EGR question?

MTB_TDI · **Posted:** Wed Jun 11, 2008 11:09 pm

Let's say I put a block of plate to the EGR. What CELs would come up? P0400 through P0409 appear to be the magic numbers right? Would the block off plate trigger anything related to the MAF?

Let's say I can flash my ECM so that the CELs don't show up. Would it preferable to shut off the EGR with a blocking plate or unplug the MAF?

blake1827 · **Posted:** Thu Jun 12, 2008 1:55 am

From what I've read at least w/ a Powerstroke blocking off the EGR was no cake walk. http://www.dieselpowermag.com/tech/0804dp_60_powerstroke_egr_block_off_kit/index.html

Quote:

The installation of the EGR delete kit isn't for the novice mechanic, but if you take your time and have pretty good mechanical knowledge, it is completely doable. This kit takes a professional between six to eight hours to install, so be prepared to spend some time on this project. Unfortunately, this modification is not for street-legal use on emissions-controlled vehicles.

Joe Romas · **Posted:** Thu Jun 12, 2008 11:21 am

See this thread on my FCV failing and the 2 replies from MACkJ
http://www.lostjeeps.com/forum/phpBB3/vie ... hp?t=32971
According to MACKJ taking out the butterfly in the FCV and putting a blocking plate in the EGR does not cause a cel :shock:

dgeist · **Posted:** Thu Jun 12, 2008 11:26 am

MTB_TDI wrote:

Let's say I put a block of plate to the EGR. What CELs would come up? P0400 through P0409 appear to be the magic numbers right? Would the block off plate trigger anything related to the MAF?

Let's say I can flash my ECM so that the CELs don't show up. Would it preferable to shut off the EGR with a blocking plate or unplug the MAF?

Not that I I've tried the blocking plate method, but based on my knowledge of the CRD's EGR, it's rather tricky and really difficult to un-do el-rapido. Have you considered the SEGR circuit that simply closes it electrically? It's easy to bypass should you need to do* so.

Dan

MTB_TDI · **Posted:** Thu Jun 12, 2008 11:50 am

I have a kit to do the SEGR, I just don't want to splice the wiring. I am trying to set one up via flash tuning with KermaTDI. I was wondering which option was the best, blocking it off (not really accessible) or just unplugging the MAF?

Turbo Tim · **Posted:** Thu Jun 12, 2008 1:54 pm

You could always unplug the EGR and plug in a 10 Ohm, 25 Watt resistor in the EGR connector and that will do the same thing as blocking it off. The computer “See’s” the same electrical connection so that in itself will not throw a code.
Now you have to deal with the computer programming that expects to “See” a drop in MAF signal when it tells the EGR to operate. No MAF decrease, you get a CEL code, possible 2 or 3.

I don’t understand why you would want to go to all the trouble to block off the EGR when unplugging it does the same thing only quicker and easier?

onthehunt · **Posted:** Thu Jun 12, 2008 4:22 pm

Mackj is in Australia.

MTB_TDI · **Posted:** Thu Jun 12, 2008 5:51 pm

I wouldn't just block it off. It would mean removal of all that associated junk. hypothetically of course. I am going to look at just unplugging the maf first, it is much easier than getting underneath and unplugging the EGR solenoid. That dang connector will not come loose! I tried and tried, but it is dang tight. The maf is easy and if it does the same thing, then why not go through the path of least resistance.

Uffe · **Posted:** Fri Jun 13, 2008 7:45 am

That MAF drop thing is odd, because on my Skoda I have blocked vacuum to the EGR valve, and while I still have a MAF I get no warning lights of any sort. I heard the rumour as well that if the MAF doesn't react as well, the CEL comes on even though there is a thing which acts like an EGR valve...

MACKJ · **Posted:** Sat Jun 14, 2008 5:28 am

MTB_TDI wrote:

I wouldn't just block it off. It would mean removal of all that associated junk. hypothetically of course. I am going to look at just unplugging the maf first, it is much easier than getting underneath and unplugging the EGR solenoid. That dang connector will not come loose! I tried and tried, but it is dang tight. The maf is easy and if it does the same thing, then why not go through the path of least resistance.

The reason I did my version of the ORM was, like you, I didn't want to cut into any wiring...and it only cost about two hours of my time plus some 10 thou sheet metal I had in the garage. All of the miscellaneous plumbing remains in place and it is a totally stealth mod.
If you choose to try it, just cut a disc of the sheet metal approx 1" diameter with some tin snips. I left a little tab on one side to make it easy to hold with some long nose pliers. The pipe you need to block off is the one that comes around the back of the engine from the exhaust. This is the top pipe you can see when you look down past the fuel filter. Loosen the two bolts holding the pipe flange to engine block and carefully slip in the shim, tighten the two bolts again. You may find it easier to get to if you remove the fuel filter assembly. I then removed the FCV and carefully removed the two screws that hold the butterfly in place. Slip out the plate and reinstall the FCV.

Doctor B · **Posted:** Sat Jun 14, 2008 1:20 pm

So, if you manually block the EGR with a disc of sheet metal the MAF and
other sensors will not come up with a CEL when the expected changes in flow
and such do not occur? I read somewhere in one of these posts
that it would. Please clarify.

Joe Romas · **Posted:** Sat Jun 14, 2008 6:54 pm

Doctor B wrote:

So, if you manually block the EGR with a disc of sheet metal the MAF and
other sensors will not come up with a CEL when the expected changes in flow
and such do not occur? I read somewhere in one of these posts
that it would. Please clarify.

Apparently as long as both the FCV and EGR valves are in there moving and operating their sensors the ECM is fat dumb and happy :wink:

That was the common thinking on tdi's also and on at least my son's 99.5 jetta tdi just blocking the egr gas as mackj has done is all that needed on at least his tdi :?:

MACKJ · **Posted:** Sat Jun 14, 2008 10:29 pm

Joe Romas wrote:

Doctor B wrote:

So, if you manually block the EGR with a disc of sheet metal the MAF and
other sensors will not come up with a CEL when the expected changes in flow
and such do not occur? I read somewhere in one of these posts
that it would. Please clarify.

Apparently as long as both the FCV and EGR valves are in there moving and operating their sensors the ECM is fat dumb and happy :wink:

That was the common thinking on tdi's also and on at least my son's 99.5 jetta tdi just blocking the egr gas as mackj has done is all that needed on at least his tdi :?:

As Joe has said I bet the ECM is not smart enough to know what proportion of EGR and fresh air it is getting, it is only looking for a total flow and pressure. However having said that the MAP sensor also picks up temperature so the ECM could be looking for delta T, but IMHO I don't think the sensor is that sensitive thus we don't see any CEL. All I know is that it works and will probably work for you guys as Australia pretty much follows California emission standards thus I don't think our programming is different to yours.

Turbo Tim · **Posted:** Sun Jun 15, 2008 12:47 am

I’m confused. If you block off the EGR and take the plate off of the AFC valve, you say that the computer is happy since it thinks everything is connected and working?

How is that different from a plugged up EGR valve with soot?
The computer is expecting a change in the MAF flow when it fires the EGR valve.
How does it know it is not plugged up with soot instead of a block-off plate?

If you plumbed the EGR to the outside air, that won’t work as with the backpressure on the turbo exhaust is much greater than the intake manifold pressure. When the EGR opens it would vent boost out instead of sucking air in.

Have you done this to a CRD and got no CEL?

MACKJ · **Posted:** Sun Jun 15, 2008 5:39 am

Turbo Tim wrote:

I’m confused. If you block off the EGR and take the plate off of the AFC valve, you say that the computer is happy since it thinks everything is connected and working?

How is that different from a plugged up EGR valve with soot?
The computer is expecting a change in the MAF flow when it fires the EGR valve.
How does it know it is not plugged up with soot instead of a block-off plate?

If you plumbed the EGR to the outside air, that won’t work as with the backpressure on the turbo exhaust is much greater than the intake manifold pressure. When the EGR opens it would vent boost out instead of sucking air in.

Have you done this to a CRD and got no CEL?

Tim, no I wouldn't try that. The difference I see between a blocked up EGR and what I have done is that I don't have a butterfly plate restricting any air flow.
The only way for you guys to stop second guessing what is actually happening is for someone in the States to try what I have done. I am no expert but what I have done works for me and, together with the Provent, the MAP sensor stays clean...just like the result you get with the SEGR.

DOC4444 · **Posted:** Sun Jun 15, 2008 11:19 am

Mack,

Have you had occasion to bring your rig in to a dealer for waranty work since your mods? If so, did they notice anything? (It will be a bit of work to put it back to stock and I have a 7 yr/100K ESP that I don't want to jeopordize.) The SEGR makes it easy with the bypass plug, but then the box is still there along with all the wire taps.

Thanks,

DOC

Turbo Tim · **Posted:** Sun Jun 15, 2008 12:32 pm

MACKJ,
I guess another thing to remember is that you are down (under) in OZ, and I am in the USA. I'll bet that we have two different EGR systems.
That being said would explain a lot of why there are so many different results..

MACKJ · **Posted:** Sun Jun 15, 2008 7:55 pm

DOC4444,
I have had the vehicle in for at least one major service and some warranty work on another occasion since the mod and they have not noticed anything. The only thing anyone would notice, if they were looking for it, is the slightly rougher shutdown.

Tim,
I beg to differ...as I mentioned in my earlier post we pretty much follow California's lead on emissions control so I am guessing our EGR systems are identical. Physically they are plumbed up the same and, as I said, someone needs to try it to prove me right or wrong.

Sir Sam · **Posted:** Sun Jun 15, 2008 8:03 pm

MACKJ wrote:

DOC4444,
I have had the vehicle in for at least one major service and some warranty work on another occasion since the mod and they have not noticed anything. The only thing anyone would notice, if they were looking for it, is the slightly rougher shutdown.

Tim,
I beg to differ...as I mentioned in my earlier post we pretty much follow California's lead on emissions control so I am guessing our EGR systems are identical. Physically they are plumbed up the same and, as I said, someone needs to try it to prove me right or wrong.

Your EGR setup IS NOT the same as the US.

MACKJ · **Posted:** Sun Jun 15, 2008 8:13 pm

Sir Sam wrote:

MACKJ wrote:

DOC4444,
I have had the vehicle in for at least one major service and some warranty work on another occasion since the mod and they have not noticed anything. The only thing anyone would notice, if they were looking for it, is the slightly rougher shutdown.

Tim,
I beg to differ...as I mentioned in my earlier post we pretty much follow California's lead on emissions control so I am guessing our EGR systems are identical. Physically they are plumbed up the same and, as I said, someone needs to try it to prove me right or wrong.

Your EGR setup IS NOT the same as the US.

OK what is the difference?

EGR question?

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