LOST JEEPS :: View topic - Time for lift pump

I have read a few threads for the lift pump and have yet to see the benefits shared. I assume it is to provide more even fuel pressure in the line? Does it help during cold weather also?

I need to run by the auto parts store today and will take a look at what is available.

I did the Facet.
At less than $80 for all the parts and pieces, I felt it was the best value.
Especially since I had no symptoms of an air in fuel problem. Purely a
preventative measure.
I did everything under the hood and bolted it to the engine with a DIY bracket.
When people ask me "whats that for?" I tell them that it keeps the fuel
filter pressurized. Which is the truth.
It may not be the best performer but it does what I ask it to.

The Facet pump is really noisy when dry. Once its primed though, it quiets
down a lot. Cant hear it at all with the engine running.

Where on the engine did you find a place to mount the pump

Went over to Car Quest and they found a possible one. Part # E8012S 5-9 psi, 30gp
Does anyone know if they have to specify they are for diesel fuel. This one said for any
carburated engine. Also it said not having a pre-filter may void pumps warranty, does anyone know if we have a screen or something in the tank? But at under $70 it might me worth a try.

VW's don't have them and they don't have air problems because of where the filter is mounted

But filter changes can sometimes be a pain :oops:

b100 wrote:

Went back to carquest and asked about diesel fuel compatibility and someone said it would not hold up long term in diesel fuel.
They had another universal diesel pump but it had 9.5-14psi and 40 gph. Is that too much for this set-up? part # e8153 about $89.

b100 wrote:

The Dork behind the counter is feeding you total BS. Diesel has nothing in it which would harm a pump. Think about it; Gasoline usually contains Ethanol, a high percentage of aromatics, and harsh detergents like Techron. Diesel is mostly inert and has infinitely higher lubricity. If anything it should make your pump last longer.

40 GPH sounds like a better choice to supply the IP with enough fuel. My first lift pump was a holly blue which supplied the IP with 15 PSI and 150 GPH without any adverse affects (except sounding like a jet engine).

I had considered getting a Carter pump from Murray's Discount Auto. On the package though, it says "Not for diesel fuel, gasoline only."

I suspect that the o-rings or seals in the pump may be the limiting factor. Diesel has a fair amount of aromatics in it too, albeit ones higher in molecular weight. It's not obvious how diesel could be harmful to the pump. Perhaps the design of the pump is determine in part by the viscosity of the fuel...? One designed for gasoline exhibits a premature failure when used with diesel?

Author:	b100 [ Tue Nov 04, 2008 5:45 pm ]
Post subject:	Time for lift pump
I think its time to do a lift pump. What has been the best "bang for buck".

Author:	mrkake [ Thu Nov 06, 2008 6:08 am ]
Post subject:
I am interested to hear people weigh in on this too. I don't care about the stealth option as I have been out of warranty for over 30,000 miles now. But I would like to know if there is a preferred brand/setup.

Author:	warp2diesel [ Thu Nov 06, 2008 6:50 am ]
Post subject:	Facet is the Cheapest, But I went with Carter
I found a Carter that was the same size as the GM 6.5L Turbo Diesel that had barbed fittings, wired it up and stuck it in line. The only drawback is the thump at idle, did the ORM and the engine noise drowned it out. Others have put in the Kennedy and are happy with it. The only problem you can run into is sucking some air in from the snap fitting on the tank top but, hose and clamps will solve the problem. The reason I nixed Facet, I threw too many into the trash when I had my own repair shop years ago and my arm had a strange sensation when I saw the pictures on the web sites. Here is a link to my installation: http://picasaweb.google.com/warp2diesel ... 2KAF5CQRQ# Good luck

Author:	flash7210 [ Thu Nov 06, 2008 10:03 am ]
Post subject:
I did the Facet. At less than $80 for all the parts and pieces, I felt it was the best value. Especially since I had no symptoms of an air in fuel problem. Purely a preventative measure. I did everything under the hood and bolted it to the engine with a DIY bracket. When people ask me "whats that for?" I tell them that it keeps the fuel filter pressurized. Which is the truth. It may not be the best performer but it does what I ask it to. The Facet pump is really noisy when dry. Once its primed though, it quiets down a lot. Cant hear it at all with the engine running.

Author:	jmoomaw [ Thu Nov 06, 2008 10:03 am ]
Post subject:	Lift Pump?
I have read a few threads for the lift pump and have yet to see the benefits shared. I assume it is to provide more even fuel pressure in the line? Does it help during cold weather also? I need to run by the auto parts store today and will take a look at what is available.

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Author:	flash7210 [ Thu Nov 06, 2008 11:38 am ]
Post subject:	Re: Lift Pump?
jmoomaw wrote: I have read a few threads for the lift pump and have yet to see the benefits shared. I assume it is to provide more even fuel pressure in the line? Does it help during cold weather also? I need to run by the auto parts store today and will take a look at what is available. Its not gonna make cold weather starting any easier. All the pump does is keep the fuel supply line under some pressure. Its not a replacement for the factory suction pump on the engine either. The factory suction pump has to suck fuel all the way from the tank. If there is a leak somewhere between the suction pump and the tank, air will get sucked into the line. This is a bad thing and can cause hard starting and rough running. Putting the fuel supply line under some pressure will keep air from getting sucked in. In the event of a leak, fuel will come out of the leak point rather than air being sucked in. This makes finding the leak A LOT EASIER. This is not to say that leaky fuel lines are a common occurance. But should you have symptoms of air-in-fuel, your gonna have a hell of a time trying to find out where that air is getting in from. The most likely leak point is at the fuel filter assembly. The gasket on the filter is a possible leak point. The fuel heater and temp sensor are possible leak points too. Especially if an air pocket develops around the fuel heater, causing it to overheat and melting the housing. I know, sounds like a lot of doom and gloom, but how does that saying go..? An ounce of prevention is worth more than a twelve pack of beer???

Author:	Joe Romas [ Thu Nov 06, 2008 1:38 pm ]
Post subject:
It's been said on here that it's as hard to seal a vacuum system as a 1000 psi system Our complete fuel system is under a vacuum to the CPR high pressure pump on the engine. The fuel lines were designed for gasoline modles and they have a pump in the tank So to eliminate all possibilities of air in the fuel the intank Cummins pump is it. It also makes a very neat and clean installation. It makes priming after a filter change a total non issue Yes the rest are all easier and cheaper. You decide That being said, a small amount of air in a diesel system is normal and the CP3 pump has the ability to purge it out. But the real problem is that the fuel filter head is the highest point in the system and air getts trapped there and causes various problems. You deside what kind of bang for your buck you want. But if you are one of the lucky ones and don't have a problem it will not cure it VW's don't have them and they don't have air problems because of where the filter is mounted But filter changes can sometimes be a pain

Author:	warp2diesel [ Thu Nov 06, 2008 2:31 pm ]
Post subject:	VWs don't have a problem until....
...the get a small air leak in the Bosch VE XX pump, then they suck air too. The TDI only has the pump drive seal so it is less prone, but the older ones had the speed control shaft and the cold start shaft to suck in air. I got sick of long cranking on my old '91 Jetta and installed a lift pump for faster starts. On the plus side unlike our Liberty CRDs the VWs have vacuum compatible fuel fittings and not the ones we have that are allergic to a vacuum and allow air to be sucked in. Any one who has had good luck with these fittings should buy a Power Ball ticket before their luck runs out I save my Faith for Religious issues and abide by the "Laws of Physics", unlike the Bean Counters who feel they are above them.

Author:	mackruss [ Thu Nov 06, 2008 3:25 pm ]
Post subject:
flash7210 wrote: I did the Facet. At less than $80 for all the parts and pieces, I felt it was the best value. Especially since I had no symptoms of an air in fuel problem. Purely a preventative measure. I did everything under the hood and bolted it to the engine with a DIY bracket. When people ask me "whats that for?" I tell them that it keeps the fuel filter pressurized. Which is the truth. It may not be the best performer but it does what I ask it to. The Facet pump is really noisy when dry. Once its primed though, it quiets down a lot. Cant hear it at all with the engine running. Where on the engine did you find a place to mount the pump

Author:	flash7210 [ Thu Nov 06, 2008 3:39 pm ]
Post subject:
Quote: Where on the engine did you find a place to mount the pump I just used existing bolt that were already there. Like one was the lower alternator mount and the other was on the intake manifold. I made my own bracket to fit.

Author:	b100 [ Thu Nov 06, 2008 3:41 pm ]
Post subject:	Lift Pump
Went over to Car Quest and they found a possible one. Part # E8012S 5-9 psi, 30gp Does anyone know if they have to specify they are for diesel fuel. This one said for any carburated engine. Also it said not having a pre-filter may void pumps warranty, does anyone know if we have a screen or something in the tank? But at under $70 it might me worth a try.

Author:	Joe Romas [ Thu Nov 06, 2008 4:44 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Lift Pump
b100 wrote: Went over to Car Quest and they found a possible one. Part # E8012S 5-9 psi, 30gp Does anyone know if they have to specify they are for diesel fuel. This one said for any carburated engine. Also it said not having a pre-filter may void pumps warranty, does anyone know if we have a screen or something in the tank? But at under $70 it might me worth a try. What you need to determine the most is if it will flow through when not working. That's the biggie I was told that "fuel is fuel" and for the several months I had it all was good. Mine came with a small filter that screwed into the input There is a lot of discussion on this subject that a search will turn up. Start with GMTD's thirty some page titled "it's ten o'clock, where's your lift pump" for starters

Author:	nursecosmo [ Thu Nov 06, 2008 7:47 pm ]
Post subject:
Joe Romas wrote: VW's don't have them and they don't have air problems because of where the filter is mounted But filter changes can sometimes be a pain Like you say Joe, the filter is not placed at the highest point in the fuel path but another important reason that they don't have nearly as many problems with air in fuel is because their filters are much less restrictive than ours. If memory serves, they filter down to ~12 microns, whereas ours has a rating of ~2 microns. It may not sound like a huge difference but ours is just small enough to pull the microscopic air bubbles out of solution, especially when the filter is slightly clogged.

Author:	Heather [ Thu Nov 06, 2008 7:53 pm ]
Post subject:
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Author:	nescosmo [ Fri Nov 07, 2008 1:11 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Lift Pump
b100 wrote: Went over to Car Quest and they found a possible one. Part # E8012S 5-9 psi, 30gp Does anyone know if they have to specify they are for diesel fuel. This one said for any carburated engine. Also it said not having a pre-filter may void pumps warranty, does anyone know if we have a screen or something in the tank? But at under $70 it might me worth a try. I install that pump on my CRD with the Ranco filter. If you go to Autozone they have it for about 40.oo and it come with a pre filter and is a free flow pump. with a back check valve. It's been on for about 5month with no problem. My air on the line went away and I love it.

Author:	b100 [ Fri Nov 07, 2008 4:02 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Lift Pump
b100 wrote: Went over to Car Quest and they found a possible one. Part # E8012S 5-9 psi, 30gp Does anyone know if they have to specify they are for diesel fuel. This one said for any carburated engine. Also it said not having a pre-filter may void pumps warranty, does anyone know if we have a screen or something in the tank? But at under $70 it might me worth a try. Went back to carquest and asked about diesel fuel compatibility and someone said it would not hold up long term in diesel fuel. They had another universal diesel pump but it had 9.5-14psi and 40 gph. Is that too much for this set-up? part # e8153 about $89.

Author:	nursecosmo [ Fri Nov 07, 2008 5:56 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Lift Pump
b100 wrote: b100 wrote: Went over to Car Quest and they found a possible one. Part # E8012S 5-9 psi, 30gp Does anyone know if they have to specify they are for diesel fuel. This one said for any carburated engine. Also it said not having a pre-filter may void pumps warranty, does anyone know if we have a screen or something in the tank? But at under $70 it might me worth a try. Went back to carquest and asked about diesel fuel compatibility and someone said it would not hold up long term in diesel fuel. They had another universal diesel pump but it had 9.5-14psi and 40 gph. Is that too much for this set-up? part # e8153 about $89. The Dork behind the counter is feeding you total BS. Diesel has nothing in it which would harm a pump. Think about it; Gasoline usually contains Ethanol, a high percentage of aromatics, and harsh detergents like Techron. Diesel is mostly inert and has infinitely higher lubricity. If anything it should make your pump last longer. 40 GPH sounds like a better choice to supply the IP with enough fuel. My first lift pump was a holly blue which supplied the IP with 15 PSI and 150 GPH without any adverse affects (except sounding like a jet engine).

Author:	Joe Romas [ Fri Nov 07, 2008 6:21 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Lift Pump
b100 wrote: Went back to carquest and asked about diesel fuel compatibility and someone said it would not hold up long term in diesel fuel. They had another universal diesel pump but it had 9.5-14psi and 40 gph. Is that too much for this set-up? part # e8153 about $89. Your getting closer to the approx $150 I paid for the Cummins pump for the Dodge. The newer Dodge trucks use the same Bosch pump as we do.

Author:	kdlewis1975 [ Fri Nov 07, 2008 11:02 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Lift Pump
nursecosmo wrote: b100 wrote: b100 wrote: Went over to Car Quest and they found a possible one. Part # E8012S 5-9 psi, 30gp Does anyone know if they have to specify they are for diesel fuel. This one said for any carburated engine. Also it said not having a pre-filter may void pumps warranty, does anyone know if we have a screen or something in the tank? But at under $70 it might me worth a try. Went back to carquest and asked about diesel fuel compatibility and someone said it would not hold up long term in diesel fuel. They had another universal diesel pump but it had 9.5-14psi and 40 gph. Is that too much for this set-up? part # e8153 about $89. The Dork behind the counter is feeding you total BS. Diesel has nothing in it which would harm a pump. Think about it; Gasoline usually contains Ethanol, a high percentage of aromatics, and harsh detergents like Techron. Diesel is mostly inert and has infinitely higher lubricity. If anything it should make your pump last longer. 40 GPH sounds like a better choice to supply the IP with enough fuel. My first lift pump was a holly blue which supplied the IP with 15 PSI and 150 GPH without any adverse affects (except sounding like a jet engine). I had considered getting a Carter pump from Murray's Discount Auto. On the package though, it says "Not for diesel fuel, gasoline only." I suspect that the o-rings or seals in the pump may be the limiting factor. Diesel has a fair amount of aromatics in it too, albeit ones higher in molecular weight. It's not obvious how diesel could be harmful to the pump. Perhaps the design of the pump is determine in part by the viscosity of the fuel...? One designed for gasoline exhibits a premature failure when used with diesel? I've considered this one: http://store.summitracing.com/partdetai ... toview=sku Summit here says it's compatible with both gasoline and diesel, however if you check out the Mr. Gasket website, they do specify different models for gasoline and diesel. Mr. Gasket also has some pretty neat see-through fuel filters.

Author:	nursecosmo [ Sat Nov 08, 2008 1:09 am ]
Post subject:	Re: Lift Pump
kdlewis1975 wrote: I had considered getting a Carter pump from Murray's Discount Auto. On the package though, it says "Not for diesel fuel, gasoline only." I suspect that the o-rings or seals in the pump may be the limiting factor. Diesel has a fair amount of aromatics in it too, albeit ones higher in molecular weight. It's not obvious how diesel could be harmful to the pump. Perhaps the design of the pump is determine in part by the viscosity of the fuel...? One designed for gasoline exhibits a premature failure when used with diesel? I would suspect that it says "for gasoline only" because when a potential buyer sees that they move on to the next higher priced model( much the same way that some Quick lube shops charge $5 more for the "CRD" oil filter and 2 bucks more for the "CRD" air filter even though they the same part as the gasser). The difference in viscosity might be a consideration if it weren't for the fact that they both have the same size internal ports and fittings. BTW, the aromatics in diesel are the same ones as in gasoline (benzene, napthalene, etc,, and a small amount of anthracene and tetracene) they are just found in much lower percentages than gasoline.