I've had enough....

MaineSleddah · **Posted:** Sun Jul 13, 2008 9:43 pm

With diesel around here running $4.799 to $5.049 a gallon and home heating oil running $4.299 to $4.79 per gallon, I've decided to attend a biodiesel workshop and purchase a FuelMeisterII biodiesel home processor. I'm going to run the CRD on B100 during the summer and B50 in the winter and heat the house and my hot water with B100 all year long. My figures come in at about $1.55 per gallon ready to use.
Frig the darn Opec nations and their strangle hold on my world. :evil:

I am thru with that :!:

Besides how bad can it be to smell french fries everywhere you drive? :lol:

maxxgraphix · **Joined:** Wed Mar 26, 2008 8:11 am **Posts:** 53

Good luck getting that much vegi oil. Your in competition with the big refineries.

greiswig · **Posted:** Sun Jul 13, 2008 11:10 pm

MaineSleddah wrote:

With diesel around here running $4.799 to $5.049 a gallon and home heating oil running $4.299 to $4.79 per gallon, I've decided to attend a biodiesel workshop and purchase a FuelMeisterII biodiesel home processor. I'm going to run the CRD on B100 during the summer and B50 in the winter and heat the house and my hot water with B100 all year long. My figures come in at about $1.55 per gallon ready to use.
Frig the darn Opec nations and their strangle hold on my world. :evil:

I am thru with that :!:

Besides how bad can it be to smell french fries everywhere you drive? :lol:

Please look into other alternatives, too. The idea of hot oil in plastic containers with a heating element just doesn't seem right to me. Google "appleseed processor" for a low-cost alternative that is much safer. If you've got the bucks (which it sounds like is precisely NOT the point), look at the BioPro processors.

STATELINE · **Posted:** Mon Jul 14, 2008 5:01 am

maxxgraphix wrote:

Good luck getting that much vegi oil. Your in competition with the big refineries.

what he said, make sure you check into getting a supply of used oil first. i'm sure it's in high demand at this point. having a processor with nothing to process won't get you anywhere

JIMMY JEEP · **Posted:** Mon Jul 14, 2008 5:49 am

Opec have the whole globe to ransom with oil,many have said throughout the last 2000yrs that trouble in the middle east will eventually lead to mankinds demise. Over there they have sand ,lots of sand and oil ,so they a cashing in on it now before it runs out..Some are predicting $400 a barrel by the end of the year.People wont be able to heat there homes ,food prices will soar ,only the rich will be able to run there cars.War for oil may not be far away . It has already happened in Iraq.

Threeweight · **Joined:** Mon May 14, 2007 5:57 pm **Posts:** 679

More than just OPEC. High oil prices are making the Russian population smile and cheer as their government backslides into dictatorship (but keeps the $$ flowing to the population). Of course, you-know-who looked in Putin's eyes and saw that "he was a good man." Not sure if this was before or after Putin's secret police started killing pro-democracy activists through radiation poisoning. Same thing in central Asia (Google Kazakhstan, oil, and human rights, you'll find more than just Borat). And in the Americas, we have Chavez in Venezuela.

More reason to wean ourselves off fossil fuels.

jinstall · **Posted:** Mon Jul 14, 2008 2:53 pm

JIMMY JEEP wrote:

Opec have the whole globe to ransom with oil,many have said throughout the last 2000yrs that trouble in the middle east will eventually lead to mankinds demise. Over there they have sand ,lots of sand and oil ,so they a cashing in on it now before it runs out..Some are predicting $400 a barrel by the end of the year.People wont be able to heat there homes ,food prices will soar ,only the rich will be able to run there cars.War for oil may not be far away . It has already happened in Iraq.

Oh please, do not bring Iraq into this. I am sick and tired of listening to people witch about Oil War in Iraq. There is alot more going on there and it is not oil. Try Googling Brazil-Oil and see what's going on down there if you want to witch about war and oil.

I for one am hoping for $200 a barrel oil so the lazy Americans can finally figure out what the rst of the world has been doing for the past 20 years. It is great to drive on base and see all the giant SUV's parked not going anywhere.

jinstall · **Posted:** Mon Jul 14, 2008 2:56 pm

Threeweight wrote:

More than just OPEC. High oil prices are making the Russian population smile and cheer as their government backslides into dictatorship (but keeps the $$ flowing to the population). Of course, you-know-who looked in Putin's eyes and saw that "he was a good man." Not sure if this was before or after Putin's secret police started killing pro-democracy activists through radiation poisoning. Same thing in central Asia (Google Kazakhstan, oil, and human rights, you'll find more than just Borat). And in the Americas, we have Chavez in Venezuela.

More reason to wean ourselves off fossil fuels.

According to the news here it is not oil but GAS that is feeding Mother Russia (Gasprom), funny ex-chancelar Schroder is now working there. Hmmm never saw that coming :roll:

Threeweight · **Joined:** Mon May 14, 2007 5:57 pm **Posts:** 679

jinstall wrote:

Oh please, do not bring Iraq into this. I am sick and tired of listening to people &^%$( about Oil War in Iraq. There is alot more going on there and it is not oil. Try Googling Brazil-Oil and see what's going on down there if you want to &^%$( about war and oil.

I don't disagree that there is a lot on the table in Iraq beyond just oil, but it is a little silly to think that it wasn't at least in the back of American's collective minds in 2002. The country was told Iraqi oil revenues would pay for the whole thing. You don't exactly see use clamoring to invade Sudan, where an ongoing genocide continues and Al Qaeda maintains training camps and bases to this very day.

The Brazil find is three and a half miles down, under layers of salt and granite. Brazil's state-owned oil company says it will only be profitable to develop if oil prices stay above $125 a barrel. Meaning, it won't do anything to lower the price of oil.

Cheap fuel ain't coming back.

KJ Taz · **Posted:** Mon Jul 14, 2008 3:38 pm

Threeweight wrote:

jinstall wrote:

Oh please, do not bring Iraq into this. I am sick and tired of listening to people &^%$( about Oil War in Iraq. There is alot more going on there and it is not oil. Try Googling Brazil-Oil and see what's going on down there if you want to &^%$( about war and oil.

I don't disagree that there is a lot on the table in Iraq beyond just oil, but it is a little silly to think that it wasn't at least in the back of American's collective minds in 2002. The country was told Iraqi oil revenues would pay for the whole thing. You don't exactly see use clamoring to invade Sudan, where an ongoing genocide continues and Al Qaeda maintains training camps and bases to this very day.

The Brazil find is three and a half miles down, under layers of salt and granite. Brazil's state-owned oil company says it will only be profitable to develop if oil prices stay above $125 a barrel. Meaning, it won't do anything to lower the price of oil.

Cheap fuel ain't coming back.

The US sits on top of tons of oil............................we really don't need to be exporting any...........but we don't use it and we aren't allowing refineries to be built (except one now, in the last 20+ years)..........hummmmmmm can you say we dug our own grave? Or is all just a part of a conspiracy to get the other countries to run out then they will have to depend on us? Hummmmmm lmao.

Threeweight · **Joined:** Mon May 14, 2007 5:57 pm **Posts:** 679

KJ Taz wrote:

The US sits on top of tons of oil............................we really don't need to be exporting any...........but we don't use it and we aren't allowing refineries to be built (except one now, in the last 20+ years)..........hummmmmmm can you say we dug our own grave? Or is all just a part of a conspiracy to get the other countries to run out then they will have to depend on us? Hummmmmm lmao.

And yet our existing domestic refineries run at only 80% of capacity. Unless we are going to pass laws banning the sale of domestically produced oil to countries oversees, we are always going to be stuck in a global market. And US demand is decreasing, yet US prices are increasing.

Oil prices have skyrocketed because of exploding demand in India and China (only going to get worse), speculation in the US and globally (investors parking their money in oil futures rather than real estate, bonds, etc... because it is the next "sure thing" for high dividends), instability in the Middle East (regardless of what anyone thinks, thats still where most of the oil we can get at cheaply resides), and new oil sources increasingly expensive to develop. The nasty fine print of all those "major new find!" stories is that they are all in places that are very, very expensive to develop. With oil nearing $150 a barrel, all sorts of projects become feasible. And if oil drops back below $80 a barrel, they won't be profitable and folks won't develop them.

I posted the cartoon (from the magazine "The Economist") because I think it pretty accurately sums up where America is right now. We need leadership to start moving us out of this mess and away from oil in the long term, and in the short term working to cushion the economic blow and encourage conservation. Banking on new finds 3.5 miles under the Atlantic off Brazil, oil shale in Canada, etc... is no different than a heroin addict trying to find a new dealer. The solution is to stop using.

kdlewis1975 · **Posted:** Mon Jul 14, 2008 6:42 pm

An aspect often overlooked in pumping oil is that you get water with it. The wt% oil in the mixture can be anywhere between <1% to 90%. As the oil well ages, there becomes a point where it yields more water than oil and eventually gets to the point where you only get "dirty water." Saudi Arabia sort of has it made in that their oil/water mix is 75%-90% oil. The rest of us have to deal with the fact that we're pumping more water than oil. Actually here in in the U.S., I've heard that the proportion of the mix we get out of the ground is 25% oil. Unfortunately, all of that water has to be treated and it's not necessarily a trivial excercise to separate the mixture; the pumping process tends to emulsify it. So, we can say that can pump more, but the cost in processing and treating the water may just make it cheaper to buy it elsewhere. I'm hopeful that oil shale can yield something to help lessen the pain in the short term. In the long term though, I agree that we need different sources of power to propell ourselves. I doubt that we could ever produce enough oil to fulfill our needs for growth and keep up with the emerging contries.

I'm always amused when a non-American declares that we're all lazy and sometimes adds fat and dumb to the description. Most of us only get 2 or 3 weeks of vacation per year and a lot of surveys say that we average more hours worked per week than most other countries. Despite our problems, we have a lot of people not from here that would really rather be here than where they are from. And if the need arises and we want to do something badly enough, we'll figure out a way...note... http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Manhatten_project

BVCRD · **Posted:** Mon Jul 14, 2008 7:08 pm

kdlewis1975 wrote:

An aspect often overlooked in pumping oil is that you get water with it. The wt% oil in the mixture can be anywhere between <1% to 90%. As the oil well ages, there becomes a point where it yields more water than oil and eventually gets to the point where you only get "dirty water." Saudi Arabia sort of has it made in that their oil/water mix is 75%-90% oil. The rest of us have to deal with the fact that we're pumping more water than oil. Actually here in in the U.S., I've heard that the proportion of the mix we get out of the ground is 25% oil. Unfortunately, all of that water has to be treated and it's not necessarily a trivial excercise to separate the mixture; the pumping process tends to emulsify it. So, we can say that can pump more, but the cost in processing and treating the water may just make it cheaper to buy it elsewhere. I'm hopeful that oil shale can yield something to help lessen the pain in the short term. In the long term though, I agree that we need different sources of power to propell ourselves. I doubt that we could ever produce enough oil to fulfill our needs for growth and keep up with the emerging contries.

I'm always amused when a non-American declares that we're all lazy and sometimes adds fat and dumb to the description. Most of us only get 2 or 3 weeks of vacation per year and a lot of surveys say that we average more hours worked per week than most other countries. Despite our problems, we have a lot of people not from here that would really rather be here than where they are from. And if the need arises and we want to do something badly enough, we'll figure out a way...note... http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Manhatten_project

Guess you never heard of water injection wells, where they pump the water back into the ground to force oil into the suck zone of the wells. :roll:

kdlewis1975 · **Posted:** Sat Jul 19, 2008 10:59 am

"Guess you never heard of water injection wells, where they pump the water back into the ground to force oil into the suck zone of the wells. :rool:"

Guess you probably know more about what I know than I do. Your knowledge of oil recovery could be put to good use by the next President, so there could be a Cabinet position for you, or you could potentially get a consulting gig with U.S. Representative Dave Camp here in Michigan. He wants to resurrect some abandoned oil wells in Alma, MI and you just might be the person to make it happen. :idea:

Here in central MI, there are actually people with little oil wells in their backyards. When these things ran in their prime probably 20-30 years ago, they probably pumped a few barrels of oil per day. From what I understand from a seminar given at my employer, a good number of these wells have been abandoned because it isn't very practical to pump out a mixture that is 2% oil because treating 49 barrels of water for 1 barrel of oil isn't profitable. Our water table is literally 5 feet below the surface in a lot of places. If someone wanted to, they could do water injection for this extreme case but the increase in yield probably wouldn't justify the cost of doing along with the cost of treating all of the water it's going to generate anyway.

The point is, a lot of well are old enough that they inherently produce an increasing proportion of water. Something generally has to fill the voids the oil previously resided in...some from water injection, some from nature. The wells they might drill on the outer continental shelf someday will probably lead to the same problems as the oil derricks on the North Sea. Environmental regulations stipulate that all water must be treated before being returned back to the see. All of the water that is produced as a byproduct of oil production there is put on a tanker and brought to mainland Europe for treatment. The initial cut is something like 60% oil. The dirty water is treated and it yields a few more percent oil. Whether we drill the OCS or further try to squeeze more oil out of our existing wells, we still have to incur the cost of treating "byproducts" that those in the Arab nations have to worry about to a lesser degree. Despite being closer, out domestic oil may inherently cost more for us to get than simply purchasing it from the Middle East.

truckbouy2 · **Posted:** Sat Jul 19, 2008 12:33 pm

North America has more oil and natural gas hidden below than the Sheiks of the middle east could even dream of.
The oil boys and girls have the technology to get at it and know where it is.
The PROBLEM is in WASHINGTON DC.....................
IT ISN"T SUPPLY.... ITS REFINING CAPACITY.

fastRob · **Posted:** Sat Jul 19, 2008 2:20 pm

Try putting in a refinery, Not In My Back Yard (NIMBY) rules.
The Empire is crumbling, we have turned into a country controlled by Hustlers, Pimps and Whores.
Maybe we can rebuild the country to something good again after the collapse, just have to hang on until then.

truckbouy2 · **Posted:** Sun Jul 20, 2008 9:23 am

Here in the State where NOTHING is allowed (MN) there used to be a Conoco refinery in a northern town called Wrenshall years ago. The storage tanks still remain and Conoco/Phillips still pumps in and transfers
fuel out of there. The refinery equipment was long removed many moons ago. You wouldn't have to aquire the land, the storage tanks are in place, pipelines from Canada are in place, pipelines going out are in place. Perfect setting? Not in this Communist/Socialist better red than dead State of fools. Mr. FastRob's words, "The Empire is crumbling, we have turned into a country controlled by Hustlers, Pimps and Whores. " ring true here. If you ever see Rep. Jim Oberstar head of the Transportation Committee on tv remember his face as I do believe he will be Comandant of the Gulag here.......... :wink:

Uffe · **Posted:** Sun Jul 20, 2008 4:42 pm

kdlewis1975 wrote:

An aspect often overlooked in pumping oil is that you get water with it. The wt% oil in the mixture can be anywhere between <1% to 90%. As the oil well ages, there becomes a point where it yields more water than oil and eventually gets to the point where you only get "dirty water." Saudi Arabia sort of has it made in that their oil/water mix is 75%-90% oil. The rest of us have to deal with the fact that we're pumping more water than oil. Actually here in in the U.S., I've heard that the proportion of the mix we get out of the ground is 25% oil. Unfortunately, all of that water has to be treated and it's not necessarily a trivial excercise to separate the mixture; the pumping process tends to emulsify it.

Let me tell you how you seperate water and oil.

You have a tank which is split in two sections by a wall which reaches from the very bottom to half way to the top of the tank. You pour in the mixture at a steady rate (pre-calculated rate determined by the size of the tank) and as the water rises the oil which resides on top of the water comes out over the top of the wall into the second part of the tank. This oil is still a slightly more dense mix of oil and water, so you put that into the next tank which seperates the oil from the water. Obviously you also pull the water from below the walls in the tanks and put this into a third seperator tank.

Cascade that system by 10 and you've got near-as-makes-no-difference oil and water seperated.

That's what I been told at university by a professor who worked with the danish oil companies who do some seperation at the oil derricks in the sea before they send it ashore.

You will also get natural gas from the oil in the ground. Water, oil and natural gas is all seperated in the seperator tanks. All you need is pumps and a control system to pump water, gas and oil from the two-section tanks. Gas is obviously on top all the time and is extracted by a top-mounted valve.

Threeweight · **Joined:** Mon May 14, 2007 5:57 pm **Posts:** 679

fastRob wrote:

The Empire is crumbling, we have turned into a country controlled by Hustlers, Pimps and Whores.

Would that make the current inhabitant of the White House our Nero?

I grew up in South Carolina listening to my grand dad say the same kinds of things, but he was referring to desegregation. If you don't like the direction the country is going, roll up your sleeves and do something about it. It's a democracy, round up a bunch of folks who agree with you and take over. If you can't find enough who agree with you, recognize that the people who don't share your opinion are normal folks with families and 9 to 5 jobs to, not Sodomites hell bent on the destruction of mankind.

The problem with America today isn't that the nation is going down hill, its that the people have allowed themselves to be turned into warring factions who see anyone who isn't like them as the enemy. The nation's citizenry may be going down hill, but the nation is still doing ok.

STATELINE · **Posted:** Sun Jul 20, 2008 9:18 pm

http://www.pickensplan.com/

I've had enough....

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