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Drivability issue drama continues
http://www.lostjeeps.com/forum/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=36155		 Page 1 of 2
Author:  JL Rockies [ Tue Sep 23, 2008 11:45 am ]
Post subject:  Drivability issue drama continues
This is the third time I am attempting posting this, hopefully, no errors!

Background:

While attending LOST ECS I developed a wooshing sound under the hood, black smoke and loss of power. CEL came on and the codes were P0299 and P0401. The dealer told me that the EGR valve needs replacing and no warranty: $700. I did the job myself the past weekend.

After the job was done, it drove worse; more black smoke and surging under acceleration. I took is to a friends house and read the codes P0101, P0299 and P0401. I was hoping the later two were just left overs from before the repair. I cleared the codes and drove home surging the whole way.

When the EGR was removed, there was some damage to the plastic black fuel block thing bolted to the egine just above the EGR. There was a slight diesel leak and I figured it was the source of the surging. I fixed the leak with som expoxy putty this morning and primed the fuel system and bled out the air. I took her for a spin and the black smoke and surging continued. keeping in mind that the P0101 had something to do with the MAF sensor, I unplugged it. Took her for a spin and it drove the best it has in over a month. No more surging or black smoke, but still not much power.

The CEL is currently on and I am hoping the next time I read the codes I don't see a P0299 and P0401, I'd be OK with the P0101 since the MAF is unplugged. The girly man power thing is concerning. I have to floor it to get up to 45 mph. The tach winds out to 3.5K before shifting. It's just not the sexual tyranosaurus it was back in July.

If anyone read through this whole thing, I'd appreciate some advice. I plan to buy a code reader this weekend, does anyone have a suggestion on a low-cost reader? I read somewhere that Harbor Freight had one thats accptable.
Author:  JL Rockies [ Tue Sep 23, 2008 12:11 pm ]
Post subject: 
I'd like to add that as you can see by my avitar, back in June, I installed a snorkle (like the other cool kids 8) ). After the installation, I got a CEL right after start up, but it went away by itself later that evening and never came on again. I never got to read the code, I mention this simply because it's in the chain of events.

I will try to clean the MAF sensor this weekend with that CRC stuff.

What is that other sensor that's mounted to the lid of the filter box?
Author:  bdptp73 [ Tue Sep 23, 2008 12:17 pm ]
Post subject: 
I believe you blew a boost hose. Black smoke would mean either too muck fuel or not enough air. I would bet it on the lack of air side because of the lack of power and the wooshing sound under the hood. I do not know what the sensor is in the airbox.

Good Luck,

Jason
Author:  kccrd [ Tue Sep 23, 2008 12:24 pm ]
Post subject: 
Have you checked your boost hose coming out of the intercooler down to the engine on the drivers side. Mine got a 1 inch blowout in it and I lost most power and it made a loud sucking sound. I ordered the new hose for $79.00 and replaced it problem solved.
Author:  bugnout [ Tue Sep 23, 2008 12:26 pm ]
Post subject: 
I'm a little confused,

The Mass Air Flow Sensor (MAF) is the sensor on the hose from the airbox. Gives you the P0101 when unhooked (ORM)

The Mass Air Pressure Sensor (MAP) is on the top of the engine near the back. It senses the charge pressure of the air coming from the Inter cooler and the turbo. if its dirty or fouled up it can cause the ECM to overfuel resulting in black smoke. I clean this at every oil change with brake cleaner.

You didn't say if the wooshing was gone. If not, I'd suspect one of either the hoses, turbo to intercooler or out of the intercooler has split or come loose. They are not always easy to spot take them off and inspect them.
Author:  JL Rockies [ Tue Sep 23, 2008 1:19 pm ]
Post subject: 
I cleaned the MAP for the first time while I was on the trail and first got the CEL. I am pretty sure it's still clean.

I did have to removed the CAC hose (the one connected to the FCV) and I didn't notice any splits, but to be honest, I was more focused on the freakin' EGR.

I can tell you that I noticed quite a bit of oily muck deposited on parts below the FCV. I wasn't sure if it poured out when I disconnected the hose or not. I guess if there is a split in the CAC hose, goop would deposit down there.

If the hose was cracked, would it trigger a P0299? The P0299 was actually the first error code I got before the P0401 was added.
Author:  Sir Sam [ Tue Sep 23, 2008 1:37 pm ]
Post subject: 
I know this is stating the obvious. But have you checked your boost hoses? P0299 is usually associated with a burst boost hose. And the symptoms you've described sound like classic boost hose failure.
Author:  ATXKJ [ Tue Sep 23, 2008 1:39 pm ]
Post subject: 
The P0299 has shown up in threads about the blown CAC hose, the EGR and a 'vacuum' line - which wasn't identified.

http://www.lostjeeps.com/forum/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?t=23800&highlight=p0299
http://www.lostjeeps.com/forum/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?t=23766&highlight=p0299
http://www.lostjeeps.com/forum/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?t=26002&highlight=p0299

I don't remember the codes but black smoke, low power and wooshing sounds - describe my CAC hose when it blew.
Author:  Sir Sam [ Tue Sep 23, 2008 1:43 pm ]
Post subject: 
ATXKJ wrote:
The P0299 has shown up in threads about the blown CAC hose, the EGR and a 'vacuum' line - which wasn't identified.

http://www.lostjeeps.com/forum/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?t=23800&highlight=p0299
http://www.lostjeeps.com/forum/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?t=23766&highlight=p0299
http://www.lostjeeps.com/forum/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?t=26002&highlight=p0299

I don't remember the codes but black smoke, low power and wooshing sounds - describe my CAC hose when it blew.


yup, same symptoms as mine.
Author:  bugnout [ Tue Sep 23, 2008 1:46 pm ]
Post subject: 
P0299 is turbo under boost.

bad MAP sensor or wiring
Clogged air filter
bad turbo
bad hoses
intercooler clogged
bad EGR


probably others, but that is where I would look first.
Author:  JL Rockies [ Tue Sep 23, 2008 2:28 pm ]
Post subject: 
The MAP was very dirty when I cleaned it for the first time @64K miles. Only about 1K miles since I cleaned it last.
The filter is new, it's one of those super-cool Amsoil deals.
Would the turbo make wooshing sound if bad? I assumed that the fact it was making boost noises meant it was working.
Hoses could be bad, the CAC is all slimey. How many hoses are associated with the turbo? I thought two.
If the intercooler is clogged, is there a test for that?
The EGR is new, I replaced it only this past weekend.
Author:  Sir Sam [ Tue Sep 23, 2008 2:31 pm ]
Post subject: 
JL Rockies wrote:
The MAP was very dirty when I cleaned it for the first time @64K miles. Only about 1K miles since I cleaned it last.
The filter is new, it's one of those super-cool Amsoil deals.
Would the turbo make wooshing sound if bad? I assumed that the fact it was making boost noises meant it was working.
Hoses could be bad, the CAC is all slimey. How many hoses are associated with the turbo? I thought two.
If the intercooler is clogged, is there a test for that?
The EGR is new, I replaced it only this past weekend.


Two boost hoses, pull them both off and check them - see relevant samco pictures thread for pics of boost hoses.
Author:  JL Rockies [ Tue Sep 23, 2008 2:49 pm ]
Post subject: 
I was thinking the problem lies in the MAF since it dives much better with it unplugged (no surging or black smoke), but I'm not to good to check the hoses.
Author:  bugnout [ Tue Sep 23, 2008 4:02 pm ]
Post subject: 
If you disconnect the MAF your basicly disabling the EGR. No exhaust gases being recycled to the intake.

If your still making a wooshing sound that it didn't make before you had this issue , look at the hoses and the connections.
Author:  nursecosmo [ Tue Sep 23, 2008 6:29 pm ]
Post subject: 
Do you have a birds nest in the snorkel? Perhaps it is collapsing somewhere and choking off the air flow. If it were me I would disconnect it from the airbox and drive it up the block just to see, and then move to the CAC hoses if that wasn't the problem.
Author:  bigugly [ Tue Sep 23, 2008 6:46 pm ]
Post subject: 
when I blew my boost hose I had the whooshing sound, black smoke, and surging. The surging came from when the turbo spooled causing the surge and then it sounded like it would stop causing the surge to stop. When the hose burst there were quick surges because the turbo would spool for quick short bursts.

Replacing the hoses fixed the problem.
Author:  Diggerfreek [ Tue Sep 23, 2008 6:55 pm ]
Post subject: 
Ok as said before check your hoses. Black smoke from a diesel is unburnt fuel. So knowing that and knowing that you have a whoosh sound, I would a hose just like every one else
Author:  KJ 119 [ Tue Sep 23, 2008 6:58 pm ]
Post subject: 
JL Rockies wrote:
Would the turbo make wooshing sound if bad? I assumed that the fact it was making boost noises meant it was working.

JL The wooshing sound is the snoekel.Since I installed mine,I've been hearing the woosh when the turbo kicks in.
I kinda like it.But I find it strange that you are just noticing it.
The power loss????Tried cetain booster?
Author:  JL Rockies [ Tue Sep 23, 2008 7:55 pm ]
Post subject:  WhooooHOOOOO
I took the CAC hose of tonight and inspected it carefully. Underneath the hose near the inter cooler, there was a 4" long slit. Since I don't have a spare CAC hose lying around, I patched the slit with epoxy putty and duct tape over that. I took her for a quick spin and I had all my power back!!!

I pulled over and plugged the MAF back in and it still drove great (no more surging). I still have the CEL, but I will not be able to read and clear the codes until this weekend.

I am still looking for a cheap scanner recommendation. I read Harbor Freight has one for $40 that works good, any confirmation on this?


Thanks for the help guys.
Author:  Pablo [ Tue Sep 23, 2008 8:01 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: WhooooHOOOOO
JL Rockies wrote:
I took the CAC hose of tonight and inspected it carefully. Underneath the hose near the inter cooler, there was a 4" long slit. Since I don't have a spare CAC hose lying around, I patched the slit with epoxy putty and duct tape over that. I took her for a quick spin and I had all my power back!!!

I pulled over and plugged the MAF back in and it still drove great (no more surging). I still have the CEL, but I will not be able to read and clear the codes until this weekend.

I am still looking for a cheap scanner recommendation. I read Harbor Freight has one for $40 that works good, any confirmation on this?


Thanks for the help guys.


And the dealer told you to replace the EGR? Hope you kept the old one. It probably still works.

CRD Owner: "My window won't roll up."

Dealership: "Oh. Lets replace your EGR and change the blinker fluid. That will be $800 please..."
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