BMW Jumps into US Diesel Market

vtdog · **Joined:** Fri Sep 30, 2005 11:27 am **Posts:** 640

http://www.usatoday.com/money/autos/rev ... 335d_N.htm

onthehunt · **Posted:** Fri Nov 21, 2008 4:38 pm

Quote:

The car warns you 1,000 miles before the urea tank is empty. Once empty, to comply with the law, the engine will keep running but won't restart.

I can't believe they allow this. Talk about a saftey hazard. Car starts at $45,000. Just another luxury diesel that's priced out of reach for 99% of the working class. Let me know when they bring back the VW diesel Rabbit.

blake1827 · **Posted:** Fri Nov 21, 2008 4:40 pm

Well @ $45K it's gonna be a tough sell. Same problem as the Diesel Grand Cherokee, too expensive, people will opt for a HEMI motor... But a Mahindra truck on the other end of the price spectrum :lol:

aandlwoods · **Joined:** Mon Jun 09, 2008 4:53 pm **Posts:** 96

Its not really going to be a tough sell for them. It is the same car as the 335i with an engine that has better performance. They arent trying to target everyone that wants a diesel vehicle. They are trying to target the 3-series buyers that want a better performing engine. They are just offering another option for their best selling vehicle. Also has something to do with MPG ratings the company has to get to sell in the U.S or something like that.

I like that Mahindra but it seems a little underpowered... 67HP? WTF? MPG is important but jeez, this isnt the 1950's.

bdptp73 · **Posted:** Fri Nov 21, 2008 5:37 pm

aandlwoods wrote:

I like that Mahindra but it seems a little underpowered... 67HP? WTF? MPG is important but jeez, this isnt the 1950's.

2009 Mahindra
• Engine: 2.2-liter I-4 turbodiesel
• Ratings: 180 horsepower, 300 pound-feet of torque
• Wheelbase: 120.0 inches
• Cab configurations: Regular and crew
• Frame: Fully boxed
• Axles: IFS, solid rear

This seems to be a little more than 67HP

bdptp73 · **Posted:** Fri Nov 21, 2008 5:47 pm

blake1827 wrote:

Well @ $45K it's gonna be a tough sell. Same problem as the Diesel Grand Cherokee, too expensive, people will opt for a HEMI motor... But a Mahindra truck on the other end of the price spectrum :lol:

The BMW has 50 more HP and 50 more ftlbs of torque than the GC with the same displacement. It will be interesting to see what the boys at Inmotion could do with this thing, 500 ftlbs maybe? :twisted:

That might be worth the 45K.

JL Rockies · **Posted:** Fri Nov 21, 2008 6:14 pm

onthehunt wrote:

Quote:

The car warns you 1,000 miles before the urea tank is empty. Once empty, to comply with the law, the engine will keep running but won't restart.

I can't believe they allow this. Talk about a saftey hazard. Car starts at $45,000. Just another luxury diesel that's priced out of reach for 99% of the working class. Let me know when they bring back the VW diesel Rabbit.

BMW doesn't build cars for the "working class" nor do they build the Rabbit.

barnez224 · **Joined:** Fri Jan 19, 2007 11:28 am **Posts:** 130

I agree with onthehunt, god only knows what the urea tank will cost to refill out of warranty...what kind of environmental con-job is this? This team of engineers must have worked for the government before coming to BMW. I'm all for clean diesel technology but something to this extent is getting a little out of hand. If you are willing to pay a little extra for a diesel anyway, just tack the cost onto the sticker price of the car. In this case, at $45K what's another grand or two for throwing in tank refills for the life of the car?

05infernoCRDL · **Posted:** Fri Nov 21, 2008 11:27 pm

barnez224 wrote:

I agree with onthehunt, god only knows what the urea tank will cost to refill out of warranty

get a few buddies to piss in the tank for ya... urea is basically urine right?

it'll cost a case of beer :twisted:

warp2diesel · **Posted:** Sat Nov 22, 2008 10:52 am

My Son Lives and Works in Amsterdam and owns a 528d, I sent him the link for the 335d and he sent this one back to me. No wonder the engine performes.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Steyr_AUG

naturist · **Posted:** Sat Nov 22, 2008 8:29 pm

barnez224 wrote:

I agree with onthehunt, god only knows what the urea tank will cost to refill out of warranty.

I got news for you, Big Guy, but urea is one of the cheapest industrial chemicals known to mankind. A dump truck full costs less than a decent meal.

warp2diesel · **Posted:** Sat Nov 22, 2008 9:10 pm

naturist wrote:

barnez224 wrote:

I agree with onthehunt, god only knows what the urea tank will cost to refill out of warranty.

I got news for you, Big Guy, but urea is one of the cheapest industrial chemicals known to mankind. A dump truck full costs less than a decent meal.

Wait until the Meth Heads figure out how to use Urea instead of Anhydrous Ammonia, Then they will start steeling it :twisted:

Better put some 3M stock in your 401K I heard that their profits will shoot up when they start selling more Scotch-Locks :idea:

One problem with Urea in water is that it freezes. My brother a Fuel Systems Engineer brought this to my attention last year :shock:

Since human urine is a solution containing Urea and a bunch of salt, drink a lot of beer, find a way to remove the salt, you can refill your tank

Would Reverse Osmosis work :?:

For around $200 you could have your own processing unit :idea:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Urea

Urea is made from Ammonia and Carbon Dioxide (Made from Natural Gas)

geordi · **Posted:** Sun Nov 23, 2008 1:38 am

Of course it's produced from yet another FOSSIL FUEL, that is the only proper way to continue to line the pockets of the oil industry while giving the citizens yet another 'feel good' method of self denial!

The ONLY proper way to make less emissions (A laudable goal, to be sure) is to BURN LESS FOSSIL FUELS!

Everything that the CARB and the EPA (Carb's ball washers) has produced in the last 30 years has INCREASED the amount of fuel used, rather than actually working to reduce overall consumption. Injection of raw fuel on the EXHAUST STROKE in the latest engines is complete lunacy, and proof positive of their lack of both objectivity and innovation.

I hate to admit it, but I DO believe that the catalytic converters might actually help somewhat. My CRD is currently feline-free, and running a slighty-higher blend of sulfur fuel than normal right now... And the exhaust makes my eyes burn. It doesn't normally do that, nor does it on pure biodiesel or any blend over 20%. Think about that.

This country produces a MASSIVE amount of both diesel fuel AND biodiesel. Granted, nowhere near enough (yet) to meet the 12-million-gallon-per-day thirst of the nation's diesel engines. BUT, in the last 8 years, we have been producing PLENTY of diesel... And shipping it to EUROPE! It gets worse: There is a BIOFUEL tax credit that we are all aware of: $1 per gallon, when the blend is at least 1% biodiesel. The problem? That means that if an entire TANKER SHIP (call it 1 million gal for easy math) is made to be 1% biodiesel... The cost to the oil company is 10,000 x the price of bio, call it $4, so $40,000... And they get to claim the tax credit on THE WHOLE BOAT and get $1,000,000!!!!

Wait... It still gets worse. They send this ship to Europe with it's "biodiesel" load... And take ANOTHER REBATE from the European government!!! Has this tanker ship of diesel cost the company anything? Not really! The AMERICAN PUBLIC is PAYING THE OIL INDUSTRY to SEND OUR FUEL AWAY, and then paying again in the form of higher prices because of "reduced fuel availability" in the USA!

I realize this doesn't seem to have much to do with the EPA nonsense. But what if the EPA instead pushed for a mandatory 20% biodiesel in US fuel, and got Congress to BLOCK any rebates for ANY fuel leaving the country. How about THAT to reduce new greenhouse emissions? Biofuels aren't polluters, b/c the pollution in a burning plant is confined to the material content OF that plant... And will recycle right back into the next plant. Net-Zero additional pollution. Exactly what the EPA wants.

Threeweight · **Joined:** Mon May 14, 2007 5:57 pm **Posts:** 679

BMW innovates by bringing a clean diesel to the US with better performance than their gasser, better mpg, and a similar price (they make luxury cars, folks) and you guys find an excuse to piss and moan about it? Something tells me that if two naked supermodels showed up at your door with a bottle of $500 scotch, you'd complain that it wasn't Coors Lite!

I can't afford a BMW, but it sure is nice to see that at least a few car companies are investing in new technology.

retmil46 · **Posted:** Sun Nov 23, 2008 3:50 pm

My read is they're pissing and moaning about the urea system, and the asinine government requirement that the vehicle be disabled if the tank isn't refilled.

For that matter, if all the tank has is a level sensor to give the warning light, and the sensors can't tell whether the tank has urea or lime-flavored Kool-Aid in it, if you're out in the boonies and the light comes on just pour some water in the bloody thing and keep driving.

But then they'll probably have it set up such that you have to take it to the dealer, so that they can hook it up to the computer and reset the ECM, otherwise the bloody thing will still go into disable mode regardless of how full the tank is.

And it isn't the cost of the urea that's the kicker - it's the time and money you'd have to waste taking the bloody thing to the dealer, and paying $50 to $100 an hour labor just so some putz can refill a piss jar.

A dealership's dream come true - a car where they can LEGALLY FORCE the owner to bring it to their service department every few months and give them money. :evil:

Threeweight · **Joined:** Mon May 14, 2007 5:57 pm **Posts:** 679

I think the average person who plops $45k down on a new BMW will find a way to live with the hardship of taking their vehicle to the dealer for service every few months. I don't see too many blue haired socialites or country club golfers crawling around under their rigs, service manual in hand, doing their own maintenance on their brand new bimmer.

If the technology actually enters widespread use, you'll likely be able to buy the stuff at your local NAPA. You can buy variants of it at your local agricultural supply store right now.

Clean air rules are a fact of life. Folks are certainly entitled to express their dislike of them. Just a little silly to whine about them as much as some do, when vehicle manufacturers are bringing, cleaner, more efficient, and higher performance diesels to market while still meeting them.

geordi · **Posted:** Sun Nov 23, 2008 9:30 pm

Retmil found exactly what I was pissing and moaning about.

I'm all in favor of compression engines in EVERYTHING, as the fuel is easier to refine, has more energy per gallon, and can be replaced 1:1 with any number of renewable options.

The goals of the EPA are what they should be, but the targets they have chosen (and ignored the real perpetrators who have lobbyists) are stupid. I just learned tonight that the mail-order catalog industry creates as much greenhouse gas as 2 MILLION cars! How many other manufacturing or printing businesses are polluting FAR more than even our CRD engines?

Urea is a good idea... For a FIXED installation like a factory. Not for a low-impact engine like a car. Cars can be run on algae biodiesel instead, and bingo - no added pollution to the air.

warp2diesel · **Posted:** Sun Nov 23, 2008 11:07 pm

who get into public office, provide grants to pseudo-scientists who create problems and not simple solutions and guess what you get, what we have now. What is depressing is that those of us who solve problems to make our living get paid less than those who suck up our tax dollars creating stupid regulations based upon subsidized findings from pseudo-scientists who could never get a job in the private sector solving problems.

I have raved many times about the Boogie Man pollutant Nitrous Oxide that can only turn into Smog under perfect conditions, soon these conditions will only be able to be reproduced in a Computer Model.

jinstall · **Posted:** Mon Nov 24, 2008 2:49 am

Old news, BMW announced this 1st qtr 2008 on the 3er, X5 and the 5er for US. MB has the RL, ML and E klasse. I am still waiting to see the Honda 2.2L

retmil46 · **Posted:** Mon Nov 24, 2008 12:37 pm

jinstall wrote:

Old news, BMW announced this 1st qtr 2008 on the 3er, X5 and the 5er for US. MB has the RL, ML and E klasse. I am still waiting to see the Honda 2.2L

As far as the Honda 2.2L, forget it. They announced a couple weeks ago they've decided to at least delay introduction in the US market until after 2010 - stated reason was they can't meet emissions requirements when the engine is mated to an automatic transmission.

BMW Jumps into US Diesel Market

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