Doing more research on my EGR issue (probably stuck open) I found this from VTNomad in the general discussion area:



I have not yet seen this discussed as it pertains to the SEGR.

Yes, I know the SEGR will turn off the CEL so if the emissions testers just plug into the computer there will be no problem. But, what about what they see at the tailpipe?

Has anyone with the SEGR failed emissions with this mod?

Could we be destroying our engines with the SEGR because it will "cause the EGR passages in the cylinder head and intake manifold to become blocked with carbon deposits, necessitating extensive engine disassembly for cleaning"? The SEGR is sitting on my desk in front of me but I'd hate to spend all that time & money to usher in an early demise of this already problem-plagued rig. (and my wife's 06)


Comments?

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2005 CRD Limited:
* 245/70/16 Nokian Vatiiva
* Magnaflow
* Kennedy Diesel lift pump
* Custom CCV condensor
* Custom modified thermostat housing w/bleeder valve

2006 CRD Limited (wife's)
* Bone stock

The above statement is true for gasoline engines. A disabled EGR will fail emissions as the NOX will be higher as combustion temps are higher.
A diesel is a completely different animal and runs an excess of air (thus no throttle plate or butterfly valve). Extremely difficult to detect and especially monitor with an engine that goes from 3-99%:1 air fuel ratio.
This was discussed way back when the ORM was discovered and the SEGR was being developed. Do a search and you will see.
On a diesel, an EGR will kill the engine much sooner than without as the recirculated carbon and soot and other crap will score the cylinder walls, gum up the rings, and basically destroy the engine very quickly.

There has been many documented cases of this, again with industrial engines like city and school buses. Google is your friend here.

I'd rather not have an egr on my engine. They are also not going to ruin your engine very quickly. Better for the enviroment(some people care) but worse for your engine. Your call. I'd love to see where VTNomad got the whole increased efficiency theory with an egr. You lose efficiency with an egr. Bypass your egr and you will see a noticable gain in mpg. I did. Egr passages can plug all they want. I'm never using them again. Intake manifold will stay cleaner too. Under warranty I would fix it. Out of warranty...... NO thanks. Of course if you have emission testing your sol.

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2005 sport crd-SOLD No regrets

The SEGR looks like a great product. Lots of people running them. I would would have one but I live in a salt state and I refuse to open my engine harness. Dealers really hate to see hacked engine harnesses also.

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2005 sport crd-SOLD No regrets

Oh great, another clown with absolutley no idea how engines work, giving advice on vehicle maintainance.

#1 The EGR absolutely does NOT increase engine efficency during the power stroke or any other stroke.

#2 The EGR absolutely is used heavily during idling.

#3 There are no "EGR passages" within the head.

#4 How can the EGR ducting possibly become pluged with carbon if the Valve is closed and there is no flow of soot and exaust gasses?

It is unlikely that a modern diesel such as our CRD would fail an emmisions test because of a disabled EGR valve, provided that a high quality fuel is used such as Biodiesel or a cetane improver is added to the fuel. The tests have a pretty liberal range in NOx measurments designed to cathc only the most heavy polluters. NOx is the only contaminent that "may" go up because of a non-functioning EGR, all other gasses will go down including particulates.

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Manure green 2005 CRD sport4x4, GDE Hot tune, Cat Gut, OE skids, Draw tight hitch, Duramax lift pump, 160K on multiple varieties of fuel, XM radio, Escort live with Redline, fog light mod, GPS, Icom IC7000 all band radio call sign KC9QPF, Grabber AT2s on Soft 8s, FIA grill blanket.

Diesel exhaust contains carbon which is abrasive.
I have read several reports that EGR disabled CRDs using Biodiesel blends will pass emissions with flying colors and onre guy had to come back because the test station though their equipment was malfunctioning due to the low readings.
Gassers use the EGR as a way to control detonation in addition to the stated reason to control NOX. Block off the EGR on some gassers with higher compression ratios or poorly desoigned combustion chambers with hot spots and you will hear a lot of pinging and some times have the fun of replacing pistons, been there done that on customer cars years ago.
Diesels detonate every power stroke and are designed to handle it, cross that one off your worry list.

The whole THEORY behind NOX was composed by so called Scientists who were on a "C.A.R.B. CASH COW TREK" with our gullible elected officials. Under "IDEAL CONDITIONS" NOX can assist in producing ground level Ozone which can cause smog at ground level, in a Valley, with no wind blowing, high enough ambient temperature (has to be REAL HOT), the sun shining with no clouds, and the right number of pot heads smoking pot on the street who are slowly exhaling with out blowing their pot smoke up into the air.
Have one mussel car with a roots blower bolted on top of a big block V8 accelerate hard at a traffic light and poof, the NOX is sucked into the engine supplements the NOX injection and the ground level NOX concentration is all screwed up and no Ozone is produced today and no smog either, boo hoo

If you catch the drift, conditions must be ideal for NOX to be a problem, modern emissions systems are so much better and improved that the news casters tell you that mowing your lawn is the same as driving 60 miles in your car when there is a smog alert.

If wacko environmentalists (not the conservationists like us) totally had their way, the B2 stealth bombers would be bombing the peanut fields to cut down on peanut allergy attacks:!:

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2006 Pearl Green CRD
Magnaflow 2 1/2" Cat Back
KJ Extra Leg Room Brackets, Carter Lift Pump, V6 Airbox, ORM
Fuel cooler, Oil Separator, Progard 7
Gauges EGT Boost Trans Temp Oil Pres, Michelin LXT AT2 245 70 R16
7,000# Draw Tight hitch, PML EX Deep Trans Pan
Centrifuge, SunCoast, Transgo, RAM TCM, InMotion Stage 2
Wife's 99 TDI VW Beetle

Amen!!!

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Manure green 2005 CRD sport4x4, GDE Hot tune, Cat Gut, OE skids, Draw tight hitch, Duramax lift pump, 160K on multiple varieties of fuel, XM radio, Escort live with Redline, fog light mod, GPS, Icom IC7000 all band radio call sign KC9QPF, Grabber AT2s on Soft 8s, FIA grill blanket.

Uh-oh... there goes my state's primary ag. export

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2005 Silver CRD Limited
245/75R16 GoodYear Duratracs
Fumoto drain | ProVent CCV Filter
Stanadyne FM100 filter | Cummins fuel pump
GDE Eco | SEGR | BoulderBars | FrankenLift | Frankenskids

Just another thing to consider: These so called “Mechanics” at the stealership tend to forget that the exhaust going to the EGR valve must first pass through a water-cooled heat exchanger (small radiator for the exhaust) to cool it down first before it gets put into the intake manifold, when the EGR opens.
This small water-cooled pass-through device will also become plugged up with crap, soot, and other exhaust nasties that will impede the flow. If this is plugged up, your brand new EGR and FCV valve is still useless and will throw the SAME codes.

This is yet another reason to install the SEGR as it removes this heat from the marginal CRD’s cooling system. (This is achieved by the EGR staying closed so no hot exhaust flows into this cooler). Hope this sheds some more light on the subject.

OK....time for my paranoia to fade once again....and once again for a few lessons..
Thanks!
- Chris

_________________
2005 CRD Limited:
* 245/70/16 Nokian Vatiiva
* Magnaflow
* Kennedy Diesel lift pump
* Custom CCV condensor
* Custom modified thermostat housing w/bleeder valve

2006 CRD Limited (wife's)
* Bone stock

Off topic.... Is there an emissions test for diesels? I lived in Cali with the CRD for 3 years and they never did one.

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2005 Liberty Limited CRD
SPdiesel module (Thanks Endurance)
SEGR
Custom CCV oil separator
Racor 245

2006 BMW 330i

If you stick to the diesel side of the forum for maintenance questions you will usually get good advice although occasionally some Gas drivers with diesel envy make some nonsense posts over here.

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Manure green 2005 CRD sport4x4, GDE Hot tune, Cat Gut, OE skids, Draw tight hitch, Duramax lift pump, 160K on multiple varieties of fuel, XM radio, Escort live with Redline, fog light mod, GPS, Icom IC7000 all band radio call sign KC9QPF, Grabber AT2s on Soft 8s, FIA grill blanket.

LOL....yep, I'm beginning to wonder if that might be the case. (Patooie)

_________________
2005 CRD Limited:
* 245/70/16 Nokian Vatiiva
* Magnaflow
* Kennedy Diesel lift pump
* Custom CCV condensor
* Custom modified thermostat housing w/bleeder valve

2006 CRD Limited (wife's)
* Bone stock

Yes. Here in Washington I was blown away when I first got the notice they wanted to check my F350 dually diesel 4X4. I thought it was a typo. Nonetheless, with B100 in the tank they were tapping on the equipment wondering why it was reading so low.
However, I imagine the rules are tighter for the CRD and I'm a bit worried about the NOX readings with no EGR.

_________________
2005 CRD Limited:
* 245/70/16 Nokian Vatiiva
* Magnaflow
* Kennedy Diesel lift pump
* Custom CCV condensor
* Custom modified thermostat housing w/bleeder valve

2006 CRD Limited (wife's)
* Bone stock

Yes. Several states now do testing on diesels to a greater or lesser degree. Also the EPA mandates testing a the county level in many metro areas of the country regardless of weather that state does it or not. I recently moved from Chattanooga TN where it was mandated for the county even though it is not a large metro area. Because the city sits in a valley with a LOT of interstate traffic on I75 and I24 the smog levels are high. The testing is a joke because the vast majority of pollution comes from vehicles which are not even registered in that county. PS I passed the inspection with flying colors with a disabled EGR and biodiesel in the tank.

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Manure green 2005 CRD sport4x4, GDE Hot tune, Cat Gut, OE skids, Draw tight hitch, Duramax lift pump, 160K on multiple varieties of fuel, XM radio, Escort live with Redline, fog light mod, GPS, Icom IC7000 all band radio call sign KC9QPF, Grabber AT2s on Soft 8s, FIA grill blanket.

I did not answer the poll because proof requires more facts than I think any of us have. Arriving at the correct answer requires weighing different operating conditions in the CRD engine relative to the experiment. Although EGR raises the IAT it reduces combustion temperature (seems counter intuitive, doesn’t it, but less oxygen reduces the temp?). My understanding is that when the CRD engine is wide open there is no EGR and the fuel system correctly adjusts injection timing to not injure the engine, or the lack of excess oxygen relative to fuel at wide open lowers combustion temp. However, at lower throttle setting where EGR is maximum, combustion temperature will be lower. With no EGR, is this higher combustion temp a problem for the aluminum head or other components over time? I don’t know! I have to believe that the system is programmed to compensate for EGR failure and adjust so there is no damage the engine. Is the system that might act to protect the engine defeated by modification(s)? I don’t know. Is the potential damage to the engine that might be caused by defeating EGR offset by the obvious benefits of no EGR? I don’t know.

I can tell you that when my EGR thingy went south while I was wheeling in TN, I had to drive home with the heat on to keep the temp needle out of the red. If I drove under 55 mph there were no heat issues. Since I would have been a road hazard driving under 55 mph on I75, I elected to do the limit (70 mph) but it was not pleasant driving 13.5 hrs on a summer day with the heat on.

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2006 CRD http://www.UtahPowderCoatings.com/ http://www.gorecon.com/ I'm kind of a big deal.
RL rear bumper, ARB front bumper, Mile Marker winch, Power Tank, Skids by Mopar & Skid Row, RL Super Skink Sliders, 235/85R16 MTR, Air Flow Snorkel, DTT, 4.10 gears, Frankenlift II, Katskin leather, JL Audio stereo, Rosen video.

...used in Third World applications by users besides Chrysler where no EGR is used. Chrysler has chosen to out fit this engine for the applications that the market demands, which is mostly Europe. For two years they produced a USA/Canada version that meets the non CARB emissions. For our friends outside of these reagions, they get the European version because it exceeds any requirements and it costs too much to develop a non emissions compliant version.

If you want to blow off this logic, and test your theory (unproven assumption), install an EGT gauge in the exhaust manifold and a boost gauge and run the following tests.

1) With the EGR fully operational, idle the engine for five minutes and record the EGT, barometer, humidity, ambient temperature, and noise level with dB meter.
2) With the EGR fully operational, drive up a steep grade and record the EGT and boost at a point before the grade starts to level off also record barometer, humidity, ambient temperature and noise level with dB meter.
3) With the EGR fully operational, on a long level road accelerate to 65MPH and slow down to 62 MPH, set the cruse control and record barometer, humidity, ambient temperature and noise level with dB meter.
Now do the ORM and repeat the tests above. Since tests 1 & 2 are run under conditions when the EGR is shut off, the information is nice to know but irrelevant.
Now compare the EGT readings from the EGR fully operational and the ORM and see which is higher. With that you will know which configuration is more stressful on the cylinder head and pistons, but keep in mind, if it is less than the EGT in test 1, the argument is as irrelevant as which Howitzer round is the most effective in killing a Cock Roach with a direct hit.

As far as emissions go, L.O.S.T. members have passed emissions tests for NOX using Biodiesel blends with the EGR disabled. Also the improved cetain will help lower any stress on cylinder heads and pistons more than having the EGR operational.

_________________
2006 Pearl Green CRD
Magnaflow 2 1/2" Cat Back
KJ Extra Leg Room Brackets, Carter Lift Pump, V6 Airbox, ORM
Fuel cooler, Oil Separator, Progard 7
Gauges EGT Boost Trans Temp Oil Pres, Michelin LXT AT2 245 70 R16
7,000# Draw Tight hitch, PML EX Deep Trans Pan
Centrifuge, SunCoast, Transgo, RAM TCM, InMotion Stage 2
Wife's 99 TDI VW Beetle

From the feeble ball joints on the front to the clunky brakes on the rear Jeep seems to have taken less than consummate care to protect many of the parts in-between. One could just adopt the philosophy that no matter what well intentioned modification owners make they cannot make matters worse.

Of course one could always leave the EGR on and fully operational and drive 500 miles and record the gas mileage. Then you could do the SEGR and do the same test and see that the mileage is much better. That PROVES that the engine is running more efficient.
Now you could say that the engine is running on less fuel to do the same job, or, that it is polluting much more and thus the better performance and economy.
I would have to believe that if said engine is doing more work and using less fuel, it would have to be polluting less. Just the fact alone that burning 1 tank instead of 2 tanks of fuel is putting less into the air. NOX and all.