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 Post subject: P0093 LARGE fuel leak!
PostPosted: Tue Jan 06, 2009 10:56 pm 
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This is my mule's latest: Driving back home and it starts losing power - fast. Pull over, turn it off, back on, good to go. Another 1/4 mi does the same thing. No CELs. Then it appears to go into limp mode but still no CEL and not acting quite like the times when I have gone into limp mode.
After futzing with it some more I theorize it may be a clogged fuel filter: If I turn the engine off and then just turn the ignition key "on" my lift pump will actuate for 20 seconds which probably pushes enough fuel forward to get it to run before running low due to the restriction again.

I was preparing to ride my dirtbike through the snow to the stealer for a fuel filter when I looked at it again: This time, a CEL finally lit up: "P0093 Fuel Leakage. Large."
But I don't see any evidence of a fuel leak anywhere.

This is a new one to me!

Ideas?

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2005 CRD Limited:
* 245/70/16 Nokian Vatiiva
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* Custom CCV condensor
* Custom modified thermostat housing w/bleeder valve

2006 CRD Limited (wife's)
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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Jan 06, 2009 11:28 pm 
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P0093 is not a fuel leak( which the ECU has no way to monitor), it is an air leak. If your lift pump is working you don't have an air leak. A plugged fuel filter will also give the same code. You were on the right track with the attempt to change the filter.

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Last edited by nursecosmo on Tue Jan 06, 2009 11:31 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Jan 06, 2009 11:29 pm 
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It is the fuel filter. The fault is set when you're not able to meet the rail pressure setpoint with the pressure control valve at the end of the rail closed and the metering unit on the pump fully open.

Change the filter.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Jan 07, 2009 12:30 am 
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Well done gentlemen, thank you very much. 8)

One thing I have also considered since current unemployment = serious financial problems is to clean the filter to try and squeeze a bit more life out of it. I thought of several possible ways of doing this including use of diesel transfer pump to back flush it with clean fuel.

Or, perhaps there are aftermarket filters?

- Chris

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2005 CRD Limited:
* 245/70/16 Nokian Vatiiva
* Magnaflow
* Kennedy Diesel lift pump
* Custom CCV condensor
* Custom modified thermostat housing w/bleeder valve

2006 CRD Limited (wife's)
* Bone stock


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Jan 07, 2009 12:45 am 
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KeighJeigh wrote:
Well done gentlemen, thank you very much. 8)

One thing I have also considered since current unemployment = serious financial problems is to clean the filter to try and squeeze a bit more life out of it. I thought of several possible ways of doing this including use of diesel transfer pump to back flush it with clean fuel.

Or, perhaps there are aftermarket filters?

- Chris


Been there, done that. There is no possible way which I have come up with that will allow a filter to be reused. A Goldenrod clear filter head unit is about the same price as a replacement Mopar filter and the cartridges themselves are only 5 bucks, but it does not filter down to the same size.

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Manure green 2005 CRD sport4x4, GDE Hot tune, Cat Gut, OE skids, Draw tight hitch, Duramax lift pump, 160K on multiple varieties of fuel, XM radio, Escort live with Redline, fog light mod, GPS, Icom IC7000 all band radio call sign KC9QPF, Grabber AT2s on Soft 8s, FIA grill blanket.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Jan 07, 2009 1:22 am 
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Location: Somewhere between Heaven and Hell... But it is really hot here on Earth...
I have a stanadyne filter head, and the optional glass bowl on the bottom for water drainage... Same thing, the cartridges are about $5 each. You can choose what size to filter down to, 10, 5, or a 2 micron "polishing" level.

Would someone explain to me why such a heavy duty pump as the CP3 is being used with what seems like an overkill filter? Do the other Mopar diesels with the CP3 have the same 2 micron filters?

I seem to remember that my VW with the more sensitive VE pump had a 10 micron filter spec'd by VW engineers, and they are some of the most anal bastages to ever build a car.

Even a 5 micron I could understand... But 2? Why?


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Jan 07, 2009 4:54 am 
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geordi wrote:
I have a stanadyne filter head, and the optional glass bowl on the bottom for water drainage... Same thing, the cartridges are about $5 each. You can choose what size to filter down to, 10, 5, or a 2 micron "polishing" level.

That sounds like it might be a good option.
Can I get something that will just screw on to the current fuel manager in place of the cartridge filter that is there or do I need to replace the whole fuel manager - in which case we have all sorts of sensor and wires etc...

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2005 CRD Limited:
* 245/70/16 Nokian Vatiiva
* Magnaflow
* Kennedy Diesel lift pump
* Custom CCV condensor
* Custom modified thermostat housing w/bleeder valve

2006 CRD Limited (wife's)
* Bone stock


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Jan 07, 2009 8:39 am 
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Location: Somewhere between Heaven and Hell... But it is really hot here on Earth...
The nice thing about the "sensors and wires" at least for the Water-In-Fuel sensor... Is that the screw on the bottom of the filters seems to be somewhat standardized.

I could have put the KJ's WIF sensor into the glass bowl of the Stanadyne if I wanted to while it was installed, but I didn't. I put the factory head back in with a new filter b/c I had to take it into the dealer for other issues... And just didn't want the problem. That's OK, MOPAR decided to CREATE problems by taking away my warranty for some BS reason that I have no control over. :(

Yay freedom! :roll:

I'm not sure what the other connector is on top, but one of the top ones is for the fuel heater. I think that unless you are living above the arctic circle... You can safely live without that one. Granted, I live in an area without snow (hopefully)... But I've been fine with that one unplugged since just after I bought the CRD.

The Stanadyne has all sorts of options for installable heaters or extra lift pumps. It's really a nice modular system, and it will bolt right onto the Mopar studs on the firewall. The only thing it might need are some hose nipples to connect to the existing lines, and 2 plugs. It's designed with 4 connection holes.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Jan 07, 2009 9:06 am 
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Wix - 33647 - should be about $20

http://www.wixfilters.com/filterlookup/index2.asp?Section=1&Make=87&SubMake=&Model=&SubModel=&Engine=11522&Year=2005&TempSection=1&TempMake=87&TempModel=&TempEngine=11522&TempYear=2005

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Jan 07, 2009 10:07 am 
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I had this exact same issue a couple months ago my CAT filter was clogged after >12 mo >12K.

http://www.lostjeeps.com/forum/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?p=378203&highlight=#378203

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Jan 07, 2009 10:07 am 
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If you want to replace the filter head and use quality 2 micron filters, either the Stanadyne or Racor will provide far better quality than the problematic Bosch fuel head. Even with a clogged fuel filter suggesting a simple change out, there are other reasons to replace the entire fuel head. The Mopar fuel filters were tested by Old Navy with input from George Morrison (rip). After testing the fuel with ISO testing, they found far more contamination on the output of the Mopar filter than what existed going in to it. George's take on it was the paper filter was breaking down and adding fiber debris to the fuel, a situation he had seen in his career in the industry when low quality filters were involved.

If the archives are still intact, you can search ON's posts on the subject. It's one of 3 reasons several have chosen to eliminate the OEM Fuel head - 1. Cost of Mopar filters are excessive for the filtering and quality 2, the Bosch fuel head is problematic in it's air seal and the size of the power pins used on the 3rd party fuel heater 3 the filtering is sub par for a high pressure common rail system. It should be 3 to 5 micron absolute.


Since you have time on your hands, here's a member who posted exact instructions on a quality Racor installation, complete with part numbers for everything you need - fuel head, filter size of your choice, 30, 10 or 2 micron, and the replacement WIF sensors and the temp sensor which works with the CRD. You already have the lift pump, all you need for better filtration is a quality fuel manager. Something to keep in mind once you start working again. Good luck.

If you want to keep the CRD longer than 4 or 5 years, 2 to 5 micron filtration is a must.

http://auerbach.ca/kj/racor/

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Jan 07, 2009 12:33 pm 
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Excellent write ups and suggestions - thank you!
This has been bookmarked.

I think I'll go for the Wix for right now, and then a whole new fuel manager & filter system once (if ever?) I find a job.

- Chris

_________________
2005 CRD Limited:
* 245/70/16 Nokian Vatiiva
* Magnaflow
* Kennedy Diesel lift pump
* Custom CCV condensor
* Custom modified thermostat housing w/bleeder valve

2006 CRD Limited (wife's)
* Bone stock


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Jan 07, 2009 2:55 pm 
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KJ, might I make a suggestion?Why not make some side money doing "light trucking",our CRD can tow small loads real good.With a little trailer you could do attic/basement cleanout(and sell others "junk" on ebay),haul wood,(fire or lumber),dump runs for seniors,apaertment moves,or even Foreclosure clean outs.I only say this because I have a good amount of hauling I do with my CRD and Excursion for side money,and it works good for both ends,you get money,and clients save money.If you can think it,you can do it,keep your chin up,and work that lil CRD for some CASH....................H

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Jan 07, 2009 3:00 pm 
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Quote:
I seem to remember that my VW with the more sensitive VE pump had a 10 micron filter spec'd by VW engineers, and they are some of the most anal bastages to ever build a car.

Even a 5 micron I could understand... But 2? Why?


There are some articles (google the subject) explaining why high pressure common rail systems will wear out injectors and pump internals much faster than normal if insufficient filtering is employed.

The VE ran what max pressure? 16K psi iirc. Compared to 23,200 on the CP3, I'd say the CP3 is far more sensitive to small particles. In a Cummins study, they found that particles in the 5 to 7 micron range that passed harmlessly through lower pressure systems, caused accelerated wear in the much tighter tolerances in the 23,200 psi systems.

While the FSM lists a 3 micron filter for the CRD, I think that was the original Racor that was installed in the earlier versions sold overseas. The paper filter in the factory system sold on US models is probably closer to 10 micron nominal, rather than absolute. In plain English, it's a bean counter special, and will likely work for a few years, but not really good enough for a modern common rail system. Iirc, Bosch specifies 5 micron filtering for the CP3 pump and associated injectors. If you look at some of the Bosch Yellow series technical manuals, you'll find a wealth of information about EDC diesel engine management systems, emissions controls and some information posted here recently on NOx formation appears to have been copied from one of those Yellow series manuals.

If you google the ISO fuel tests, you may run across George Morrison's name, who posted frequently on TDI club.com. George identified the problem with dirty fuel in his customers storage tanks causing early injector and pump wear (fleet systems where these costs are enormous) and the need for micron filtration levels and water reducing practices. I read one article that stated that George was instrumental in getting the excellent Cat 2 micron filter built. There were some early efforts by some on tdiclub to get one built, but Cat ended up building it and some early posts on that site, circa 2000 had george, dbw, laundyt(who occasionally posts here) running tests on the CAT, Stanadyne and Racor filters. In general, they found that those 3 brands lived up to their advertised claims, while others did not. It was interesting reading.

Also, Old Navy has several posts on this subject as he was also involved in some of the early TDI club testing. It's fairly informative reading.

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2005 LTD CRD RB1 NAV/Htd Leather seats/Amsoil EA filters
SunCoast Mega Trans & Billet TC/PML pan/Aux cooler
Fuel cooler/Lift Pump/10um Pri/Racor R490 2um Sec Fuel Filters
IronMan Lift/Shocks/Provent/Moog ball joints/ V6 Airbox/Fan/Hayden
Cobalt Boost/EGT/Oil/Trans/Volt gauges/Aeroturbine 2525
Yeti Hot Tune/Odessey 65/Samco's/Michelin Defenders


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Jan 07, 2009 8:20 pm 
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vegiH wrote:
KJ, might I make a suggestion?Why not make some side money doing "light trucking",our CRD can tow small loads real good.With a little trailer you could do attic/basement cleanout(and sell others "junk" on ebay),haul wood,(fire or lumber),dump runs for seniors,apaertment moves,or even Foreclosure clean outs.I only say this because I have a good amount of hauling I do with my CRD and Excursion for side money,and it works good for both ends,you get money,and clients save money.If you can think it,you can do it,keep your chin up,and work that lil CRD for some CASH....................H

Thank you for your kind and thoughtful suggestions! I have about 3 months until we start missing mortgage payments so this may be an option......

_________________
2005 CRD Limited:
* 245/70/16 Nokian Vatiiva
* Magnaflow
* Kennedy Diesel lift pump
* Custom CCV condensor
* Custom modified thermostat housing w/bleeder valve

2006 CRD Limited (wife's)
* Bone stock


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Jan 07, 2009 8:22 pm 
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KeighJeigh wrote:
Excellent write ups and suggestions - thank you!
This has been bookmarked.

I think I'll go for the Wix for right now, and then a whole new fuel manager & filter system once (if ever?) I find a job.

- Chris


You can get the WIX at NAPA :D

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 Post subject: O'Reilly has WIX also
PostPosted: Wed Jan 07, 2009 9:24 pm 
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Joe Romas wrote:
KeighJeigh wrote:
Excellent write ups and suggestions - thank you!
This has been bookmarked.

I think I'll go for the Wix for right now, and then a whole new fuel manager & filter system once (if ever?) I find a job.

- Chris


You can get the WIX at NAPA :D


My local NAPA dealer is trying to out do the Jeep dealer on high prices where I am. I just stop at an O'Reilly when I will be in a town for a couple days and order what I need.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Jan 08, 2009 1:09 am 
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Joe Romas wrote:
KeighJeigh wrote:
Excellent write ups and suggestions - thank you!
This has been bookmarked.
I think I'll go for the Wix for right now, and then a whole new fuel manager & filter system once (if ever?) I find a job.
- Chris


You can get the WIX at NAPA :D


Wish I had read this earlier. I just special ordered one from a local parts store after looking up the closest supplier in my area. $36
For some reason the website did not mention NAPA - even though as I recall now I think I bought a WIX oil filter at NAPA last summer....hmmmm.

_________________
2005 CRD Limited:
* 245/70/16 Nokian Vatiiva
* Magnaflow
* Kennedy Diesel lift pump
* Custom CCV condensor
* Custom modified thermostat housing w/bleeder valve

2006 CRD Limited (wife's)
* Bone stock


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Jan 08, 2009 1:21 am 
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Joe Romas wrote:
KeighJeigh wrote:
Excellent write ups and suggestions - thank you!
This has been bookmarked.
I think I'll go for the Wix for right now, and then a whole new fuel manager & filter system once (if ever?) I find a job.
- Chris


You can get the WIX at NAPA :D


Wish I had read this earlier! I just special ordered one from a local parts store after looking up the closest supplier in my area. $36 but I haven't paid for it yet so if I can find one cheaper I will. Luckily, they were close enough that I could drive 25 MPH to get there without angering too many people behind me. I can drive the mule if it don't accelerate very quickly and don't go past 1/8-1/4 throttle max. If I do, it will quit - in which case I turn off the ignition, turn back on and wait for 5 seconds for the lift pump to push some more fuel through, then start it back up and go. I have it down pretty good and can do it without pulling over. I'd ride the motorbike to fetch the filter if I could but we are now in the midst of record flooding - including 1 1/2 feet deep flowing fast across the bottom of our driveway - so I'd rather ride the mule if I can!

For some reason the WIX website did not mention NAPA - even though as I recall now I bought a WIX oil filter at NAPA last summer....hmmmm.

- Chris

_________________
2005 CRD Limited:
* 245/70/16 Nokian Vatiiva
* Magnaflow
* Kennedy Diesel lift pump
* Custom CCV condensor
* Custom modified thermostat housing w/bleeder valve

2006 CRD Limited (wife's)
* Bone stock


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