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Windows steaming up
http://www.lostjeeps.com/forum/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=3495		 Page 1 of 1
Author:  KJ79 [ Thu Nov 17, 2005 4:23 am ]
Post subject:  Windows steaming up
My CRD has a problem I never experienced on my 3.7 KJ. This is a long winded rambling report - brace yourself with patience!
Last week we had a lot of heavy, rainy type of weather. I drove to town and back etc. around 45 minutes, got back on the driveway at home, prior to turning the engine off, I put it in Park, pulled up the Emerg.brake, turned the lights of and suddenly the windshield and side windows steamed up totally. I waited for about 3 minutes and no change , turned the defrost on full speed and eventually cleared the windshield.
I noticed the next day, whilst parked behind a very smoky Chevy Diesel Pickup that the smell from the diesel was overwhelming when I opened the window, but the ventilation system did not pick it up at all (looks like I don't get any fresh air - looks like it is always on recirculation).
With 2 passengers driving in the rain the windows steam up totally and even with full defrost and highest speed on the fan I cannot get the stuff to clear. Also the wife went some place had the CRD parked in the sun for about 2 hours, started the engine and immediately all the windows steamed up and would not clear even after some time. She had to squeegie the glass on the inside to see out.
Outside temperature is around 40-50F.

I also turned on full AC with fan on highest speed thru dash vents only, air feels like ambient (is my compressor running??).

Took it to the dealer, explained everything as above. Got a phonecall that everything is functioning as it should. There is no problem. This resembles the response I used to get at the VW dealership when my TDI lemon failed!
The dealer had a very technical explanation why diesels due to their inherent efficiency cool down too quickly at idle and this causes the special a/c system to malfunction under given circumstances, blah,blah,blah.......

Are my fellow CRD users all having this 'normal' scenario?
Author:  Rucky [ Thu Nov 17, 2005 8:25 am ]
Post subject: 
Sorry never had this problem myself (12 months ownership and 25k miles).

Sometimes the front window will fogg up a bit but i find the fan clears the screen very quickly. The heater is also a fast worker.
Author:  grywlfbg [ Fri Nov 18, 2005 10:09 am ]
Post subject:  Fogging windows
Same here. i've had the windows fog a bit a couple times but if I turn on the defroster it disappears in a few seconds. - A/C seems to work great.
Author:  vtdog [ Fri Nov 18, 2005 12:40 pm ]
Post subject: 
If you had your wife instead of your girlfriend in the car, steaming would not be an issue
Author:  CTKJ [ Fri Nov 18, 2005 8:48 pm ]
Post subject: 
It sounds like water got into the ventilation. This should not be an issue, your vehicle is still under bumper to bumper. The only other cause I can think of is a heater core problem. But like I said "let the dealer figure it out" a different dealer!!.
Author:  KJ79 [ Fri Nov 18, 2005 11:54 pm ]
Post subject: 
Thanks for the suggestions. I left the KJ another day at the dealer after I once more in plain language explained what was happening etc.
At least they seemed to be genuinely listening and 'eager' to sort this out.
Anyhow they said they did not change anything and everything does seem to work. I have a feeling that the drain of the intake fresh air plenum, by the bottom of the windshield got plugged, they checked this (on my recommendation I might add) and they say it was clear. Maybe they used a rod to check and push out whatever was clogging it. Sofar so good and the issue that the AC was not working, was perhaps my own stupidity :oops: . I checked this when it was about 45 degrees outside and inside the vehicle - I was told the AC cools the air down to 54 degrees - that explains why I thought it was perhaps a bit warm :roll: !
At least nothing seriously wrong, all seems to be good now, yesterday it was a warmer day and yes the AC works :) .
By the way I got to drive a 2002 Neon courtesy car for about 150 miles. I must say that the Neons are 300% improved over the older ones, I mean I checked out some 95 Neon for my daughter in '99, I than thought after taking around the block that it was the worst piece of automotive technology Chrysler ever put together ! The 2002 Neon with 77k on the clock was actually rattlefree and solid, the brakes and steering were all as tight as it would be. I would not want one but I concluded that the marriage between Daimler and Chrysler must have done a lot in the quality department.
Author:  Derek Mc [ Sun Nov 20, 2005 6:26 am ]
Post subject: 
I too get the steaming up of the windows in Scotland here when i run with A/C and its mild and rainy. I suspect the humidity in the vents is forced in by the outside air once the fan cuts off when it hits the cold air inside the Jeep (or my BMW and Ford too actually) it instantly mists up.

I noticed it on a trip to Fla when it was the ice cold A/C causing mist on the outside of the screen which the wipers had to clear due to the humidity there :wink:
Author:  LibertyCRD [ Sun Nov 20, 2005 6:51 pm ]
Post subject: 
My CRD's windows fog a lot easier than any vehicle I've ever owned. This is my first turbo diesel, so I assume the HVAC system on these diesels are a little different than on a gas engine and I figure that has something to do with why it fogs up so much easier and at times that seem odd. But who knows?? I just try to clean my windows inside with Windex at least once per week and that seems to help some.
Author:  KJ79 [ Tue Nov 22, 2005 12:53 am ]
Post subject: 
Well, we have had lots of damp and foggy weather, but no more extended periods of rain. However......
I checked with the wife and today it started fogging up after she drove about a minute or two. The inside of the window had to be cleared with the squeegee, defrost was just making matters worse. It just gets worse as you go on, very much like when you have a cracked heater core. In fact all windows including the rear windshield steamed up, she is getting nervous about driving this vehicle under these conditions.
I don't understand why this is uncharted territory for these technicians, after all A/C and defrost systems have been around for a long time.
I don't buy the:" that's normal with a diesel". I never had these problems with my VW TDI - neither had my 2002 KJ.
It really seems like there is standing water in the system, wish I could determine the cause.
Author:  Torque Monster [ Thu Nov 24, 2005 12:08 pm ]
Post subject: 
I have had this problem with my CRD also. I don't think it's a water problem, just the compressor is not coming on when it should. The compressor should operate down to freezing (30F/-1C). Here is a link to a thread I started at JeepForum.com: http://www.jeepforum.com/forum/showthread.php?t=212437

Chris
Author:  KJ79 [ Fri Nov 25, 2005 12:13 am ]
Post subject:  fog
Torquemonster,
I checked your experience out and the theory of the haphazard running of the compressor sounds plausable. Since I lost part of my hearing, I have not been able to hear things kicking in or shutting off.
I will be making a 500 mile trip (0-5000ft mountain hwy) this weekend. Expect temperatures will vary from 15 to 45F. It sounds like an good idea to apply at least some good window cleaner treatment before I leave.
Author:  KJ79 [ Tue Nov 29, 2005 3:23 am ]
Post subject:  fog 2
The 500 mile round trip through the mountains turned out to be a long trip, lots of snow and ice - I was in full time 4WD most of the trip. Lots of vehicles in the ditch, abandoned vehicles, semis strapping on the chains etc. altogether 12 hours of intense driving.
Back to my defrost problems. Sure enough the windows would steam up whenever an adjustment was made to the heater controls - I mean the centre selector knob : feet only- feet and face - face - defrost and feet -defrost - recirc . The weird part was that the passenger side was extremely cold to the touch, I mean the front of the glovebox, the horizontal bar and the side panel were extremely cold. Putting the hand in the glovebox was literally like putting your hand in the freezer compartment of the refrigerator and cold wind was wafting all around this area. Outside temperature was probably around 20F. The heater outlet at the feet of the passenger area gave lots of heat but was totally outclassed by the extreme amount of cold air infitration. Even with the heat on full power and the fan at high speed it was impossible to create any comfort condition. The wife and (kid in the back seat) had to wrap themselves using a bed pillow and sleeping bag and blanket to prevent hypothermia. The cold also wafted to the back over the floor I guess. At the driverside it was cold but not freezing cold.
I suspect this cold was outside air somehow entering the cab directly. Perhaps a loose duct or connection or seal between the fresh airbox and the heater system? Or is the compressor just pumping refrigerant madly through the cooling coil? - I believe the cooling coil is located somewhere between the firewall and the glovebox.
Does anybody share this problem?
My feeling is that the outside air enters somehow directly into the cab. So when it is raining the moist rain air flows directly into the cab and makes the windows staem up. Conversely the outside (fresh) air does not get mixed in with the air distribution system - does not get heated or cooled (dehumidified) and therefore defrost does not work because it is in reality always in 'simulated' recirc mode.
Author:  LibertyCRD [ Tue Nov 29, 2005 9:17 am ]
Post subject: 
Well you probably already know this, but I think your KJ has a problem. The coldest it has been here so far this season is about 14 degrees F. And my heater will run you out of the Jeep on the high setting. In fact, the cabin of my KJ gets so hot that even in 14 degree weather I have to turn the thermostat dial back to almost half-way to keep the family from sweating and taking off clothes. So I think you definitely have a problem there.

As far as the fogging goes... I can be driving down the road with the windows up, and the climate controls completely off, and suddenly my windows will just fog like crazy, and it starts low on the windshield near the defrost duct outlets. I've never seen anything like this on any other vehicle (all gas) I've ever owned. I don't have a clue what's going on.

The only thing I do know is that cleaning the inside of the windows thoroughly once a week with Windex helps. On my new Ford Ranger, I learned that some companies put a protective invisible coating on the inside of the windshield during manufacture. This coating will cause fogging of the windows more easily. It took several washings with Windex to finally get it all gone and then my windows didn't hardly fog at all anymore. So I'm washing my windows on the KJ with cleaner inside pretty frequently hoping to have the same luck. The KJ just fogs worse...and at more odd times so it's baffling to me.
Author:  dog_party [ Tue Nov 29, 2005 3:27 pm ]
Post subject: 
Definitely a problem, unless you want to keep margarita mix in the glove box (if there were actually room in that little tiny box). My heater attempts to mimic an open blast-furnace after about 5 minutes of diesel operation. Certainly no problem keeping everyone warm. However, there have been (like LibertyCRD said) a bunch of times we had to turn it DOWN (to about half when it was 20 degrees in Philly). I'd have to say, I've never left it at full red hot setting for more than 5-10 minutnes...ever.

Foggy glass is more of a problem here in VABeach than it was in Lexington, KY, but it comes and goes about the same in the Liberty as it did in my Jetta. Turning on the AC (with the temp knob turned to "hot") clears my fog in about 2 seconds. I think you have a serious problem with your Liberty!!

Sideline: Has anyone else noticed that there are defrogger vents in the roof at the top of the back glass? That's' pretty handy!
Author:  LibertyCRD [ Tue Nov 29, 2005 3:34 pm ]
Post subject: 
dog_party wrote:
Sideline: Has anyone else noticed that there are defrogger vents in the roof at the top of the back glass? That's' pretty handy!


:roll: I thought that's what the defrost system ON the back glass was for? Interesting... I'll have to look for that!
Author:  crdawg [ Tue Nov 29, 2005 6:23 pm ]
Post subject: 
blast furnace effect like others from heater ,had a slight fogging effect when first owned vehicle,used them antifog,glass cleaning wipe from rain-ex.after the first two times i used them,fogging hasn't come back.definitely good heater
Author:  KJ79 [ Thu Dec 08, 2005 2:45 am ]
Post subject:  fog 3 -STEAMED !
Just another update....
Left the CRD for another day at the dealer. In the afternoon I got the phonecall that they had found a plastic lever had come off the linkage somehow or perhaps was originally not properly installed. This would cause the fresh air to be jammed fully open. As the story goes they found this part in the bottom of the airbox and reinstalled it. Sounded promising enough, or so I thought.
By the time I had a change to pick up my Jeep, the service department had left. I got into the vehicle, all windows were CLEAR, started the engine, fan was on full blast and defrost, on hot - result within 30 seconds all my windows were steamed up again, I waited and low and behold the lower portion of the windshield cleared after another minute or two. Side windows still fully steamed up. Changed setting to from defrost to vent at dash, the circular side dash vents aimed at the side windows, cleared eventually enough to see halfway thru.
In disgust I drove off to the ferry parking lot, by the time I got there the engine was warmed up to 'N' - lots of heat pouring out of the vents, still lots of steam on side and rear windows.
While waiting for the ferry I shut the engine off, kept the windows shut tightly (anticipating all windows to fog up) and sure enough my windshield and side windows and the top of the reqr window started to clear.

And yes, the glovebox is still an ice box! Nothing resolved!

Incidentally, the workorder contained strong suggestions that when I receive the DC dealer service rating form - I give them the highest ratings!!!

On the bright side I discussed the situation with the service manager and they put a whole new heating assembly and airbox on order from Michigan. A week from now it might be in and this is expected to solve the issues.l
Author:  KJ79 [ Mon Dec 26, 2005 12:15 am ]
Post subject:  Merry Chrismas and Happy New Year finally >>No more S
I had the CRD in at the dealer again. They had ordered a whole new heaterbox as all else failed.
This solved all problems, I would say the heater is as good if not better than the one in my 2002. We had some particularly warm and humid (read downpours) the last few days. The weather system is locally known as the Pineapple Express as it originates in Hawai and loads itself up with moisture before dumping it in southwestern BC. This weather is the worst conditions for testing your vehicle's HVAC system. Anyway it works superbly - just like most of everybody elses - it even keeps the side/rear windows clear! And yes it can work as a blast furnace as somebody mentioned, no more need for sleeping bags and pillows to be propped up at the passenger side.

Mind you dog_party- I have to switch the Margaritas in the glovebox out for hot chocolate! Haha!

Liberty CRD, Torque Monster and Derek Mc , you might want to get that heaterbox checked out , problem lies with malfunctioning fresh air mixing door - allowing fresh air to enter directly the interior.
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