 2008 1:24 am ]
Post subject: 
Synthetic oil is actually also better for high temperatures, if you ask the wise men.

There's a little oil website you can read a bit from here:

http://www.nordicgroup.us/oil.htm
Author:  danoid [ Fri Apr 11, 2008 11:34 am ]
Post subject: 
I use Mobil Delvac 1 5W40 and have never noticed consuption while towing a 5600# 27' camper.

Could be because I hardly ever check it, just change it.
Author:  Cowpie1 [ Fri Apr 11, 2008 2:15 pm ]
Post subject: 
Uffe wrote:
15w40 oil for me sounds bad. I would not put anything but 0w40 or 5w40 in my crd.

Does the 15w40 oil still comply with ACEA B3/B4 or API CH/CJ/CI? If so then no problem.


15w40 complies with CI-4+ and CJ-4. Always has... always will. Semi's regularly use a 15w40 with the same requirements as the CRD.

Regarding 15w40. It is ok to use in a CRD. The key number is the last one. the first number only shows an API flow rate for winter temps. And even then, different oils will do it differently. I.E. Amsoils 15w40 flows comfortably down to a -36F temp. Now their 5w40 flows nicely down to -45F. Delvac 1 and other synthetics have similar flow characteristics, give or take a few degrees.

Regarding using a 15w40 in a small diesel like the 2.8L CRD, this weight oil used quite regularly in small diesels like the ones in John Deere and New Holland compact tractors. So.... it is not just for 14L semi diesels.

The up side to using a 0w40 or 5w40 is that there is a definate advantage on the fuel savings side to using a better flowing oil. Either way... when it comes to synthetics, they are ALL a 40 weight oil. This is not true of the mineral oils. They use viscosity improvers to reach a 40 weight, but the base oil is not a true 40 weight. Synthetics are true 40 weights, but separated into classes based on flow characteristics. This is why, generally, the synthetics are better overall than the mineral oils.

Oh well... probably doesn't mean a thing. :roll:
Author:  Timmaah! [ Sat Apr 19, 2008 7:03 am ]
Post subject: 
I think that one of the reasons that large semi engines are okay with conventional oil is that most if not all of them have water cooled turbos. I also think that the CRD is fine with conventional oil under certain climate and operating conditions if a turbo cool down period is strictly followed after any hot running of the turbo. Synthetic oil flows better when cold, cokes at much higher temperature, lubricates in ways that regular oil cannot and has extended drain capabilities. But within a range of operating conditions synthetic does not beat conventional oil by much if at all.

There is a science surrounding turbos involving oil pressure and boost pressure where boost pressure and oil pressure provide a balance to help keep oil from leaking past the oil seals. Your CRD might be loosing oil at the turbo seals at the higher load, engine rpm and turbo boost that occurs during towing. There may be a different balance in the turbo seals using regular 15W40 oil contributing to loosing oil but I don't buy into that really. If you have been properly cooling your turbo then I come down on the side of oil going out you CCV under load especially since regular oil vaporizes at lower temperature than synthetic oil.
Author:  onthehunt [ Sun Apr 20, 2008 12:14 am ]
Post subject: 
Quote:
I think that one of the reasons that large semi engines are okay with conventional oil is that most if not all of them have water cooled turbos.


Nope. Most post 08 egr deisels have water cooled egr's. I can't think of a water cooled turbo on a tractor-trailer. All are oil cooled.
Author:  Uffe [ Sun Apr 20, 2008 10:01 am ]
Post subject: 
Cowpie1 wrote:

15w40 complies with CI-4+ and CJ-4. Always has... always will. Semi's regularly use a 15w40 with the same requirements as the CRD.

Oh well... probably doesn't mean a thing. :roll:


No it does not, nearly all 15w-40 oil in Denmark does NOT comply with CI4+ or CJ-4. Maybe it does in other countries, I will take your word for it, but it does not count for Denmark.
Author:  Timmaah! [ Sun Apr 20, 2008 10:37 pm ]
Post subject: 
onthehunt wrote:
Quote:
I think that one of the reasons that large semi engines are okay with conventional oil is that most if not all of them have water cooled turbos.


Nope. Most post 08 egr deisels have water cooled egr's. I can't think of a water cooled turbo on a tractor-trailer. All are oil cooled.


Thank You for the correction. Sometime the mind is willing but the memory is weak.

“Many Garrett turbos are water-cooled for enhanced durability.”

http://www.turbobygarrett.com/turbobygarrett/tech_center/turbo_tech101.html#top

Myth- This turbo is totally oil cooled as water cooling is troublesome.
Fact- There is no such thing as a small oil cooled turbo charger!! All turbo chargers are oil fed due to the fact that they all have bearings that need lubricating. Turbocharger units are either water-cooled or not! Full Stop!! Unfortunately most aftermarket turbo kit manufacturers specify non-water cooled or use the water-cooled turbo, but leave the water-cooling disconnected. All for a cost sake!! As usual, the excuses used leave the customer confused! Water cooling came about to increase the durability and life expectancy of a turbo unit. This is visible if we look at factory turbo charged 4WD’s. They nearly all use water-cooling.

http://www.bomzhan.com/2007/09/07/turbo-myths-and-facts/
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