TOSSED OUT THOSE LOUSY ST TIRES

vtdog · **Joined:** Fri Sep 30, 2005 11:27 am **Posts:** 640

I finally changed out my stock ST tires this week. Even though I had previously hydroplaned in the rain and spun the tires on dry pavement I waited until first snow here (NH). We had about 5 inches last week so I went to an unpaved lot. I was stuck in the lot with spinning tires in both 2wd and 4wd (full and part time). It was very embaressing as front wheel drive cars were moving around lot with little problem. In addition on drive to/from lot the rear end was sliding out on many turns.

Without doubt, those STs are the worst tire I have ever had in 40+ years of driving, including when I ran recaps as a teen. The tire designers at goodyear should be flogged and the Jeep buyer should be forced to ride his family around in the car with the STs.

I changed out to Michelin LTX M/S at 245/70/16. They are almost exactly the same diameter and height (less than 1 percent). I have driven with them in heavy rain without problem and without needing to put Jeep in full time as I did with the Sts. They are quiet and have not changed MPG.

oldnavy · **Posted:** Sat Dec 03, 2005 9:17 pm

The day I drove the Liberty off the lot I stopped and aired the ST's up to 38 PSI and have had no problems with poor traction. Two weeks ago the dealership had the CRD in for a TSB and unknown to me the tech dropped the tire pressure to the minium psi listed on the door of 32 psi. Then the wife complained that the CRD "felt funny" when drivig in town, as usual after 32+ years with my ding-bat, she is telling me this while I am real involved in doing something so I tune her out. Yesterday I was driving the CRD because it was raining, I didn't want to get my Magnum dirty, and turned off the rough concrete street to black road with a small hill and had trouble keeping the tires from spinning. Man the CRD was squirrly as the devil and I noticed the rig felt mushy. To make a long story short after bringing the tire pressure back up to 38 PSI and no more slipping and sliding all over the place. Now the ride is lot firmer and more like what the wife wants.

pnorton · **Posted:** Mon Dec 05, 2005 12:18 am

Am I the only one who has not had problems or simply hated the ST tires?Snow, Rain, Moab, etc. with no problems. :?:

Xgecko · **Posted:** Mon Dec 05, 2005 1:04 am

pnorton wrote:

Am I the only one who has not had problems or simply hated the ST tires?Snow, Rain, Moab, etc. with no problems. :?:

no 4000 or so miles on my CRD, Snow today (not much) a bit of gravel road wheeling and I can't say that I've had any issues. Road conditions today were crap but I felt stable all day. I'd love an excuse to buy new tires but as of now I don't have one

RedJeepCRD · **Posted:** Mon Dec 05, 2005 9:01 am

My wife has been complaining about the jeep slipping around on wet and dry roads. I'm going to check to air in the tire but I'm prety good about keeping watch on that. So you used 245/70R16 without a lift? Did they rub any?

Wes

Ricky5 · **Posted:** Mon Dec 05, 2005 9:08 am

I haven't had any issues either. I've had it in the rain, but not a lot of snow as of yet. Give me till tomorrow. Looks like we will have snow then. I've had it going around turns at 70mph in the mountains too. My air pressure is set at about 35psi.

vtdog · **Joined:** Fri Sep 30, 2005 11:27 am **Posts:** 640

No rubbing problems at all. I don't have any lift. I checked the tires using the tire size comparison (http://www.miata.net/garage/tirecalc.html) found on the web. There is less than 1% diff in size.

As for adding air to make tires less slippery. I can't say why it would work as per others. It makes no sense and is counter to traditional belief which is softer tire yields greater surface area=more traction in snow/sand, etc.

Believe me, I would not have spent the money for the new tires if I did not feel totally unsafe with the STs. You can check tire rack.com for survey results, or 1010tires, etc. In fact, the dealer I used told me that he has had many Jeep customers change out the STs. Many put on the "house" brand they sell and have no complaints, but I opted to spend more and hopefully get alot of miles on the Michelins

oldnavy · **Posted:** Mon Dec 05, 2005 8:12 pm

vtdog wrote:

As for adding air to make tires less slippery. I can't say why it would work as per others. It makes no sense and is counter to traditional belief which is softer tire yields greater surface area=more traction in snow/sand, etc.

What makes the tires grab better in sand & snow is the same thing that causes failures at high speed, it's called tire flex. When tires are under inflated on hard pavement the center of the tire cups upward and leaves you running on the outside ribs. When in sand and snow it helps the tires spread and grip. This used to be taught in the military (USA & USMC) and it was heavely stress that after coming out of the sand to air the tires back up. Diesel trucks had pumps to do just that, gassers used a special hose that was incerted into sparkplug hole and engine cranked (normally not started, but have seen it done with engine running) to inflate the tires.

JeepGalPeg · **Posted:** Tue Dec 06, 2005 3:39 pm

I'm also about ready to chunk the ST's. The icing on the cake was when my husband had them do their little "dance" all over the wet pavement the other day.

He originally thought that 245/75-16's might be an option because he was hoping NOT to have to replace the spare tire as well. His thinking is that since the xxx/75-16 part of the equation is the same, then the spare should do in a pinch. (Does that make sense?) However, after comparing several different tire sizes, there's a 4% difference between the 225/75-16's and the 245/75-16's. According to http://www.miata.net/garage/tirecalc.html the 245/70-16's have only a 0.7% difference, so I guess I'll be buying a spare as well.

grywlfbg · **Posted:** Wed Dec 07, 2005 11:38 am

Peg,

If you're ok with your spare being purely for emergency use (ie you're not going to do a 5-tire rotation schedule), the difference in tire size won't be a problem to get you to someplace to replace/repair your other tire.

On my Wrangler I had the stock 30x9.5" and replaced them w/ 31x10.5" when they wore out but left the spare stock. After I picked up a bolt in one of my tires I drove around w/ the stock tire mixed in w/ the 31's for a few days until I could get the other one repaired. I couldn't really tell a difference.

So I wouldn't spend the extra money on a new spare and just do a 4-tire rotation schedule.

JeepGalPeg · **Posted:** Wed Dec 07, 2005 12:29 pm

Thanks, Chris!

That's what we'll do!

Peg

n3qik · **Posted:** Thu Dec 08, 2005 7:57 pm

I have mine aired up to 44 PSI. Happy as a clam with them like this.

Taz · **Posted:** Fri Dec 09, 2005 8:13 am

grywlfbg wrote:

Peg,

If you're ok with your spare being purely for emergency use (ie you're not going to do a 5-tire rotation schedule), the difference in tire size won't be a problem to get you to someplace to replace/repair your other tire.

On my Wrangler I had the stock 30x9.5" and replaced them w/ 31x10.5" when they wore out but left the spare stock. After I picked up a bolt in one of my tires I drove around w/ the stock tire mixed in w/ the 31's for a few days until I could get the other one repaired. I couldn't really tell a difference.

So I wouldn't spend the extra money on a new spare and just do a 4-tire rotation schedule.

It is generally ok to use an odd sized spare, however on a 4x4 you do not want to use 4 wheel drive or low range with an odd sized tire on the vehicle. I also would question if you have the trac loc putting 2 different sized tires on the rear. Different size tires turn at different revs and will cause excessive wear on the drive train and possibly even damage in a short time period. I had this happen to a Dakota when the shop mounted the odd sized spare on it for my wife and she ran it in 4 wheel, nothing broke just lots of bad noises from the transfer case. We ran it in 2 wheel (no noises) until the tire was replaced, When the tire was replaced all the noise went away in 4 wheel. Also some vehicles with ABS will behave badly when there is an odd sized tire on the vehicle, the ABS senses the different wheel revs and kicks it.

Having said all that, I am planning on 245/70/16's and not replacing the spare, I will just drive it in 2 wheel if I ever have to use it.

Guest · **Posted:** Fri Dec 09, 2005 11:37 am

I too still have my stock spare on the back. My tire diameter is a little more out of whack than the 245/70R16 as I have the 255/70R16 Revos that work out to 2.6% oversize.

If it were not for these new tires I dbout I would have made it home last night. We had the nightmare scenario here in Indy last night. Heavy snow fall at 1 to 2 inches per hour starting at 2PM - just before rush hour time. We ended up with 8 inches in 5 hours and we had 3 to 4 foot drifting over my entire driveway. I'm here at work so you know the Revos work well.

It took me 2 hours to go 20 miles to get home and I was one of the few lucky ones. Some people were camped out in the interstate for 8+ hours. My boss let us go at 3:30pm instead of 5pm and that saved me. Every intersection I got to had just had an accident and I barely skated by about a dozen of these before traffic was blocked at each accident site. One was a semi sliding sideways behind me on the interstate that ended up blocking all of I-465 on the west side.

A detailed city street map, my Revos, and the Libby are what got me home.

The Revos really did their job ... :wink:

Oberkanone · **Joined:** Thu Oct 06, 2005 2:34 pm **Posts:** 26

10 inchs of snow and the ST's were fine. I'm north of Indianapolis and the only thing that slowed me down was the cars in front of me.

Guest · **Posted:** Fri Dec 09, 2005 12:04 pm

Oberkanone wrote:

10 inchs of snow and the ST's were fine. I'm north of Indianapolis and the only thing that slowed me down was the cars in front of me.

How far north are you? I had areas where only the drainage ditches along the side of the road were driveable as the streets were totally drifted in ahead and accidents blocked my return behind. Without the Revos I'd still be 10 feet off the access road in a deep ditch next to the airport (just a hare north of I-70, it runs parallel to I-70 westward until 6-points road and beyond to SR-267.

I would think that on road the STs should do well being a narrower tire - they should slice right through it as long as your on pavement...

allscan · **Posted:** Fri Dec 09, 2005 12:48 pm

I drove through 6-7 inches of fresh snow this morning with stock tires. Granted I had it in 4-hi, but I noticed no difference between the Liberty and any other vehicle I've driven in the snow. I'm sure the fact that the ST's are narrow was a contributing factor. On another note, I watched a guy in a Wrangler with a decent lift and nice tires doing donuts on 95 after he flew by me, I was going 40, and the road was slushy. Kind of made me laugh since he probably thought "I have a Jeep what do I have to slow down for?" Oh well everybody has to learn sometime.

LibertyCRD · **Posted:** Fri Dec 09, 2005 4:10 pm

Yup, our evening newscast last night featured a lifted Jeep Wrangler with big tires on it's top in the median. Girl survived though.. I guess some people will never learn... These are not invisible tanks that glide over snow and ice. :roll:

RedJeepCRD · **Posted:** Fri Dec 09, 2005 4:23 pm

Do your 255/70/R16 rub any?

I'm looking at getting new tires soon, just wondering what size to get.

Wes

LibertyCRD · **Posted:** Fri Dec 09, 2005 4:32 pm

Here is what I'm noticing: I have the 225/75s still and I'm running a lift kit. If I drive off road and flex the suspension, my stock tires will gently rub in the rear inner wheel well. And that is with a lift kit! My front tires were gently rubbing the pinch weld before the lift.

So personally, I think the Liberty has all the tire it can take (and retain good flexing qualities off-road) as it is.

If you stay on the road 99% of the time 255/70 will work pretty well. Not perfect, but pretty well. You'll get light rubbing in the front.

If you go off road I have no clue how some of these guys are running tires two sizes bigger without ripping their fender flares off.

OH...and the reason the stock Goodyears suck is because the outer tread has no grooves to allow water/mud/snow to evacuate the tire. All the tread blocks are closed off and too close together. That's why these tires suck, they are awful and they are dangerous. I'm ditching mine as soon as I can afford to.

TOSSED OUT THOSE LOUSY ST TIRES

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