LOST JEEPS :: View topic - Shift to neutral on stops (long lights etc) ?

That's really a good idea, prevents heat buildup in the TCC - the more aggressive the hydraulic coupling, the greater load on the engine, also = more fuel used at each stop - all ya gotta remember is: now the brakes are the only thing that keeps the vehicle from rolling forward\reverse at most intersections

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just so you know coasting in neutral is illegal in most jurisdictions, one of the requirements for being in control is having the transmission engaged

Its much easier to replace the brake pads than it is to replace worn out solenoids in the tranny. Seems to me like this puts alot of un-needed wear and tear on the tranny.

Only time I would worry about the tranny over heating is in heavy traffic(alot of stop and go) or when pulling big loads. Its actually recommended in the OM to shift in N when stopped if your in traffic or towing but I do not believe you need to do it at every light.

Bunchs pansys complaining about it being to hard to push a brake pedal.

"When I shift into neutral at long lights, the RPM does a little nudge on the tachometer and goes back to the same speed. When I pull it back into gear it is very smooth and the tachometer needle does the nudge and back to the same speed as well."

This indicates intelligent idle rpm management - the Drive to Neutral 'nudge', if caught on a digital tachometer, would show the rpm resulted from the extra fuel required to maintain idle rpm under transmission load, and also the drop in rpm resulting from that loading when shifting back into Drive.

Agreed on the 'wear'n'tear' theme.

Good input, altho my rpm-comparison post was really directed to husky, vis a vis his stated braking effort - good thing I didn't call him out by name.............

Author:	007husky [ Thu Apr 17, 2008 11:16 am ]
Post subject:	Shift to neutral on stops (long lights etc) ?
Hi, i m used to drive a manual for the past 20 yrs. And it kind bothers me the pressure that the truck puts while in drive and stop at a light. Also breaks wear much faster and after a hard breaking (when rotors hot) is a bad idea to keep a lot of pressure in 1 spot of the rotor (like when you are at a stop light trying to get the truck to not move). Plus unnecessary engine load. Question: Would it hurt the transmission to go in and out of neutral at each light ? any adverse effects ? Thanks !

Author:	gmctd [ Thu Apr 17, 2008 11:44 am ]
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That's really a good idea, prevents heat buildup in the TCC - the more aggressive the hydraulic coupling, the greater load on the engine, also = more fuel used at each stop - all ya gotta remember is: now the brakes are the only thing that keeps the vehicle from rolling forward\backward at most intersections Been there, done that for years, running a Dodge Cummins TC in my 6.5L GMC - can see the needle on the trans temp guage start climbing at every stop in any drive range - installed the optional factory aux external 'cooler in series with the standard factory 'cooler, but even that didn't help Yer average Suncoast TCC for the KJ is way more aggressive than the wussy DCJ version - check my Suncoast install thread for pics - FYI, that's a converted HEMI TCC, ex-plastic.....................

Author:	dog_party [ Thu Apr 17, 2008 1:05 pm ]
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I'm in N at every red light. I usually push it up into N before I come to a complete stop too.

Author:	ccattie [ Thu Apr 17, 2008 1:15 pm ]
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I coast in N often. I worry that in a panic I'll forget to throw it back in D to take evasive action. -c

Author:	dgeist [ Thu Apr 17, 2008 2:40 pm ]
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gmctd wrote: That's really a good idea, prevents heat buildup in the TCC - the more aggressive the hydraulic coupling, the greater load on the engine, also = more fuel used at each stop - all ya gotta remember is: now the brakes are the only thing that keeps the vehicle from rolling forward\reverse at most intersections . Unless you put it in....PARK That's what I do if I have to hard-stop at a light. It lets the tranny hold the vehicle in place while the brakes cool a bit.

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Author:	erockskj [ Thu Apr 17, 2008 2:59 pm ]
Post subject:	In nuetral at stop light
I`ve been doing it now for a few tanks and can say it`s good for 1+ or more MPG depending how much stop and driving you have to do. I do it without even thinking now

Author:	warp2diesel [ Thu Apr 17, 2008 5:26 pm ]
Post subject:	Yep I do it
I notice that the only time my trans temp gauge gets off the bottom is with stop and go. Shifting to N makes the needle come down at least 10f. Steve

Author:	Uffe [ Thu Apr 17, 2008 6:32 pm ]
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I do it too, for fuel economy. The only time I do not shift to neutral at a light is when the transmission needs to warm up after a cold morning start. Then I want it to become heated just a tiny bit faster so I can lock it up sooner on my trip

Author:	Magnum [ Thu Apr 17, 2008 7:02 pm ]
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just so you know coasting in neutral is illegal in most jurisdictions, one of the requirements for being in control is having the transmission engaged

Author:	onthehunt [ Thu Apr 17, 2008 8:03 pm ]
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I would think you would cause more wear on the trans going from N to D all the time than just leaving it alone.

Author:	Jeepjeepster [ Thu Apr 17, 2008 10:48 pm ]
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Its much easier to replace the brake pads than it is to replace worn out solenoids in the tranny. Seems to me like this puts alot of un-needed wear and tear on the tranny. Only time I would worry about the tranny over heating is in heavy traffic(alot of stop and go) or when pulling big loads. Its actually recommended in the OM to shift in N when stopped if your in traffic or towing but I do not believe you need to do it at every light. Bunchs pansys complaining about it being to hard to push a brake pedal.

Author:	Scott Langohr [ Fri Apr 18, 2008 7:37 am ]
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Magnum wrote: just so you know coasting in neutral is illegal in most jurisdictions, one of the requirements for being in control is having the transmission engaged What is the difference in sliding the shifter between drive and neutral on ours and stepping on the clutch of a stick and shifting to neutral between gears? The transmission on a stick is never engaged when the clutch is depressed. Ignorant government intervention at work again. Some nucklehead politition is probably pretty proud of getting this one passed for "the greater good; comrades" We are just bitter hayseed hicks that are driven to cling to our bibles and guns while waiting for the government to take over our lives for us. After all, these eleteist are way smarter than we are. I have no problem with you, Magnum, as you were just reporting the facts. It's the facts I have a problem with. Sorry but that struck a raw nerve and I wouldn't blame the moderators for deleting this and putting me on probation

Author:	007husky [ Fri Apr 18, 2008 11:28 am ]
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Jeepjeepster wrote: Its much easier to replace the brake pads than it is to replace worn out solenoids in the tranny. Seems to me like this puts alot of un-needed wear and tear on the tranny. Only time I would worry about the tranny over heating is in heavy traffic(alot of stop and go) or when pulling big loads. Its actually recommended in the OM to shift in N when stopped if your in traffic or towing but I do not believe you need to do it at every light. Bunchs pansys complaining about it being to hard to push a brake pedal. nono, having an AT is for pansys has a lot of drawbacks like: worst fuel economy than a properly operated manual. bad driving habits (like taping on brakes constantly therefor creating trafic by starting a chain of braking) or going 0 to 35 in 1 second then slow down. lasts less than most manuals and are more expensive to maintain when they break easy to drive, so all the bad drivers get access to a cars sooner keeps your hands un-bussy, so you can drink, eat or talk on the phone (promoting any activity that distracts you from the road) wears your brake pads n rotors unesesarely loads the engine unesesarely no control of shiftpoints (so your car manufacturer can neuter your car by messing with the programing coughs and i can make up a few more yet, i haven't seen a crd with manual trans in the US, AND i love my crd. so i drive AT. Now, seriously. it just bugs me to have to put considerably pressure on the pedal when i brake at a stop light or to stop my truck . It seems i m fighting the trany all the time. May be something is out of wack in my setup.

Author:	chrispitude [ Fri Apr 18, 2008 11:45 am ]
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I have a Suncoast with a lower stall, and light to medium brake pedal force is all that's needed to hold a stop. Perhaps your brakes need bleeding? - Chris

Author:	clday25 [ Fri Apr 18, 2008 5:02 pm ]
Post subject:	D vs N
Its not the RPMs to consider with being in N or D at a stop, its the engine load (Lod) and gallons per hour (Gph) differnce that you'd see if you had a SGII. With the motor fully warmed up, my Lod and GPH in N or P are at 12/13 and 0.3. Now put it in D and the load and GPH jump to 25 to 30 and 1.0 respectivly.... This tells me that is takes more fuel to sit at a stop sign in D then it does N or P. There's a whole thread on this somewhere..... My couple of cents... Chris

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Author:	gmctd [ Fri Apr 18, 2008 12:08 pm ]
Post subject:
Compare idle rpm in Neutral to idle rpm in Drive.................

Author:	warp2diesel [ Fri Apr 18, 2008 1:17 pm ]
Post subject:	Dosen't the ECM control idle speed
When I shift into neutral at long lights, the RPM does a little nudge on the tachometer and goes back to the same speed. When I pull it back into gear it is very smooth and the tachometer needle does the nudge and back to the same speed as well. I do notice less diesel clatter noise coming from the engine and about 10f less on the trans temp. Also; as far as wearing out solenoids, the number one cause of burned up solenoids sticking and not moving to the excited position when energized. Since the spools are in clean oil and are not under any overload type situations, they will last for millions of cycles. The only wear item would be the shift cable. In my experience most cable failures come from lack of use where they rust in place and get stuck. The same holds true for the solenoids, poppet valves, and spool valves they actuate inside the transmission valve body, sitting and not being used is the worst environment. Steve

Author:	gmctd [ Fri Apr 18, 2008 2:02 pm ]
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"When I shift into neutral at long lights, the RPM does a little nudge on the tachometer and goes back to the same speed. When I pull it back into gear it is very smooth and the tachometer needle does the nudge and back to the same speed as well." This indicates intelligent idle rpm management - the Drive to Neutral 'nudge', if caught on a digital tachometer, would show the rpm resulted from the extra fuel required to maintain idle rpm under transmission load, and also the drop in rpm resulting from that loading when shifting back into Drive. Agreed on the 'wear'n'tear' theme. Good input, altho my rpm-comparison post was really directed to husky, vis a vis his stated braking effort - good thing I didn't call him out by name.............

Author:	007husky [ Fri Apr 18, 2008 2:45 pm ]
Post subject:
gmctd wrote: "When I shift into neutral at long lights, the RPM does a little nudge on the tachometer and goes back to the same speed. When I pull it back into gear it is very smooth and the tachometer needle does the nudge and back to the same speed as well." This indicates intelligent idle rpm management - the Drive to Neutral 'nudge', if caught on a digital tachometer, would show the rpm resulted from the extra fuel required to maintain idle rpm under transmission load, and also the drop in rpm resulting from that loading when shifting back into Drive. Agreed on the 'wear'n'tear' theme. Good input, altho my rpm-comparison post was really directed to husky, vis a vis his stated braking effort - good thing I didn't call him out by name............. Is the same for me, rpm`s stay the same,

Author:	Threeweight [ Fri Apr 18, 2008 5:32 pm ]
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Started doing this with mine on the way home last night and noticed a slight "tick" in the RPM needle and slightly different tone from the engine when shifted into neutral.