Intake Manifold Sludge Discussion

alljeep · **Posted:** Mon Dec 03, 2007 11:34 am

I pulled this link from the CRD Tech section of a VW TDI with a clogged intake manifold due to CCV oil and gas recirculation along with exhaust gas recirculation. Check out the last picture.

http://home.nc.rr.com/aljohnson/_sgg/m3m1_1.htm

Thus far I have been running un-modified in my engine compartment but am still early on in miles (24.7k). Has anyone with high miles on one of our CRDs, running unmodified, checked their intake manifold to see if there is a problem as severe as shown in the link above?

I've kind of come to the conclusion that if it plugs at 200k miles, I don't care as much as if it bites the dust at 70k-100k.

Since we have a different engine than the TDI, with different flow rates for exhaust, CCV gasses, ect - do we have a problem that is confirmed as severe as what is depicted above? Or are we still just in the category of known problems without knowledge of long term severity?

I'm not looking for a discussion on how I should just do the EHM and not worry, I'm really really curious to know about real world observations from all of you.

dgeist · **Posted:** Mon Dec 03, 2007 11:54 am

alljeep wrote:

I pulled this link from the CRD Tech section of a VW TDI with a clogged intake manifold due to CCV oil and gas recirculation along with exhaust gas recirculation. Check out the last picture.

http://home.nc.rr.com/aljohnson/_sgg/m3m1_1.htm

Thus far I have been running un-modified in my engine compartment but am still early on in miles (24.7k). Has anyone with high miles on one of our CRDs, running unmodified, checked their intake manifold to see if there is a problem as severe as shown in the link above?

I have less than 15k miles and I took off the FCV a month ago to clean everything when I installed my pro-vent. I used a lysol wipe to probe around the inside of the manifold feeder just downstream of the input from the EGR and I got what was the consistency of charred marshmallow (gooey carbon deposits) all over the wipe. It wasn't as bad as that picture, but my mileage is relatively low. I'm not so much concerned about the "konk-out" factor as much as the gradual and increasing loss of performance and efficiency.

Joe Romas · **Posted:** Mon Dec 03, 2007 1:30 pm

My 99.5 jetta tdi's manifold looked like that at just under 60k miles and the egr rate was even turned down using vag-com :cry:

DZL_LOU · **Posted:** Mon Dec 03, 2007 1:52 pm

alljeep wrote:

I'm not looking for a discussion on how I should just do the EHM and not worry, I'm really really curious to know about real world observations from all of you.

I don't think any of us have been able to clean out the intake as properly as it could be on a TDI. I wish this was a do-it yourself job on the CRD. I have cleaned out and replaced the EGR FCV at 25K and it was sludge snot and that's without running a PROVENT for the firs 25K.

The schematics for removing the intake are much more involved as the FCV is just a window into what I would expect to see in the intake cavity. From memory, for separatig the intake from the engine block, I think you have to remove the injectors and fuel rail and then worry about the balance shafts.

If some brave soul already did this sure would be nice to post some pictures.

gmctd · **Posted:** Mon Dec 03, 2007 2:02 pm

The aluminum engine cover is a one-piece casting combining the DOHC cam carriers and the intake manifold - removing the intake manifold involves re-timing the camshafts and resetting the valve clearances - not a job for the intrepid weekend warrior, intent on cleaning out the intake path, or I would already have done so for show'n'tell

Guess we'll just have to depend on high velocity wind erosion...............

FYI - the twin balance shafts are at the bottom of the block in the crankcase, gear-driven off the crankshaft\timing train

alljeep · **Posted:** Mon Dec 03, 2007 2:40 pm

Sounds like reports of the intake manifold will be scarce to nil. But, the information regarding the condition of the FCV, or any part inline with this problem is appreciated.

Sometime this month I'm pulling my CAC hoses off for inspection. I wonder if there will be any significant build up at the CAC hose-engine connection (after the CAC cooler). Anyone observe any build up there?

Just wondering how far I need to go. Seems like every time in the past I modified something there was a need for a recall or warranty item that would force me to remove everything shortly thereafter and I'm real tired of installing and uninstalling. I had the EHM installed at 14k miles, then had to remove it about 750 miles later due to F37. Just a real pain. With a year to go on the warranty and a bad back to boot I'm gettin' tired out

gmctd · **Posted:** Mon Dec 03, 2007 2:57 pm

Nothing but a thick oily slime - the cac hosing is way ahead of the EGR port, which is on the intake side of the FCV - cleaning the MAP sensor will give you some idea of the combined accumulation, but with some loss of blowby oil in the cac, due to cooling - at 50kmi, I've been wanting to pull our cac for a good cleaning, but don't get hands-on with it, much

Uffe · **Posted:** Mon Dec 03, 2007 6:11 pm

Eep.

Why can't you just open up the intake by removing the intercooler hoses going to the engine and taking a vacuum cleaner and a toothbrush and just slowly creep around the cake for crumbs?

Someone do my idea and tell me if their engine died afterwards !

gmctd · **Posted:** Mon Dec 03, 2007 6:20 pm

Since yours is an ought three, check the intake plenum, see if it is bolted to the side of the aluminum cover - should be a series of horizontal bolts along the side facing the battery................

BlackLibertyCRD · **Posted:** Mon Dec 03, 2007 7:21 pm

the exhaust manifold is bolted to the cylinder head cover. The intake is part of the cylinder head cover as well as the camshaft and quite a few other parts I wouldn't want to mess with. Safest you can do is remove the FCV and clean that and maybe a little beyond.

COVER-CYLINDER HEAD

DESCRIPTION
The cylinder head cover and the intake manifold on
this engine are made of cast aluminum. The cylinder
head cover also incorporates a oil drain back hole for
the crankcase ventilation (CCV) system..

onthehunt · **Posted:** Mon Dec 03, 2007 9:02 pm

I thought the vw's plugged up because of a design flaw. Something about a 90 degree angle in the wrong spot?? Anybody?

Goglio704 · **Posted:** Mon Dec 03, 2007 10:31 pm

My Nissan's have EGR valves and unfiltered CCV, but no turbo. I recently cleaned one of the intake manifolds. With 150k miles on it, there were deposits an inch thick in one part of the manifold. I believe this problem is inherent to EGR diesels with CCV. Some designs suffer more than others, and fuel and driving habits probably play a part also. All the pictures of clogged up MAP sensors are a clue to what is going on in the CRD. The MAP sensor may be the worst point of buildup for all I know, but it may not. Time will tell.

UFO · **Posted:** Tue Dec 04, 2007 2:01 am

Save the diesels!

Doctor B · **Posted:** Thu Jun 05, 2008 2:59 pm

So, after all this reading about the need for mods, and the TDI pic of the clogged manifold, I am up to the challenge - but a bit freaked out - as I just bought an 06 CRD that's got 58k on it - no mods that I can see - but it runs like a top - totally stock. I haven't looked at the MAP nor into the EGR/FCV yet. I'm about to do the EHM and ORM anyway, and a Fumoto because the drain pan plug hole is stripped smooth - retapping to 18mm - 1.5 this weekend and putting on an F-104.
I also need to look at the brake interlock linkage as it's locked in park a couple times on me. Any tips there would be nice too! I know - wrong section of forum - whatever.
So back to the manifold gunk - everyone seems to be saying it's no easy access to do a cleaning - is there any other way? perhaps chemically? I'd like to try something else rather than the major tear down and hot tub. Somebody mentioned "seafoam" in the fuel - it that viable? How about a spray of something into the air intake while running the engine - like cleaning a carb? Is that too insane? Will that just wash the gunk into the engine? HALP! Thanks.

ATXKJ · **Posted:** Thu Jun 05, 2008 3:49 pm

The only one who's mentioned cleaning - was DieselToyz - he bought a wreck for the engine and ended up pulling apart the top end to clean it - sounded like a mess.

A good idea is to pull the MAP sensor - whatever's coating it is also coating the rest of the intake
http://www.lostjeeps.com/forum/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?t=22630

however - no good ideas on cleaning.

fastRob · **Posted:** Thu Jun 05, 2008 6:06 pm

Doctor B wrote:

So, after all this reading about the need for mods, and the TDI pic of the clogged manifold, I am up to the challenge - but a bit freaked out - as I just bought an 06 CRD that's got 58k on it - no mods that I can see - but it runs like a top - totally stock. I haven't looked at the MAP nor into the EGR/FCV yet. I'm about to do the EHM and ORM anyway, and a Fumoto because the drain pan plug hole is stripped smooth - retapping to 18mm - 1.5 this weekend and putting on an F-104.
I also need to look at the brake interlock linkage as it's locked in park a couple times on me. Any tips there would be nice too! I know - wrong section of forum - whatever.
So back to the manifold gunk - everyone seems to be saying it's no easy access to do a cleaning - is there any other way? perhaps chemically? I'd like to try something else rather than the major tear down and hot tub. Somebody mentioned "seafoam" in the fuel - it that viable? How about a spray of something into the air intake while running the engine - like cleaning a carb? Is that too insane? Will that just wash the gunk into the engine? HALP! Thanks.

Doc B,

Good to have you with us here.
We all probably have manifold goop just like the MAP sensor did. Cleaning it was the #1 immediate performance increase on my CRD so far.
Lately I have been doing additive experiments. Will see the effects when it is oil change time and I check the MAP sensor.

widowmaker · **Posted:** Thu Jun 05, 2008 6:22 pm

I cleaned the MAP at 50,000 miles and it was totally gooped up. Even looking in the hole I could see crud. This weekend at 90,000 miles, I pulled the MAP and it was as clean as could be, with only a light film of oil on it. Only mod that I have done is the ORM and I feel much better that my intake is not filled with crud.

Next month I will have to start looking into the timing belt change....uggh

blake1827 · **Posted:** Thu Jun 05, 2008 8:22 pm

I'm @ 28K the last 8K running ORM cleaning the MAP every oil change (6K), didn't see much if any difference at 24K, but hope to see it improve or may consider plumbing in the Provent. This was my biggest worry when purchasing the CRD.

flash7210 · **Posted:** Thu Jun 05, 2008 9:35 pm

So what about chemical cleaners?

What if you were to spray cleaner up into the intake with the engine off.
Then, pull the fuse for the fuel injection and remove the glow plugs..
Then, crank the engine.

Any cleaner that went into the cylinders will get shot out the glow plug holes.

Hook everything back up and drive it hard to break up any remaining loose
gook. Then, change the oil.
Sound like it would work???

Also, if removing the intake manifold is really such a difficult task, then
maybe it can be done during timing belt replacement.

Doctor B · **Posted:** Thu Jun 05, 2008 11:19 pm

OK - so I finally took off the MAP sensor and it was a gooey mess - like the one I've seen pictured in a thread somewhere here - cleaned up nicely with some B-12 Chemtool. I also swabbed out the hole a bit with a number of Q-Tips. Probably not much effect overall, but it cleaned the immediate hole anyway. I also put on my EHM, and did the ORM. I'm waiting for my SGII to arrive. It already runs quieter and stronger. Amazing really. I'm going to try to do a Seafoam purge perhaps - or maybe just put it in my tank. I dunno. I'm reading many threads on it, but it's not clear what's best. But I'm not up to taking it apart and cleaning the intake manifold. Won't it just char up and burn off eventually - if the mods are in place?

Intake Manifold Sludge Discussion

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