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Blown glow plug (picture)
http://www.lostjeeps.com/forum/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=31515		 Page 1 of 2
Author:  CATCRD [ Sun Apr 13, 2008 10:01 pm ]
Post subject:  Blown glow plug (picture)
This winter I was called out of work to move my car for some construction equipment on a very cold day. I fired it up after the normal glow, drove it about 20ft and shut it off. I hate doing that, but whatever. That evening, leaving work, the Jeep started as usual, and in about 5 seconds suddenly started running like crap. Shaking like it was running on 2 cylinders. I shut it off after about 5 seconds of that, and thinking it might be air in fuel, started it back up. Totally normal this time, but a new code P1261 was on the scanner. That's not really valid, but a few references on this site to that code were about glow plugs. I lived with it for a few months, as the other 3 seemed to get it to start fine.

After unplugging the harness and ohming them out I found only one was bad. It measured open, and the other 3 were at 0.6. And in an enormous stroke of luck it turned out to be #1 cylinder. This is the only one you can reach without removing any other components. A 10mm deep socket and about a foot of extensions will reach it. Here's the damage:

Image

What are the odds that sucker scored my cylinder wall? What do you suppose was the cause of the rough running that suddenly went away?

And does anyone know the torque spec for the glow plugs?
Author:  Sir Sam [ Sun Apr 13, 2008 10:16 pm ]
Post subject: 
anyone know what the end looks like normally?
Author:  CATCRD [ Sun Apr 13, 2008 10:19 pm ]
Post subject: 
Half of the end is still intact, so that's the normal profile. Kind of a concave taper. It just split right down the middle.
Author:  Sir Sam [ Sun Apr 13, 2008 10:20 pm ]
Post subject: 
CATCRD wrote:
Half of the end is still intact, so that's the normal profile. Kind of a concave taper. It just split right down the middle.


need a replacement right away?
Author:  05infernoCRDL [ Sun Apr 13, 2008 10:21 pm ]
Post subject: 
is it like this?

Bosch part number 80041

http://info.rockauto.com/getimage/getim ... /80041.jpg
Author:  MrMopar64 [ Sun Apr 13, 2008 10:23 pm ]
Post subject: 
I had a similar failure one time on my dyno bench engine. This is what came of that:

Image

Image

Bigger ones available at http://picasaweb.google.com/lipkowmw/LostKJs

Needless to say, it didn't really run after that (well, sorta kinda on 3 cylinders).

As for the running rough, could have been a piece of something that lodged inbetween a valve and the head at some point.

Glow plug torque spec is 12.5 N-m or 110 in-lbs. The failure there looks like an over voltage condition. You are very lucky that the engine didn't fail from that.
Author:  CATCRD [ Mon Apr 14, 2008 12:07 am ]
Post subject: 
05infernoCRDL wrote:
is it like this?

Bosch part number 80041

http://info.rockauto.com/getimage/getim ... /80041.jpg


That's the one.


MrMopar thanks for the torque spec.
Author:  nursecosmo [ Mon Apr 14, 2008 12:50 am ]
Post subject: 
Wow, that sucks. Is there a way to avoid that in the rest of our jeeps (no ether of course)?
Author:  DarbyWalters [ Mon Apr 14, 2008 7:29 am ]
Post subject: 
That is why my eninge was replaced at 8200 miles...glow plug parts went thru the system...whole new engine under warranty. Good Luck
Author:  Desert_Busa [ Tue Apr 15, 2008 12:16 am ]
Post subject: 
darn... Is there anything wrong with unplugging them?
Author:  cevans [ Tue Apr 15, 2008 1:59 am ]
Post subject: 
Wow, that is INCREDIBLY high torque spec for a glow plug! Can you double check that?
Author:  Sir Sam [ Tue Apr 15, 2008 2:10 am ]
Post subject: 
cevans wrote:
Wow, that is INCREDIBLY high torque spec for a glow plug! Can you double check that?


page 966 of the FSM:

FSM wrote:
2. Tighten glow plugs to 12.5 N·m (110 in. lbs.).


110 (in / pounds) = 9.16666667 ft / pounds


[quote="FSM"]INSTALLATION CAUTION:
-Before a new glow plug is installed, make sure that the thread of glow plug and glow plug bore in the cylinder head is dry, clean, and oil/grease-free
-Check the resistance of the glow plug with an appropriate multi-meter, resistance should be less than EDIT: I give up, for whatever reason anything paste here just gets cutoff when posting, truncated, cut, circumcised, gone......just gone, I was going to post the procedure, but it just disappears for no good reason. 0.8
Author:  MrMopar64 [ Tue Apr 15, 2008 9:10 am ]
Post subject: 
Has your jeep been updated with the latest ECU flash? At one point early in the run there was an issue with running the GLP for too much time in which case they broke from being too hot.

Sam, the GLP in your engine is relay controlled and runs at 12V (GS2). The GLP in the KJ R2816K5 engine are GSK3 and operate at approx. 7V. They are controlled by the GCU (Glow Control Unit) which receives a PWM signal from the ECU. The GCU can detect open circuit on the individual glow plugs (hence why the glow plug harness has a 4-pin connector) and then reports to the ECU which ones are damaged.

Putting the wrong GLP in the wrong application will cause lots of damage so be fully certain you have the right one before replacing.
Author:  geordi [ Tue Apr 15, 2008 9:57 am ]
Post subject: 
You also want to be careful in your listening to the car for a while, as those pieces of glow tip could find their way into the turbo vanes. That would make bad unhappy sounds. Unfortunately, once you hear those unhappy sounds, your turbo is probably already killed.
Author:  Sir Sam [ Tue Apr 15, 2008 1:07 pm ]
Post subject: 
MrMopar64 wrote:
Has your jeep been updated with the latest ECU flash? At one point early in the run there was an issue with running the GLP for too much time in which case they broke from being too hot.

Sam, the GLP in your engine is relay controlled and runs at 12V (GS2). The GLP in the KJ R2816K5 engine are GSK3 and operate at approx. 7V. They are controlled by the GCU (Glow Control Unit) which receives a PWM signal from the ECU. The GCU can detect open circuit on the individual glow plugs (hence why the glow plug harness has a 4-pin connector) and then reports to the ECU which ones are damaged.

Putting the wrong GLP in the wrong application will cause lots of damage so be fully certain you have the right one before replacing.


Copy that, I suspected they would be different, and I was going to verify they were the same before use.

At the very least, the threads would probably have been the same, so I could have helped him plug his hole.
Author:  MrMopar64 [ Tue Apr 15, 2008 2:50 pm ]
Post subject: 
Yes, the threads in the heads are the same. The two plugs are dimensionally identical with only the voltage/control being different.
Author:  CATCRD [ Tue Apr 15, 2008 6:40 pm ]
Post subject: 
MrMopar64 wrote:
Has your jeep been updated with the latest ECU flash? At one point early in the run there was an issue with running the GLP for too much time in which case they broke from being too hot.

Sam, the GLP in your engine is relay controlled and runs at 12V (GS2). The GLP in the KJ R2816K5 engine are GSK3 and operate at approx. 7V. They are controlled by the GCU (Glow Control Unit) which receives a PWM signal from the ECU. The GCU can detect open circuit on the individual glow plugs (hence why the glow plug harness has a 4-pin connector) and then reports to the ECU which ones are damaged.

Putting the wrong GLP in the wrong application will cause lots of damage so be fully certain you have the right one before replacing.


It has not been updated with any flashes for at least 2 yrs, so no. I don't want it to get detuned by F31/F37.
Author:  MrMopar64 [ Tue Apr 15, 2008 10:13 pm ]
Post subject: 
I would at least invest in the glow plug fix that was released. If not, chances are it'll happen again and your engine might not be so lucky the next time.
Author:  robrub00 [ Thu Sep 24, 2009 8:38 pm ]
Post subject: 
what glow plug fix was released? how would i know if i have it? is it a service bulliten?
Author:  Joe Romas [ Fri Sep 25, 2009 7:36 am ]
Post subject: 
TSB 18-023-06 Dated July 14, 2006

I quote.

"Flash Enhanced Torque Converter, Glow Plug, SKIM and Throttle Valve Shutdown operation Or (but I think it means AND) Brake Switch DTC 504"
This one superceeds 18-00806 and 18-009-06.

I think this one has a early version of F37 and reduced the torque and changed the shifting. Under "Overview" it says:

"This bulletin involves selectivly erasing and reprogramming The Engine Control Module (ECM) and Transmission Control Module (TCM) with new software".

F37 instructions say that it (f37) superceeds TSB 18-023-06

I don't know if you want this one or not :?: :?:

I wonder what if any good TSB's are included in GDE's tune??
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