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| GTL fuel http://www.lostjeeps.com/forum/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=33201 |
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| Author: | alclubb [ Wed Jun 11, 2008 10:49 am ] |
| Post subject: | GTL fuel |
Does anyone know when or if we will ever get GTL diesel fuel in the US? I understand it is available in Europe and other places over seas. What is wrong with our government that it won't support projects like Shell and Chevron have that would give us plenty of diesel fuel with lower emissions. |
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| Author: | maxxgraphix [ Wed Jun 11, 2008 11:41 am ] |
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It's about the money. |
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| Author: | dgeist [ Wed Jun 11, 2008 1:11 pm ] |
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...the lack of altruism and desire for the wellbeing of others as primary motivators in decision-making. |
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| Author: | litton [ Wed Jun 11, 2008 2:21 pm ] |
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Don't know what GTL fuel is or what it does. However, the cost of Diesel in Europe is so high, they better get something fancy. |
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| Author: | alclubb [ Wed Jun 11, 2008 3:22 pm ] |
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GTL = Gas to Liquid. Shell and Conoco are both making diesel fuel from natural gas. It is very low emissions and natural gas is plentiful. |
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| Author: | kjfishman [ Wed Jun 11, 2008 3:26 pm ] |
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alclubb wrote: GTL = Gas to Liquid. Shell and Conoco are both making diesel fuel from natural gas. It is very low emissions and natural gas is plentiful.
I know what you mean, I have a natural gas problem if I don't watch what I eat. But I didn't know I could be making fuel for my CRD with it! Honey put on that pot of beans! 
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| Author: | Sir Sam [ Wed Jun 11, 2008 3:28 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: GTL fuel |
There are GTL programs here in the US, but not in widespread use and I do not think any of that fuel is available to the public. |
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| Author: | MOSFET [ Wed Jun 11, 2008 3:56 pm ] |
| Post subject: | GTL |
http://www.gepower.com/businesses/ge_oilandgas/en/applications/gtl.htm The link above describes GTL technology. Basically, as I understand it GTL enables the conversion of gas to liquid fuels, and the gas can be obtained from solid (e.g., waste, coal) or gaseous (e.g., methane, natural gas) sources. The output is regular gasoline and/or diesel based on how it is refined. |
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| Author: | litton [ Wed Jun 11, 2008 4:31 pm ] |
| Post subject: | |
OK, dug into it a bit but the kicker is that they need natural gas at $1.00 and right now it's at $13.00. No way it's commercially viable unless you have a lot of really cheap gas. Best guess is that GTL diesel would cost about $7 -$8.00/ gal minimum in the states. Another downside is that the increased demand for gas would then cause the price to go even higher. Kind of like using food grain to make ethanol......just not enough to make both food and fuel so everything has to go up in cost. Stupid bloody idea. |
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| Author: | Threeweight [ Wed Jun 11, 2008 7:03 pm ] |
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What Litton said. It can't work commercially without huge government subsidies to pay for the natural gas, which is why the oil industry is whining about the federal government "not supporting clean, home grown energy sources like GTL." |
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| Author: | MOSFET [ Wed Jun 11, 2008 7:57 pm ] |
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The gas used as the input can be natural gas, or it can be syngas. Syngas is gas obtained from coal, garbage, industrial waste, etc. As one example, solid coal can be converted into syngas, and then the syngas is converted into liquid fuel. We have a lot of coal in this country. |
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| Author: | Threeweight [ Wed Jun 11, 2008 8:27 pm ] |
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Yah, but it takes energy inputs to extract the gas from it. If coal gasification (and then to GTL fuels) were economically feasible without a subsidy from taxpayers, commercial coal operations would already be doing it. |
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| Author: | litton [ Wed Jun 11, 2008 8:39 pm ] |
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The basic problem is that you're simply substituting one hydrocarbon for another and their ain't no free lunch. All of that stuff is tough to get and then convert to a usable product. Natural gas is the easiest and cheapest. No matter how you cut it, oil is still the best, most plentiful, and cheapest hydrocarbon available. Unfortunately, any other alternative will require massive changes to the infrastructure for distribution and someone (guess who) has to foot the bill. Go diesel electric and life gets much easier and everything is available. My rented priius got 50 mpg last week running through the Eastern Sierras with no attempt at conservation. Can you imagine what a little 1 L diesel would do instead of the gasser.....65 to 70???? Hell now we're in Vespa class. |
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| Author: | MOSFET [ Wed Jun 11, 2008 8:43 pm ] |
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Threeweight wrote: Yah, but it takes energy inputs to extract the gas from it. It takes energy to do most everything. It takes energy to mine coal, to pump crude oil, to transport fuels, to process fuels, etc. It also takes energy to produce solar cells, create hydroelectric dams and make wind turbines. How is this a bad thing, it is the way the world works. Quote: If coal gasification (and then to GTL fuels) were economically feasible without a subsidy from taxpayers, commercial coal operations would already be doing it.
See http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sasol for a "doing it" and economically profitable example. Also for general interest. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Coal The bottom line here is how do we (the USA) wean ourselves off of foreign oil and natural gas. It would be great to be more energy independent. We need to look at all options for generating energy and fuel. Sadly, there is no one magic fuel or energy source. However, there are many options that can help us get to energy independence. We should consider, but not limit ourselves to, nuclear, solar, wind, hydro, biofuels, coal and expanded domestic drilling. Maybe they can't all be up and running in 10 minutes, but if we can be patient and have a long term plan, we might just be a lot better off in the years to come. |
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| Author: | flash7210 [ Wed Jun 11, 2008 9:37 pm ] |
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What about this stuff? 
I read somewhere that this is supposed to be similar to GTL fuel but I cant find any info about it. Buy it here: http://www.hiperfuels.com/catalog.aspx?Merchant=highfuelsn&DeptID=81049 |
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| Author: | onthehunt [ Thu Jun 12, 2008 12:05 am ] |
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Wow thats cheap- $65 for 5 gallons. Kinda like buying nitromethane for your Camry. |
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| Author: | blake1827 [ Thu Jun 12, 2008 1:39 am ] |
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I also posted about this a while ago: http://www.lostjeeps.com/forum/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?t=30359&highlight= |
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| Author: | Uffe [ Thu Jun 12, 2008 2:40 am ] |
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Have a look at this wiki bit if you're interested in GTL. They use the Fischer-Tropsch process. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fischer-Tropsch Actually this was used during WW2 to power the german wehrmacht because it got cut off from the oil fields in Russia 
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