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Solutions for fuel starvation issues (CRD not stuck anymore)
http://www.lostjeeps.com/forum/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=35279		 Page 1 of 1
Author:  geordi [ Thu Aug 21, 2008 1:49 pm ]
Post subject:  Solutions for fuel starvation issues (CRD not stuck anymore)
Ok, here's the scenario:

Towing about 4000 lbs of trailer from New Hampshire to Florida, I'm in New Jersey right now, trying to get to DC today. I hope.

The CRD currently has 51k miles on it, and has tasted B100 only a few times. The current tank is about 75% regular diesel, 25% filtered waste veggie oil. Driving along at 65mph, the car suddenly lost power like it went into limp mode, then died completely. This was on Long Island. I re-primed the fuel head, it only took about 3 presses on the button for fuel to squirt from the bleed screw. So not much air there.

Ran for about 5 minutes or so and died again just as I was starting back onto the road. I thought it might be the filter, since I have never changed it since I bought the car. Assume the filter is 50k miles old. Swapped the fuel lines onto a temp "paper element" purolator filter and it ran fine for about 2.5 hours to the south end of the NJ turnpike.

Now, I tried using the priming button again, and no results - no fuel at all coming from the tank and no tension in the button. I tried pushing fuel BACK through the inlet with a priming bulb, and no results there either. Thoughts?

I'm currently going to try some Diesel 911 and Cetane Boost (Silver bottle PS) back through the fuel return, and hope that clears whatever this is. Is there ANY way to get to the fuel head from inside the car? A porthole somewhere, even if it needs to be cut?

LMK what you think. Right now, I'm literally and mentally stuck.

--Jim
Author:  nescosmo [ Thu Aug 21, 2008 2:00 pm ]
Post subject: 
Bad fuel blow the lines backward and change your filter or head. also clean your map sensor.


wish you well.
Author:  BlackLibertyCRD [ Thu Aug 21, 2008 2:01 pm ]
Post subject: 
yeah, same here, maybe drain the fuel tank too.
Author:  ATXKJ [ Thu Aug 21, 2008 2:25 pm ]
Post subject: 
pull a sample of the fuel for analysis & evidence.
Author:  gmctd [ Thu Aug 21, 2008 4:03 pm ]
Post subject: 
Remove the fuel cap, blow back thru the fuel inlet line, noting instantaneous resistance to flow, then resultant flow - there's no sock filter in-tank, but the fuel module has a sand\sediment filter, could be plugged
Author:  geordi [ Thu Aug 21, 2008 6:06 pm ]
Post subject: 
gmctd wrote:
Remove the fuel cap, blow back thru the fuel inlet line, noting instantaneous resistance to flow, then resultant flow - there's no sock filter in-tank, but the fuel module has a sand\sediment filter, could be plugged


Thanks for the info!
Almost exactly what I was thinking - That there was a pre-filter of some sort in the tank, and that had collected a layer of goop from all the non-biodiesel miles.

I didn't open the fuel cap at the time, but I did try pushing fuel back through the to-the-engine line, and had extreme resistance. Is there any kind of an anti-backflow valve on that line?

The car argued a bit after the diesel-911 and PS treatments, it now has TWO full bottles of PS Silver and almost a full jug (96 ounces) of Diesel-911 down the hatch. Followed that with about 1/4+ tank of regular diesel from the service station (really high volume) and was able to make it all the way to DC without any further complaints from the powerplant. I kept it in 3rd gear the whole time however, so the mileage wasn't really stellar. But it at least was moving.

More later.
--Jim
Author:  longview [ Thu Aug 21, 2008 6:17 pm ]
Post subject: 
Also, if your lines are dry, good luck re-priming them with just the filter head primer button.
I found it to be impossible, as did others as I found out on this list.
I had to get the fuel pump in and prime the system with the pump.
I tried priming with the button for something like two hours.

Good luck.
I feel for ya.
Author:  warp2diesel [ Thu Aug 21, 2008 6:25 pm ]
Post subject:  I like priming with my lift pump
I just open the air bleed, attach a hose, put the other end in a jar, turn on the key and let the lift pump pump out the bubbles. As far as I am concerned, not having a lift pump on a CRD is like sky diving with out a parachute.
Author:  geordi [ Thu Aug 21, 2008 6:39 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: I like priming with my lift pump
warp2diesel wrote:
I just open the air bleed, attach a hose, put the other end in a jar, turn on the key and let the lift pump pump out the bubbles. As far as I am concerned, not having a lift pump on a CRD is like sky diving with out a parachute.



...Yea, I've come to that conclusion. As well as the conclusion that if I need to drop the tank for anything, it is NOT getting re-installed without a lift pump going in FIRST.

Any sources that might have one in stock, just-in-case? I'm still deciding if I should just do it here in DC before I try going any further. I will be researching that job tonight. Luckily, I have all my tools with me (partly why the trailer is heavy) so I *could* do it, but I don't think I would be happy doing it now. But I would be less happy getting stuck again, especially in the nothingness that is I-95 in the carolinas.
Author:  gmctd [ Thu Aug 21, 2008 8:39 pm ]
Post subject: 
The primer pump will function only if it has two one-way valves, both in direction of flow, towards engine - impossible to blow back thru primer unless malfunctioning valve(s) - so, no you cannot blow back from the CP3 side, only into the inlet fuel line from the tank - or into the inlet fitting on the fuel manager head - if the tank prefilter is plugged, a lift pump would have starved, also, external or in-tank.
Author:  geordi [ Thu Aug 21, 2008 10:18 pm ]
Post subject: 
An internal pre-filter is probably the dumbest design idea I've ever heard of. If I was designing the system, the fuel pickup would be a large-mouth tube leading out to the exterior of the tank, on the side. THEN put an actual pre-filter before the lift pump if so desired. The advantage here? You don't need to drop the tank to change a filter, something which WOULD be part of the normal life of a vehicle.

If it has a filter, at some point that filter is going to need to be worked on. Obviously I'm working on that "some point" right now. Of course it happens while I'm 1000 miles from home. :roll:
Author:  onthehunt [ Thu Aug 21, 2008 10:24 pm ]
Post subject: 
Running a veggie waste oil blend while towing 1000 miles from home isn't on the bright idea list either.
Author:  geordi [ Thu Aug 21, 2008 10:40 pm ]
Post subject: 
Ok, I might have deserved that. But at the same time, I am confident that it wasn't specifically the fuel that caused this. I did some tests to compare the viscosity changes of the fuel at a low blend (and really, 25% oil is a VERY low blend) and with NurseComo burning a 75% motor oil mix, I had decent prior art to show that it isn't the engine that is the weak spot.

This is a starvation issue, but I had exactly the same starvation issues with my VW Jetta TDI after running some bio for a while. It wasn't the bio that caused the problems, it was a stupid anti-slosh valve blocking the fuel sender, and the goop from the regular diesel had plugged the hole. I suspect this will be a similar situation, I just have to see if I really need to get into it right now.
Author:  UFO [ Thu Aug 21, 2008 11:42 pm ]
Post subject: 
It wouldn't be the first time I've heard of plugging issues involved with a mix of diesel and WVO. Some speculate the WVO causes wax to drop out of the diesel.
Author:  warp2diesel [ Fri Aug 22, 2008 9:54 am ]
Post subject:  I thought I heard rumbling in Georgia when I was there
It was George Washington Carver rolling over in his grave when he found out that someone was running WVO instead of his invention BIODIESEL.

WVO is for old 5cyl Mercedes diesels not second generation common rail diesel engines like our CRDs.
Author:  gmctd [ Fri Aug 22, 2008 10:45 am ]
Post subject: 
Same goes for WMO.............
Author:  KeighJeigh [ Fri Aug 22, 2008 10:44 pm ]
Post subject:  Check inside your banjo bolts!
I am in the process of replacing my EGR right this moment (came in to check the EGR advice again and noticed your distress call) and when I popped off the banjo bolts from the fuel manager to get at it, I notice they were nearly clogged with all sorts of crapp. I'm surprised I didn't notice it in handling....although I suspect my lift pump might have been pushing enough through that it was able to function.

- Chris
Author:  geordi [ Sat Aug 23, 2008 12:27 am ]
Post subject: 
Good to know!

I have a Stanadyne filter in the trailer waiting to install, and I do have the lift pump for that floating around somewhere. I wonder if I could install that under the frame... Probably not, it needs to be vertical.

Anyway, here's an update:

Got it running again with the Diesel 911 and the power service... Man, that 911 stuff is GREAT! Stinks like it would explode with a match, and probably dissolved most of the blockage. Which obligingly flowed forward into the small purolator filter and plugged that. So that filter did it's job perfectly. It took all afternoon almost idling in stop-and-go to do that, and then the engine did the limp-mode thing a few times before I changed that purolator out for a new one tonight. I have some extras for tomorrow... And I would like to get further than the North end of NC since I left from DC today. This is a depressing rate of movement. But at least its moving, and I know that the crud is leaving the tank.

For the record: What was in the filter did NOT look like it came from the WVO or any food particulates. It was quite dark looking.

A lift pump is certainly in my future.
Author:  nursecosmo [ Sat Aug 23, 2008 4:16 am ]
Post subject: 
geordi wrote:
Good to know!

I have a Stanadyne filter in the trailer waiting to install, and I do have the lift pump for that floating around somewhere. I wonder if I could install that under the frame... Probably not, it needs to be vertical.

Anyway, here's an update:

Got it running again with the Diesel 911 and the power service... Man, that 911 stuff is GREAT! Stinks like it would explode with a match, and probably dissolved most of the blockage. Which obligingly flowed forward into the small purolator filter and plugged that. So that filter did it's job perfectly. It took all afternoon almost idling in stop-and-go to do that, and then the engine did the limp-mode thing a few times before I changed that purolator out for a new one tonight. I have some extras for tomorrow... And I would like to get further than the North end of NC since I left from DC today. This is a depressing rate of movement. But at least its moving, and I know that the crud is leaving the tank.

For the record: What was in the filter did NOT look like it came from the WVO or any food particulates. It was quite dark looking.

A lift pump is certainly in my future.


You almost certainly have algae in the tank if you are running a veggy blend. It loves warm weather and there does not even have to be visible water in the oil. Throw a bottle of killem algae killer in the tank and wipe it out. but know that you will plug the filter as the little germs die. BTW I am no longer running WMO, I have a better fuel now not affected by temperature.
Author:  retmil46 [ Sat Aug 23, 2008 10:51 am ]
Post subject: 
Although I question the wisdom of running even a WVO blend thru a HPCR diesel, I feel your pain in having fuel problems on a long trip far from home.

On my recent trip to Texas with the '87 MB, I got a crappy tank of fuel from a Pilot truck stop in western TN. End result was I had to spend upwards of 1 1/2 hours at a service station in Sulphur Springs TX changing out all 3 fuel filters. Luckily I'd had the foresight to bring all the necessary tools and spare parts to take care of such an emergency.
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