LOST JEEPS :: View topic - Dealer CANâ€™T fix my CRD

Big surprise don’t you think?

What should my next step be?
Has anyone else run into a problem that Chrysler can’t fix?
What did they do for you?

I have 45k on it now my extended warrantee is good for another 25K about 2 more years.

As it stands now I have to bleed it off daily. 98% of the time I have to crank it for 45 to 55 seconds before it will fire and run, and once in a while it just dies and you have to get out a bleed it off to get it to restart.

The Dealer has a call into Chrysler or so they have told me.

The snap-on fuel fittings used where the the fuel lines attach to the fuel tank were designed primarily for a pressurized system - NOT for a system under vacuum.
I believe those that use the in-tank pump fix this systemic problem by pressurizing the entire system.
To summarize, it's a systemic design-type of problem that the system pretty much works but a little deviation from ideal conditions causes it to begin to fail..and since it isn't often a 'hard failure' we all learn to live with poorer throttle response, additional smoke, hesitation, priming issues, etc as a result.

My thoughts.
Mark

The fact they have all the circuitry there for a pump indicates to me they, Chrysler/Jeep, knew it needed a lift pump and for some reason left it off. Most likely a bean counter decision :roll:

This is what they have replaced so far, first was the Fuel Filter Head & Filter, second was not sure exactly what it’s called but they referred to it at the tank pickup, and last was all new fuel lines. It was in the shop for 5 weeks most of the time waiting for parts.

It has not shuddered on me once in the last year that I can recall, just up and quit on me yes 4 or 5 times, and the long cranking to started about 6 months ago started 5 weeks ago.

No CEL’s at all.

And I could see no visible leaks any place, and when I made mention of a lift pump I was told it would void the warrantee.

So, it's still Mopar, right (the Cummins lift pump). So, ask them if they'll do the lift pump (with instructions from here, of course) and if it fixes the problem to document it as such with Chrysler so that it doesn't void your warranty.

Dan

I did suggest they do the lift pump mod as on here, I was told they can’t do anything that’s not Chrysler approved and it would void my warrantee. Wonder if it would void the warrantee on the rest of the drive train (transmission, transfer case, axles, etc.).

I guess if I want it fixed I’ll have to do it myself.

Why is it you go to the store buy a washing machine bring it home and it doesn’t work so you take it back and they give you a NEW one. You buy a Vehicle that doesn’t work you take it back and they TRY to fix it till your sick of there incompetence and fix it yourself, or hire a lawyer, pay more money, to enforce the lemon law, I just don’t get it.

You buy a Vehicle that doesn’t work you take it back and they TRY to fix it till your sick of there incompetence and fix it yourself, or hire a lawyer, pay more money, to enforce the lemon law, I just don’t get it.

Hang in there,It took them three month`s to fix mine, but really one week ( after they
hired a mech that had training in sprinter`s) . They had replaced the filter head to
no avail........sprinter tech traced the problem to a bad injector pump..
Untill then, it would not crank at all.

21k later and still runs like a top.(I`m happy

)

Author:	BadMoose [ Mon Jun 09, 2008 12:54 pm ]
Post subject:	Dealer CAN’T fix my CRD
Big surprise don’t you think? What should my next step be? Has anyone else run into a problem that Chrysler can’t fix? What did they do for you? I have 45k on it now my extended warrantee is good for another 25K about 2 more years. As it stands now I have to bleed it off daily. 98% of the time I have to crank it for 45 to 55 seconds before it will fire and run, and once in a while it just dies and you have to get out a bleed it off to get it to restart. The Dealer has a call into Chrysler or so they have told me.

Author:	cerich [ Mon Jun 09, 2008 1:05 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Dealer CAN’T fix my CRD
BadMoose wrote: Big surprise don’t you think? What should my next step be? Has anyone else run into a problem that Chrysler can’t fix? What did they do for you? I have 45k on it now my extended warrantee is good for another 25K about 2 more years. As it stands now I have to bleed it off daily. 98% of the time I have to crank it for 45 to 55 seconds before it will fire and run, and once in a while it just dies and you have to get out a bleed it off to get it to restart. The Dealer has a call into Chrysler or so they have told me. Of course they can 'fix" it, it being just more work than the dealer wants to do without the billable hours being pre approved by STAR. That being said even if they do get it fixed, it most likely won't be permanent.... the permanent fix is a "cummins lift pump fuel filter" mod.

Author:	msilbernagel [ Mon Jun 09, 2008 3:03 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Dealer CAN’T fix my CRD
Hey Moose, I got that error once (large leak). I'd wired in a small fuel pump between the tank and fuel filter assembly - in the engine compartment. Now, I'd used a lot of overlap on the hose, and very tight clamps to make certain there were not leaks. I still got the "Large fuel leak" codes.. Now, I was using blended fuel at the time (some vegoil), so the fuel was also thicker than normal... My best understanding of the dynamic is this: The snap-on fuel fittings used where the the fuel lines attach to the fuel tank were designed primarily for a pressurized system - NOT for a system under vacuum. BECAUSE they don't use an in-tank fuel pump, the CP3 attached to the engine has to PULL A VACUUM - drawing fuel out of the tank, through the lines, through the filter, and finally into the engine. The filter is also the highest point in the system, so any air introduced tends to collect there and eventually cause problems (instead of passing through and returning to the tank as it arrives). SO... my guess is that some combination of things (partially plugged filter, or poorly functioning connector, frisky CP3 pulling too hard, etc) is causing the air to either enter (it IS a vacuum after all, so there is the possibility of cavitation) at the fittings or somewhere like that. It could be that the vacuum also preserves the air bubbles created by agitation in the tank and from fuel returning from the engine... I removed the pump and things went back to normal. I later had EGR/FCV problems and the dealer saw the fuel leak codes - and blamed a sticking fuel cap. So, I paid for a replacement cap... (!) I still think it was the fittings back at the tank. I believe those that use the in-tank pump fix this systemic problem by pressurizing the entire system. To summarize, it's a systemic design-type of problem that the system pretty much works but a little deviation from ideal conditions causes it to begin to fail..and since it isn't often a 'hard failure' we all learn to live with poorer throttle response, additional smoke, hesitation, priming issues, etc as a result. It's a bear to nail this one down, because the air causes a lot of little nuisances that you can live with for a while - seldom just making it stop so that you can identify and fix (once and for all) the real cause. My thoughts. Mark - BadMoose wrote: Big surprise don’t you think? What should my next step be? Has anyone else run into a problem that Chrysler can’t fix? What did they do for you? I have 45k on it now my extended warrantee is good for another 25K about 2 more years. As it stands now I have to bleed it off daily. 98% of the time I have to crank it for 45 to 55 seconds before it will fire and run, and once in a while it just dies and you have to get out a bleed it off to get it to restart. The Dealer has a call into Chrysler or so they have told me.

Author:	Threeweight [ Mon Jun 09, 2008 3:16 pm ]
Post subject:
Have they installed a new filter head yet? If not, that should be step 1. If the leak is elsewhere in the system, they should replace the fuel line back to the tank and see what it does. Is this a dealer that also sells Sprinters, or diesel Dodge pickups? If not, that might be the source of your problem (no knowledge of diesel repairs). A lift pump may solve things, but it sounds like your leak is so bad you'll just start spewing diesel somewhere. A high-grade filter head (like the Racor 245) could also solve the problem. Neither will be installed without voiding your warranty.

Author:	Joe Romas [ Mon Jun 09, 2008 3:28 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Dealer CAN’T fix my CRD
msilbernagel wrote: The snap-on fuel fittings used where the the fuel lines attach to the fuel tank were designed primarily for a pressurized system - NOT for a system under vacuum. I believe those that use the in-tank pump fix this systemic problem by pressurizing the entire system. To summarize, it's a systemic design-type of problem that the system pretty much works but a little deviation from ideal conditions causes it to begin to fail..and since it isn't often a 'hard failure' we all learn to live with poorer throttle response, additional smoke, hesitation, priming issues, etc as a result. My thoughts. Mark I agree 110% with your thoughts When installing my intank pump I could not believe how easily the fittings went back together on the fuel lines by the tank The fact they have all the circuitry there for a pump indicates to me they, Chrysler/Jeep, knew it needed a lift pump and for some reason left it off. Most likely a bean counter decision I first put a pump in the engine compartment to verify it would cure my 55 mph stutter problem. It did and so the intank pump was the logical solution and it runs even better with the Cummins pump pushing fuel foward from the source. It will be interesting to see how Chrysler resolves his problem. I'm betting all new fuel lines that will fail again down the road

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Author:	BadMoose [ Mon Jun 09, 2008 5:20 pm ]
Post subject:
This is what they have replaced so far, first was the Fuel Filter Head & Filter, second was not sure exactly what it’s called but they referred to it at the tank pickup, and last was all new fuel lines. It was in the shop for 5 weeks most of the time waiting for parts. It has not shuddered on me once in the last year that I can recall, just up and quit on me yes 4 or 5 times, and the long cranking to started about 6 months ago started 5 weeks ago. No CEL’s at all. And I could see no visible leaks any place, and when I made mention of a lift pump I was told it would void the warrantee.

Author:	Threeweight [ Mon Jun 09, 2008 6:49 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Dealer CAN’T fix my CRD
Joe Romas wrote: The fact they have all the circuitry there for a pump indicates to me they, Chrysler/Jeep, knew it needed a lift pump and for some reason left it off. Most likely a bean counter decision Probably a bean counter decision, but nothing to do with diesel. They used the same wiring harness as the gasser, which has an in-tank fuel pump. I don't think any of the VM diesels used in the Liberty CRD's over the years had lift pumps.

Author:	Threeweight [ Mon Jun 09, 2008 6:54 pm ]
Post subject:
BadMoose wrote: This is what they have replaced so far, first was the Fuel Filter Head & Filter, second was not sure exactly what it’s called but they referred to it at the tank pickup, and last was all new fuel lines. It was in the shop for 5 weeks most of the time waiting for parts. It has not shuddered on me once in the last year that I can recall, just up and quit on me yes 4 or 5 times, and the long cranking to started about 6 months ago started 5 weeks ago. No CEL’s at all. And I could see no visible leaks any place, and when I made mention of a lift pump I was told it would void the warrantee. Well, thats all the stuff I would suspect offhand (assuming they actually replaced it all.) Has it performed any better/worse as each new part was added? Something in the system is causing it to lose prime... If they have replaced everything between the filter head and the fuel tank, I'd look to the link between the filter head and the rail, both in terms of the fuel line and the gear-driven pump on the engine that creates vacuum to siphon fuel through the system. Gotta be a fairly substantial leak in there somewhere for the Jeep to die after being bled.

Author:	dgeist [ Mon Jun 09, 2008 7:19 pm ]
Post subject:	It's still mopar, right?
So, it's still Mopar, right (the Cummins lift pump). So, ask them if they'll do the lift pump (with instructions from here, of course) and if it fixes the problem to document it as such with Chrysler so that it doesn't void your warranty. Dan

Author:	Joe Romas [ Mon Jun 09, 2008 8:17 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: It's still mopar, right?
dgeist wrote: So, it's still Mopar, right (the Cummins lift pump). So, ask them if they'll do the lift pump (with instructions from here, of course) and if it fixes the problem to document it as such with Chrysler so that it doesn't void your warranty. Dan Good idea but in current corporate thinking that would establish a "precedent" and leave them open to a suit to put them in all crd's Threeweight. The Power distribution box is clearly diesel specific because it has positions marked "prime pump and "glo plugs" Joe

Author:	BadMoose [ Tue Jun 10, 2008 8:30 am ]
Post subject:
I did suggest they do the lift pump mod as on here, I was told they can’t do anything that’s not Chrysler approved and it would void my warrantee. Wonder if it would void the warrantee on the rest of the drive train (transmission, transfer case, axles, etc.). I guess if I want it fixed I’ll have to do it myself. Why is it you go to the store buy a washing machine bring it home and it doesn’t work so you take it back and they give you a NEW one. You buy a Vehicle that doesn’t work you take it back and they TRY to fix it till your sick of there incompetence and fix it yourself, or hire a lawyer, pay more money, to enforce the lemon law, I just don’t get it.

Author:	dgeist [ Tue Jun 10, 2008 10:45 am ]
Post subject:
BadMoose wrote: I did suggest they do the lift pump mod as on here, I was told they can’t do anything that’s not Chrysler approved and it would void my warrantee. Wonder if it would void the warrantee on the rest of the drive train (transmission, transfer case, axles, etc.). I guess if I want it fixed I’ll have to do it myself. Why is it you go to the store buy a washing machine bring it home and it doesn’t work so you take it back and they give you a NEW one. You buy a Vehicle that doesn’t work you take it back and they TRY to fix it till your sick of there incompetence and fix it yourself, or hire a lawyer, pay more money, to enforce the lemon law, I just don’t get it. If they can't figure it out, just ask for your money back. Obviously they're not willing to meet their end of the warranty.

Author:	Joe Romas [ Tue Jun 10, 2008 12:10 pm ]
Post subject:
BadMoose wrote: You buy a Vehicle that doesn’t work you take it back and they TRY to fix it till your sick of there incompetence and fix it yourself, or hire a lawyer, pay more money, to enforce the lemon law, I just don’t get it. Maybe that's one reason why even before $4 a gallon gas Toyoto and Honda were in better shape then the former "big" now just "detroit" three Nobody builds a perfect car so real support after the sale is important both from the maker and dealer. Your dealer's hands are tied by Chrysler that has no incentive to correct problems on a product that in there mind is a dead horse Joe

Author:	litton [ Tue Jun 10, 2008 12:26 pm ]
Post subject:
You need to keep the pressure on the dealer. Get the service manager involved, ask for a meeting with the district service rep and keep the dealer owner cc'd on correspondance. While we know there is a fix going aftermarker, but repair responsibility for it lies directly in the lap of Jeep. Not fixing it is really not an option. What the dealer wants is for you to through up your hands and walk away.

Author:	BadMoose [ Wed Jun 11, 2008 1:12 pm ]
Post subject:
I’m over the 60,000 mile mark. How’s your dealer handling it? I feel like mine is doing as little as possible.

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Author:	onthehunt [ Tue Jun 10, 2008 5:29 pm ]
Post subject:
Have Chrysler tow it to a competent dealer. They will pay for the tow. Happens all the time with Sprinters.

Author:	erockskj [ Wed Jun 11, 2008 11:06 am ]
Post subject:	dealer remorse
Hang in there,It took them three month`s to fix mine, but really one week ( after they hired a mech that had training in sprinter`s) . They had replaced the filter head to no avail........sprinter tech traced the problem to a bad injector pump.. Untill then, it would not crank at all. 21k later and still runs like a top.(I`m happy )

Author:	MooseMeat [ Wed Jun 11, 2008 12:20 pm ]
Post subject:
I have been having the exact same problems so far they have replaced the filter head and filter, lines, and the tank pickup. How many miles on your CRD, I have just over 49k.

Author:	MooseMeat [ Wed Jun 11, 2008 1:22 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: dealer remorse
erockskj wrote: Hang in there,It took them three month`s to fix mine, but really one week ( after they hired a mech that had training in sprinter`s) . They had replaced the filter head to no avail........sprinter tech traced the problem to a bad injector pump.. Untill then, it would not crank at all. 21k later and still runs like a top.(I`m happy ) erockskj The injector pump was letting air into the system? And BadMoose my dealer has always been decent, no real complaints other than time, mostly waiting for parts I believe.

Author:	Cowpie1 [ Thu Jun 12, 2008 10:45 pm ]
Post subject:
Just a thought on all of this.... On these extended warranty plans, wouldn't they work with a Non chrysler outfit? I have a Wynn's extended warranty and the only plus to going to the dealer is that the $50 deductable is waived. Otherwise I can go to any reputable shop. If that is the case for anyone else, why not just bypass the dealers and go to a reputable diesel shop like Diesel Injection or similar shop? They more than any dealer would know what ails the diesel in the Jeep, or at least have a lot more experience in diagnostics. Especially when it comes to fuel issues. They would know how to properly install a new fuel filter assembly and lift pump if that is the problem. I would sure trust a diesel only shop as a best alternative to a dealer that only understands gassers. The diesel shop might not know a lot about the VM engine in the liberty, but I would darn well bet that they know how to isolate a problem and come up with a solution better than any dealership. Heck, if I need work done on my Detroit Diesel, I sure don't go to the Freightliner dealership and have them screw it up. I go to a reputable diesel engine shop that only concentrates their efforts on engines. Why not do the same with our CRD's? Heck, a lot of Cummins powered pickup owners go direct to a Cummins engine shop and don't even consider the dealer. I see these being worked on in Cummins shops all the time right along side of semi trucks. Just a thought. Would be curious on what others think of this. Oh... regarding the fuel filter assembly. I went ahead and ordered one from www.wholesalemopar.com for a little over a hundred bucks (had a 5% discount on top of wholesale price) and put it on almost as fast as changing a filter. That would work until you decide to go with another setup or lift pump. Why wait for a dealer to decide to do something? Took only a few minutes and cured the leaking filter head assembly problem. Now, I have time to research out the possibilites on what I want to do to have a more permanent solution to the problem.