OK, I got rid of most of the various noises I complained about last week by replacing the serpentine belt. However, the "rattle" portion of the sound has not gone away and is louder than ever. This time, I filmed it and put it on Youtube so you could hear it for yourself. For some reason, on-camera it sounds more like a fan belt sound but when you are standing there it sounds like something rattling....but I have checked everything for loose components and thus far found nothing.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xmzpqhd08_E

I moved the camera (cell phone) around above the engine to see if I can pinpoint the sound but when standing there it appears to be coming from everywhere - perhaps a bit more pronounced on the alternator side.
I did check the alternator when I removed the belt and noticed no roughness in the bearing and it spun quiet and smooth. I had the AC clutch off so I don't think it is the AC. Power draw does seem to change tone of the sound a bit.

Besides the most immediate concern I have regarding the rattling, you can hear the other unidentified sound as well: It is a lower tone - a hollow sound.

Any suggestions? This thing is really driving me crazy.

_________________
2005 CRD Limited:
* 245/70/16 Nokian Vatiiva
* Magnaflow
* Kennedy Diesel lift pump
* Custom CCV condensor
* Custom modified thermostat housing w/bleeder valve

2006 CRD Limited (wife's)
* Bone stock

Something is wrong. Sounds like a bad bearing somewhere. Check all your idler pulleys.

_________________
2005 sport crd-SOLD No regrets

That sounds just like mine did before i changed the pulley connected to the alternator ,it has some sort of a clutch mechanism inside ,loosen your serp belt and check for play and noise in that pulley wheel.Not to hard to change you need to remove alternator from car,and then it can be made real easy if you have access to air tools,the air wrench can be used to shock it loose,if not you will have to strip the alternator case and lock the shaft whilst you undo the pulley wheel.

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2004 2.8 crd Limited

It's always amazing to me that people who know absolutely nothing about their vehicle(s) always somehow magically know how to cull posted responses as not helpful: re-read thru your previous thread on this subject, and then ask about that crap serpentine belt you installed, and why VM chose the belt that you replaced (hopefully you haven't trashed it!)........

_________________
'05 CRD Limited
Pricol EGT, Boost
GDE Hot '11; EDGE Trail switched
SEGR; Provent; Magnaflow;
Suncoast T\C, Transgo Tow'n'Go switch;
Cummins LP module, Fleetguard filter, Filterminder
2.5" Daystar f, OME r; Ranchos; K80767's, Al's lifted uppers
Rubicons, 2.55 Goodyears
Four in a row really makes it go

Is this video quality or is your belt tensioner jumping up and down ????? Broken spring in it?

_________________
Cherokee 2,5 CRD: sold - Wrangler TJ 2.5: gone - Touareg V10 TDI: new toy

Solo Liberty en Español: Jeepliberty.es

My knowledge is spotty concerning the peripherals of this engine as my experience has been strictly with gasoline engines - and yes, I am rather embarrassed by this fact. In addition, none of my previous vehicles had anywhere close to the number of quality problems this car has had in the few miles it has on it. That is why I have sought out people more knowledgeable than I: To learn. I'm sorry I frustrate you with my ignorance gmctd - the last thing I want to do is upset someone who has been so helpful to me in the past!

I did look through my previous thread for answers. But this time, it is a slightly different sound - and I thought a video would help clarify it instead of attempting to find words to describe the sound. I thought that if people actually heard it, they might be more certain what it was.

Here is summary of the suggestions from my previous thread:

engine heater
clutch pulley on the alternator
fluid levels
electric fan
Loose fitting hoses...Air Box, Turbo and Intercooler
cycling of the compressor
Worn serpentine belt.
The belt tensioner
bad bearing somewhere.
the dreaded Tranny Rattle
too stiff a belt

At this point I am leaning toward the clutch pulley on the alternator because it was mentioned twice in the previous thread and again in this one after hearing the recording of it. However, I spun the alternator when I had the belt off and it was not rough. I also pulled the shaft from side to side and back and forth looking for any bearing play and found none. These are all standard things I always checked when replacing fan belts. I have never had a vehicle with a clutch on the alternator so perhaps there is something else I should have checked?
When the belt was off I also checked the various other pulleys and found no rough bearings - or at least ones that were noticeable by hand.

---------------

gmctd, to pick my belt brand I culled the prevailing wisdom in my previous thread - which did not indicate my Goodyear belt was "crap" as you suggest. According to some local shops it is a good belt:

"..I went with the Gates belt from Napa. Gates is who does the factory belts. but any name brand should do.." (I went with a name brand: All the others were special order only)
"..There have been mentions of too stiff a belt will make the noise louder. Worth looking into before buying..." (The Goodyear was more flexible)
"..I have use Gates, Daco, Kelly Springfield, and Continental belts with success. FCI is a Shop brand that is also good..." (The large list of possibilities here made me think, once again, there was little difference in brands)

HOWEVER, I will choke up the $125 on a new stock belt if you are convinced that is a major problem - either now or in the near future - but in my last thread, you did not mention the Goodyear belt I bought was crap and neither did anyone else.

tonycrd:
Yes, the tensioner is bouncing some which is one reason I was looking down there, but the belt is very tight so I assume the spring is not broken.

_________________
2005 CRD Limited:
* 245/70/16 Nokian Vatiiva
* Magnaflow
* Kennedy Diesel lift pump
* Custom CCV condensor
* Custom modified thermostat housing w/bleeder valve

2006 CRD Limited (wife's)
* Bone stock

Just out of curiosity spray some wd40 or similar lube into the front of the alternator pulley and see if it makes the noise reduce slightly it did on mine which helped determine it was the pulley,also mine was depositing a brown dust onto the plastic engine cover.And get your stealership to check that price for the serp belt i live in rip off britian and my belt was only around £33 from dealer which is less than they quoted yourself.Good luck tracking down the fault ,i remeber when mine was making a racket it drove me mad but the relief when i pinpointed the problem and cured it was great,engine didnt sound like a bucket of spanners anymore.

_________________
2004 2.8 crd Limited

Brown dust = Yes!

Also, I just went outside to spray some WD40 into the crevasses of the pulley but the noise was.....magically gone. This means it is may be heat related and I simply have not noticed it in the fog of my early morning commute - when it is cool and I don't see much traffic. It just occurred to me that I notice it on the way home while idling in heavy traffic - when the weather is warmer, the engine warmer.

This evidence in combination with gmctd and other's comments, makes it look like I will be buying a new alternator clutch if I want this to stop. (I highly doubt my 7 year "warranty" covers it) I can only imagine what that tiny little thing is going to set me back. What, perhaps $400?

Out of curiosity, why is there a "clutch" on the alternator? Or is it a vibration dampener? And why the hell did it wear out so fast? Perhaps I can replace it with a higher quality product?

Thanks!

_________________
2005 CRD Limited:
* 245/70/16 Nokian Vatiiva
* Magnaflow
* Kennedy Diesel lift pump
* Custom CCV condensor
* Custom modified thermostat housing w/bleeder valve

2006 CRD Limited (wife's)
* Bone stock

Mine cost me around £65 for the pulley wheel on the alternator from the dealership.Not sure about the heat related bit ,but if your engine is under extra load ie rear window defrost ,air con ect it will make the noise worse if it is the aforementioned pulley.Try letting it tickover with nothing switched on no fan lights ect,then stand in front of alternator pulley and have someone flick the heated rear window on and see if noise gets worse .

_________________
2004 2.8 crd Limited

Thanks Jimmy,

I drove into town and the horrible racket heard in my video is all but gone - just an occasional rattle. But, I did not take it onto the freeway and it is fairly cool today so...hmmm. I'm now beginning to think that the pulley wheel is heating up when driving at sustained high speeds and then begins to rattle loudly when I slow back down.

I checked with the dealer and the part is $75 and week's delay due to special order from the East Coast. Since £65 is roughly $125 today, I guess I shouldn't whine too much. But still, a friggin' pulley wheel that only lasts a couple of years?! I'm used to pulley wheels that cost $10 and outlast the car.
So, what horrible thing would beset me if I simply put a "normal" pulley wheel on it?

Luckily it was not the alternator. That little bugger will set you back half a grand! What is so special about this one over similarly rated alternators?

- Chris

EDIT UPDATE: My wife is finally home so I compared her 06 side by side to mine while running. I think there are actually TWO things wrong with mine:

Rattle #1 and Rattle #2

I think Rattle #1 may indeed the pulley wheel on the alternator and I think it may be getting loud when it heats up after a long, hard drive.

I think Rattle #2 may be the tension idler pulley. This was mentioned as a possibility before but I saw nothing wrong with it when I changed the belt. However, my wife's 06 tensioner pulley vibrates very little while mine is vibrating rather significantly in comparison. It also looks like it may have a bit of a wobble in it. If it is indeed the tension pulley then I have 3 questions:
1) Is it difficult to change this?
2) Can it be "overhauled" by repacking it's bearings or pressing a new bearing into it? I am guessing, based upon the cost of the alternator pulley that this one is probably $300 since it has more pieces and is more complex.

_________________
2005 CRD Limited:
* 245/70/16 Nokian Vatiiva
* Magnaflow
* Kennedy Diesel lift pump
* Custom CCV condensor
* Custom modified thermostat housing w/bleeder valve

2006 CRD Limited (wife's)
* Bone stock

Tonycrd is probably a good one to ask about the pulley wheels ,if memory serves me he discovered that the price of the wheels vary depending which one it is ,but i think he found out that one of the cheaper pulley wheels can be used with a slight mod.Sure he'll chirp in with more accurate info on the subject.Hope you manage to diagnose and fix it as cheaply and as quick as possible.

_________________
2004 2.8 crd Limited

Thanks Jimmy,
The most time savings way to deal with this is just to bow to the stealer gods and buy a new idler pulley and alternator pulley. Besides gaging on their prices, it worries me that these parts did not last very long to begin with so I hate continuing to spend a lot of money on pieces of poorly designed junk.

_________________
2005 CRD Limited:
* 245/70/16 Nokian Vatiiva
* Magnaflow
* Kennedy Diesel lift pump
* Custom CCV condensor
* Custom modified thermostat housing w/bleeder valve

2006 CRD Limited (wife's)
* Bone stock

Wont they be covered under your warranty?, and if your paying take your time in the diagnoses as it can get kinda costly throwing parts at the car and not getting rid of the problem. If you can get hold od an air ratchet the alternator pulley is real easy,fit a spanner on the adjuster wheel and push real hard to slacken the belt,remove the belt ,undo the pos/neg wires remove two bolts holding the alternator in place,put alternator on a bench ,select a suitable male socket (similar to an allen key) i used a sump socket used on some european cars,and whizz it off in one hit the shock and speed off the air ratchet works a treat.If it were me i'd read through all the suggestions people have given and see if any of the info helps to pinpoint the trouble,as you know there are around 7 pulleys and it can be quite hard to tell were a noise originates from. .May the force be with you.

_________________
2004 2.8 crd Limited

Thanks again Jimmy,
I am now fairly sure it is both the alternator pulley and tensioner pulley. The tensioner pulley is dancing around far worse than in my wife's 06 and the other rattle is heat related - which, in combination with the brown dust around the alternator, would indicate an alternator clutch pulley that heats up and begins to slip.

Good idea to check on the warranty. I guess I was just expecting no help whatsoever since thus far they have managed to weasel out of every complaint except the F37. What they told me was that I am now only on the 7/70 warranty which only covers the power train. Perhaps I need to step up my angst a bit when I go in there next time....

_________________
2005 CRD Limited:
* 245/70/16 Nokian Vatiiva
* Magnaflow
* Kennedy Diesel lift pump
* Custom CCV condensor
* Custom modified thermostat housing w/bleeder valve

2006 CRD Limited (wife's)
* Bone stock

If you take your alternator off the CRD and take it to any competent starter/alternator rebuild shop, they can replace just the pulley for you for a small charge. Call different shops in your area first and have them confirm the part is on the shelf before you take the unit out and/or have them order it for you. The new pulley will cost about $55 + their labor, but far cheaper than a new unit or stealership charge.…

Thank you!

Where can I find one for $55? Is this a common part an alternator shop would stock? The $tealer quoted me $75 and a week and a half special order time.

What the heck does it actually do that a old fashioned 1 piece pulley can't do? I have never owned a car with an alternator like this nor have I ever seen one before.

- Chris

_________________
2005 CRD Limited:
* 245/70/16 Nokian Vatiiva
* Magnaflow
* Kennedy Diesel lift pump
* Custom CCV condensor
* Custom modified thermostat housing w/bleeder valve

2006 CRD Limited (wife's)
* Bone stock

http://www.lostjeeps.com/forum/phpBB3/vie ... 384#335384

Also, note the soft compound compliancy of the VM belt drive surface vs any of the aftermarket belts - compensates for the extreme forces generated by a 4cyl Diesel engine, with only two firing pulses per crank rotation - they tried to make it as smooth as possible for the soccer-moms and soccered dads

My KJ has 60kmi on the original belt, no cracks, tears, ply separation, etc - the rattle, worse with the ac burning, disappears just off-idle, so a new alt pulley would cure the noise, for a while - do a search on my handle for the original post on this subject.

_________________
'05 CRD Limited
Pricol EGT, Boost
GDE Hot '11; EDGE Trail switched
SEGR; Provent; Magnaflow;
Suncoast T\C, Transgo Tow'n'Go switch;
Cummins LP module, Fleetguard filter, Filterminder
2.5" Daystar f, OME r; Ranchos; K80767's, Al's lifted uppers
Rubicons, 2.55 Goodyears
Four in a row really makes it go

Call some different alternator shops in your area. I talked to one here in Phoenix and that’s what he told me. Much cheaper if you walk in with it and set it on the counter. Only takes about 5 minutes (if they have the part)…

Thank you ALL!!

This makes sense.

I think I finally have a plan:

* Yank the alternator, put on a new clutch pulley.
* Put the old stock belt back on & put the new one in the back as a spare.
* I think I'm going to replace the tension idler pulley as well since it appears to be wobbling more than my wife's.
Can this be replaced without taking out the entire tensioning arm? Is it possible to simply undo the nut on the front and pop off the pulley and replace the bearing?

- Chris

_________________
2005 CRD Limited:
* 245/70/16 Nokian Vatiiva
* Magnaflow
* Kennedy Diesel lift pump
* Custom CCV condensor
* Custom modified thermostat housing w/bleeder valve

2006 CRD Limited (wife's)
* Bone stock

Sounds like a plan, if I do say so meownself................

_________________
'05 CRD Limited
Pricol EGT, Boost
GDE Hot '11; EDGE Trail switched
SEGR; Provent; Magnaflow;
Suncoast T\C, Transgo Tow'n'Go switch;
Cummins LP module, Fleetguard filter, Filterminder
2.5" Daystar f, OME r; Ranchos; K80767's, Al's lifted uppers
Rubicons, 2.55 Goodyears
Four in a row really makes it go