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PostPosted: Sun Jan 22, 2006 11:54 pm 
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Yeah, that makes sense, Ranger1. I'm with you that I would rather not have a device that makes the high PSI consistently pop the relief valve.

As for the flocking (probably more accurately "floccing," since I think the term comes from flocculation...no, not flatulation), I think as with all things biodiesel, much depends on the quality of the processing, feed stock, and so forth. But the implication of some of the information I've seen is that even spec biodiesel may not react well in fuel rails that are running 30-40kpsi. Cummins, Scania and other diesel manufacturers are experimenting with pressures higher than 30kpsi for new production engines.

Well, my big fuel hog is the one I'm mostly brewing biodiesel for, since it only gets about 16mpg. Fuel rail pressure in that one is relatively low at 12kpsi. But the CRD seems to like it, too!

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PostPosted: Mon Jan 23, 2006 7:11 am 
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Heres what marketing said I can say (plus my little bit);

Our Diesel Tuning Modules are specifically designed and tested to achieve enhanced performance by modifying the electronic diesel fuel injection parameter mappings.Its is through careful interplay of these parameter values and characteristics that optimum performance of your engine be achieved. One of the reasons this optimisation is required is manufacturing variances and varing fuel qualities across the country, across the world. Vehicle manufacturers wish to produce one version of a vehicle for worldwide distribution. This means they must choose the lowest common denominators, and for go some performance gains.
The turbo boost pressure is not altered by our modules and dynamically increases parameters to the enhanced values of the electronic diesel fuel injection system. within the manufacturers specification. A number of engine parameters are modified, depending on the specifc engine and its operating condition. Usually these will include a number of aspects, including fuel injection timimg and volume. Increases in boost can cause ECU error codes if not managed carefully. Our modules permit the orignal ECU to handle all of its error and sanity checks. Unlike some other systems on the market, our modules has been extensively tested in real world conditions from the heat of the deserts to the cold climates of the alpine regions, in day to day city driving to the demanding slogging off road outback usage. They are truly tested Australian tough!
Our Common Rail (and other digitaly managed fuel systems the) Diesel Tuning Modules also have adjustable tuning via a moveable connection. The Diesel Tuning Module can also be tuned using a MS Windows computer (typically a laptop).. This is a form of tune that can do considerably more than the manual adjustment. Once the module is installed a dealer can actually sit in the driver's seat and re-programmed as he drives along (although we advise to have an assiatant do this for safety reasons). As well as overall power being able to be increased, the power can be moved further down or up the range and the power delivered can be varied to be smooth or aggressive.
Another great advantage of this is that if you decide to enhance your vehicle further, through maybe larger intercoolers, larger exhausts etc. you can easily adjust the Diesel Tuning Module to match the new modification so the full potential can be reached. With fixed map boxes and chips this is not possible and a new chip or box would be required.
Ppower and torque can be felt immediately after the moduleis fitted. The throttle response is improved and particularly low and mid range torque is vastly improved, making the overall performance of the vehicle completely different. This is particulalry valuable when precise throttle reesponse is required in off road conditions. Not only that, but the improved power and torque mean that you can approach obstacles in a controlled manner, not relying on brute momentum to carry you through or over them.
When carrying loads and/or towing the extra power is a also great advantage. The overall drive becomes more pleasurable and the engine in most instances actually runs smoother.
Many onwers are repoting benefits of 5-10% better fuel economy. This obviously varies from vehicle to vehicle, and more particulalry the driving style. After serveral months most drivers stop 'testing' the additional performance, and return to their prior driving style to achieve the improved economy.

-- end marketing supplied content

Personally my fuel consumption is unchanged since fitting the module 95K kilometeres ago, I just drive a little harder now :P

Across the diesel injection industry many manufacturers are going to higher injection pressures for better atomisation, and resulting improved burn and emissions reductions. As side benifet there is more power (until EGR and the likes are added).

Persoanlly I have seen issues with VG turbos when people try to bump the boost too much. Some VGT have poor resolution (too few possible settings). This causes the boost to shoot to about 10PSI over the factory setting, then drop back to normal. Dyno graphs confirm the same variance in power. Sometimes ECU codes are set. This overboost is not a good thing, and may be discovered at a scheduled service :evil:

EGT's have well been covered by many, including Gale Banks & Pittsborough Diesel (sp) in USA - the last is very reputable and knowledgable on big diesel engines form any years, so there is no need for me to through that again.

Like a petrol (gass) performance engine, the appropriate monitoring gauges & equipment should be installed and USED by the operator. Trucks with DT motors back have had EGT gauges standard fitment since the early '70's - MACK R600/F600 is an example. In fact I know of a number of cooked (standard) truck engines because the operator did not read the gauges and adjust drving style tosuit the conditions.

Unfortunately many standard gauges in late model vehicles are only just more than the old idiot lamps. There are very inaccurate, and only serve as a general indication. Using these or the associated sensors to base critical decisions on is silly. eg - direct from one manufaturers shop manual as servicable (not jeep - cause I dont have one immediately avail);
100C 0.15 - 0.28
80C 0.2 - 0.45
60C 0.4 - 0.8

As you can see you couldnot rely on that temperature sensor to make any definitive ECT (or IAT - itst the same sensor in a differnt location) assessment. Similar applies for the bosot sensor! We where going to produce our ownd digital data logger, but with that sort of variance you can only consider the changes in the values, not the actual values themselves. Alas, they are definitive (accurate), but only relative. Each sensor could fall between the serviceable extremes and be considered servicable. You cant rely on factory analog sesnors either for critical tuning decisions, so eleimiate anybody who believes that their use is any more advanced or advantageous.

Anyway, enough words from me for today.

Everybody, have a great day!

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PostPosted: Mon Jan 23, 2006 9:42 am 
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How about some before/after dyno numbers!?!

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PostPosted: Mon Jan 23, 2006 8:36 pm 
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Thanks Dave. You provided some good information. I also would love to see some dyno charts if you have some. From your site, I see a 29HP increase on the 2.8 CRD, but no torque. Do you have any torque figures? If you've dyno'd a 2.8 CRD, how does the torque curve look after your tuner is installed?

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PostPosted: Mon Jan 23, 2006 9:40 pm 
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The 29HP is a very safe figure for us to quote, because we know that it is on the lower end of what will be delivered. The unit can be adjusted for more power, but typically the problem is insufficient air to burn the fuel without generating excessive smoke (dont want to upset EPA - we meet their local & TUV requirements).

There is an increase in torque from under 1600RPM through to redline. The largest % increases are between 2000RPM & about 3000RPM (where the strongest torque is). This is the normal drivng rev range (remeber diesel are not rev engines)

There is an additional 53NM (sorry dont have conversion to imperial for that one - we are all metric) above the factory 400NM. The max torque is slighhtly higher revs - about 2000RPM (up from factory 1800RPM). This is all without improved induction or exhaust systems (ie standard car).

Most people are only interested in the peak values (and typically on the power), so these are the only ones we keep readily available. During most dyno sessions we are usually only interested in the percentage increase, so that comparisions can be made between modifications.

Hope that helps.

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PostPosted: Mon Jan 23, 2006 10:24 pm 
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It does help Dave. If my conversion is correct, 53 NM is ~ 39 ft-lbs of torque. In re-reading your post, I see this section on the error tolerance of factory analog sensors: "You cant rely on factory analog sesnors either for critical tuning decisions, so eleimiate anybody who believes that their use is any more advanced or advantageous."

What I don't understand is if you use the fuel rail pressure sensor as one of your inputs, wouldn't you be relying on the factory analog sensors as well? I'm guessing that all diesel tuner manufacters are limited to the signals they can intercept and modify if they stay outside of the ECU programming itself, in order to alter ECU behavior for increased performance; these seem to be the MAF, boost sensor signals, injection pump command signals from the ECU and fuel rail pressure sensors. If you avoid altering the boost and IP pump control signals, then that would seem to leave fuel rail pressure to modify.

From the response I received from Digi, they appear to indicate that the ECU can be induced to alter timing and pulse width of the fuel injectors by modification of fuel rail sensor signals to the ECU. TDR also deduced something like this when fuel pressure had reached maximum levels before the relief valve was set to activate (it didn't during their testing) so they inferred that the ECU was tricked into altering timing and fuel pulse width to the injectors to compensate for "low" fuel rail pressure.

I'm guessing that your product and some others work along these lines. I also asked Digi in a new question - if they at any time ever surpassed the CRD factory fuel rail pressure limits of ~ 24,000 psi. Looking forward to their answer. If they (and others) can provide performance increase without exceeding those parameters, it looks to be a great solution to enhanced performance.

Thanks,

Ranger1

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Jan 24, 2006 6:08 am 
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The variance in sensors is one reason that some cars go harder than others ex factory (along with other mechanical parts be more or less towards one end the performance spectrum). Those quoted are all temperature sensors. Pressure sensors tend to be more consistant. Timing sensors usually rely on a mechnical reference that can be adjusted mechanically at assembly for the correct setting.

As a result most modules will need to take an 'average' or max values for their use in determining the changes they make & send to the ECU. But the car is usually cold even after a minute of running. Most other sensors (boost pressure) will be close to a predetermined value. Small adj can be done in software to 'normalise' these, but not temperature.

Some things - like ECT have to be very accurate to provide any value - 200F is warm, 215F is too hot. Thats about 7.5% variance, but too much if used as a safety mechanism using ECT to determine if its time to dump fuel to save the engine unless its set way conserative. If too conserative the engine will have trouble making a reasonable power increase oterhwise without a similar vehicle may overfuelling with that 7.5% variance :x

EGT probes are far more reliable (used with the correct cct), but drive up cost a few hundrd US$ (think double in A$) & require fitting beyond many peoples ability - so limited market with a high price tag. Better to drop a little power, drop the price, increase the buyer market and not rely on any of the variables above.

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PostPosted: Tue Jan 24, 2006 8:28 am 
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Thanks - that makes sense now.

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PostPosted: Tue Jan 24, 2006 11:12 pm 
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I found some further information on a site that sells diesel tuning chips in Europe (DieselTuning). This didn't come from the Digi site (although they claim TUV certification), but I did find this FAQ section from DieselTuning interesting:

"What does TUV mean?
TUV approval means the product complies with legal exhaust-emissions standards. TUV testing includes:
· The use of quality materials in the manufacture of a given product in the automotive sector
· Emissions standards are of a similar nature of the original manufacturer
· No danger of the product in fitting or in use
· Power and economy stated figures are accurate and are not misleading"


This might be something to look for if purchasing a diesel tuning system built for European or Far Eastern markets. I haven't seen equivalent certification for US built products.

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2005 LTD CRD RB1 NAV/Htd Leather seats/Amsoil EA filters
SunCoast Mega Trans & Billet TC/PML pan/Aux cooler
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IronMan Lift/Shocks/Provent/Moog ball joints/ V6 Airbox/Fan/Hayden
Cobalt Boost/EGT/Oil/Trans/Volt gauges/Aeroturbine 2525
Yeti Hot Tune/Odessey 65/Samco's/Michelin Defenders


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Jan 25, 2006 10:38 pm 
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"I also asked Digi in a new question - if they at any time ever surpassed the CRD factory fuel rail pressure limits of ~ 24,000 psi. Looking forward to their answer. If they (and others) can provide performance increase without exceeding those parameters, it looks to be a great solution to enhanced performance. "

I received a reply back from a Digi distributor to the effect that they do not alter rail pressure or turbo pressure. I would also add that its been a week since I installed mine and the CRD seems to have adjusted nicely to it. The power increase is very smooth, linear and definitely adds oomph to the CRD. The throttle response feels much improved, in the sense that a light touch is met with a very fast, smooth increase in speed. It somehow makes the engine feel more responsive. It is not one of those tuners you see on Speed Channel on a Cummins diesel with huge black clouds of exhaust smoke and burning rubber tires. I have yet to see any exhaust smoke since installing it.

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Cobalt Boost/EGT/Oil/Trans/Volt gauges/Aeroturbine 2525
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 26, 2006 8:23 am 
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What exactly is the dirrerence in the E-spec tune compared tot he NA-spec tune? Can the E-spec tune be used on a NA CRD?


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PostPosted: Thu Jan 26, 2006 8:28 am 
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I'm not sure what you mean by e-spec tune - when I refer to emissions map I mean the code DCX had developed for the ECU that handles the US EPA requirements. If you're referring to the Digi CR, the unit I bought doesn't say anything about US versus European spec. I assumed it was the same program as Digi never mentioned about a US spec version.

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SunCoast Mega Trans & Billet TC/PML pan/Aux cooler
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IronMan Lift/Shocks/Provent/Moog ball joints/ V6 Airbox/Fan/Hayden
Cobalt Boost/EGT/Oil/Trans/Volt gauges/Aeroturbine 2525
Yeti Hot Tune/Odessey 65/Samco's/Michelin Defenders


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PostPosted: Thu Jan 26, 2006 9:44 am 
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Ranger1
I realize that you've only had the "mod" for a short time, but have you seen an increase/decrease in your fuel economy?


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PostPosted: Thu Jan 26, 2006 2:56 pm 
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Going by the EVIC only, its about the same mileage... however, the first week I had it, I really got on the pedal, enjoying the extra power a little too much! Once I get back to my normal driving habits, I can check it and let you know.

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2005 LTD CRD RB1 NAV/Htd Leather seats/Amsoil EA filters
SunCoast Mega Trans & Billet TC/PML pan/Aux cooler
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IronMan Lift/Shocks/Provent/Moog ball joints/ V6 Airbox/Fan/Hayden
Cobalt Boost/EGT/Oil/Trans/Volt gauges/Aeroturbine 2525
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 27, 2006 12:34 am 
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Ranger1 wrote:
Going by the EVIC only, its about the same mileage... however, the first week I had it, I really got on the pedal, enjoying the extra power a little too much! Once I get back to my normal driving habits, I can check it and let you know.


This is often the case (think I may have highlighted it early - perhaps on another thread here.)

I'm no worse, but make use of the extra horses :D

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PostPosted: Fri Jan 27, 2006 3:56 pm 
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Ranger1 wrote:
I found some further information on a site that sells diesel tuning chips in Europe (DieselTuning). This didn't come from the Digi site (although they claim TUV certification), but I did find this FAQ section from DieselTuning interesting:

"What does TUV mean?
TUV approval means the product complies with legal exhaust-emissions standards. TUV testing includes:
· The use of quality materials in the manufacture of a given product in the automotive sector
· Emissions standards are of a similar nature of the original manufacturer
· No danger of the product in fitting or in use
· Power and economy stated figures are accurate and are not misleading"


This might be something to look for if purchasing a diesel tuning system built for European or Far Eastern markets. I haven't seen equivalent certification for US built products.


TUV is alot more. To get TUV certification that item has to go through a series of tough testing to get a stamp. Anything you put on a car has to have a TUV Cert on it. Wheels, filters, fuel, oil your name it. There is also a thing called ABA # that goes along with TUV. TUV is also a 2year inspection you must pass. It is no simple task either. It takes several hours to get a TUV inspection done. They check EVERYTHING. Most US car on the road would fail TUV inspection. I see it all the time. Soldiers get their cars from the US and they get a half-assed TUV inspection and still fail. My New KJ I pick up next week would not pass TUV if I took it there. It does not meet the particle filter standards for a diesel car. TUV is a good thing.


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 Post subject: Had the DIGI CR installed for a week
PostPosted: Sat Feb 04, 2006 2:47 am 
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WOW..... The stock configuration of the CRD is impressive considering the limitations of the tranny and the engine size. Adding the DIGI CR has really added that seat of the pants feeling to it's excelleration. The turbo lag is still there, but it is shorter and with the right timeing on the accelerator, the KJ really moves.

The torque does take some getting used to though. Excellerating around a corner takes allot lighter foot than before. Otherwise, it's really easy to make some noise out of the tires (even 245/75/16 GY MTRs). I may have to be a little more diligent about tire rotation now. I've also noticed abit of issue making U-turns on a dirt road. If you're not careful, it'll whip around and throw dirt behind you before you know it.

As for the milage, I have not drained a tank, and do not have an EVIC install. As a result, I do not have any numbers to numbers on yet. I will repost after my next couple of fill ups. I would estimate that I am currently in line with roughly a 2MPG gain as is claimed on the Diesel Power website.

All in all, not bad for a 5 minute install and $530 pricetag. Compared to many of the other modules available for this engine, I think it's a pretty good value. It's tunable with settings I can move up to (recommended settings are fine though), about $70 cheaper than the sale price for the Dr. Preditor module, and it's available unlike Edge, Bullydog, or Banks.

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 Post subject: Re: Had the DIGI CR installed for a week
PostPosted: Mon Feb 06, 2006 10:43 pm 
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spoonyG wrote:
WOW..... The stock configuration of the CRD is impressive considering the limitations of the tranny and the engine size. Adding the DIGI CR has really added that seat of the pants feeling to it's excelleration. The turbo lag is still there, but it is shorter and with the right timeing on the accelerator, the KJ really moves.


Greetings Everyone,

Newbie here! I represent Diesel Power in the US and have been following the comments and posts about the various tuning products. Glad to hear the DIGI CR module is so well liked. I have been running the DIGI CR module on my Dodge/Freightliner Sprinter for a year without any problems. This includes some hard-core testing. If you have any additional questions, I would be happy to help. BTW spoonyG, I see you have experienced the WOW Factor!

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John Bendit
Diesel Power USA
dieselpowermodule.com
A division of Upscale Automotive, Inc.
19460 SW 89th Ave.
Tualatin, OR 97062
503-692-0846


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