Say Arrivederci to Chrysler

vtdog · **Joined:** Fri Sep 30, 2005 11:27 am **Posts:** 640

Maybe Fiat will hear jeep say "aiutilo" (help).

http://www.usatoday.com/money/autos/200 ... oner_N.htm

Personally, I can't understand why Ford or GM does not just buy out Jeep as it is the ONLY part of Chrysler that is worth keeping. GM could sell them instead of Hummers or Ford could sell them at the Lincoln stores to keep those dealers from folding.

GM and Ford need another brand selling in the US like Rush Limbaugh needs another cheeseburger.

litton · **Posted:** Mon Mar 30, 2009 4:25 pm

I'm not exactly convinced of that. Awhile back I read an article where Cerberus stated that they could keep Chrysler afloat as long as it took. Of course an influx of cash would be great but if GM folds there is a bunch of market share floating around and people will aways need cars. In the meantime older ones are being kept running that will need to be replaced in the not to distant future. This will be especially true in the truck market where the foreign competition is limited to non-existent and Dodge is a well respected line.

Chrysler is in a rather unique position being a privately held company and is not beholden to stock holders.

Personally, I'm not counting on the eminent demise of Chrysler but it make look a lot different.

retmil46 · **Posted:** Mon Mar 30, 2009 4:26 pm

Too late now - govt has decided no sell off of Jeep or other parts, ALL of Chrysler is to be merged with Fiat.

From his speech this morning, sounds more like a Soviet style planned economy. Russians and Chinese are scratching their heads in wonderment, going "Dude, we tried govt run economies, they don't work, why do you think we finally went free market?"

litton · **Posted:** Mon Mar 30, 2009 4:31 pm

retmil46 wrote:

Too late now - govt has decided no sell off of Jeep or other parts, ALL of Chrysler is to be merged with Fiat.

From his speech this morning, sounds more like a Soviet style planned economy. Russians and Chinese are scratching their heads in wonderment, going "Dude, we tried govt run economies, they don't work, why do you think we finally went free market?"

It's not the governments decision. They can make it continginent on recieving aid $$$, but they can not force a private company to do anything. What is a bit baffling is that the deal with Fiat is not a merger, merely a technical alliance.

kdlewis1975 · **Posted:** Mon Mar 30, 2009 4:57 pm

...and on top of that, because of Chrysler already receiving money from the government, Fiat can't have a majority stake.

fastRob · **Posted:** Tue Mar 31, 2009 9:20 pm

One more time,
The Money Is All Gone.
These fools do not realize this yet. Except of course the enlightened LOST KJ forum readers.
Chrysler is bankrupt and worse.
The USA is a bankrupt, corrupt, former industrial power that is in a depression.
20% unemployment and rising!!! TRILLIONS of dollars printed this year and it is only April (tomorrow).
The funny part is that most people are in denial or stupid. (Not Us!)
Like a junkie looking for another fix, stealing and lying have become the truth.
We even elected a uniquely American phenomenon; an ethnic con man to lead us to civil war.
I need shades, the future is looking so bright, that and a diesel JK.

kcfoxie · **Joined:** Thu Mar 06, 2008 1:27 am **Posts:** 113

I'm going to reserve most of my opinion regarding what's going on but I will say that since 2001 I've said we're going to see a civil war in this decade, but not because of the new guy, because of the old one we let run this place into the ground.

That aside, I certainly expect to see a larger portion of Diesels in the Chrylers line up, and this could be what saves their booty. FIAT is no stranger to diesel design, assuming they get to pull the strings on the development end and Chrysler just keeps selling the same brands to people (some are loyal, I certainly am not) ... who is going to complain about a 40+ MPG 300? Or more 28-30MPG Jeeps? Just please, for the love of goth, give us lift pumps, 300ft/lb, and torque converters that aren't a POS.

retmil46 · **Posted:** Wed Apr 01, 2009 11:43 am

As far as more diesels, dream on. Doesn't meet the new admin's and EPA's definition of a "clean" vehicle. They're all about pushing electrics and hybrids - and part of the deal with the bailout is they'll be leaning on the OEM's as to what vehicles they'll be producing.

Besides that, CARB is already making noises that now the OEM's have managed to meet 2010 diesel emissions, they're going to ratchet it up again and make even 2010 diesels non-compliant in CA - to the point that the OEM's would have to sell two compliant vehicles to make up for selling one diesel. Those idiots are even talking about banning black or dark-painted cars - because thay absorb more heat from the sun, you have to run the A/C more, and that causes the engine to put out more emissions.

As far as opinions on an upcoming civil war - I'll be making my stand in the Republic of Texas. :wink:

truckbouy2 · **Posted:** Wed Apr 01, 2009 1:12 pm

Boy Ret, I hope she don't go the same way as the Alamo on your stand...We like you, better keep a one way Greyhound pass in your secret wallet compartment just in case...... :shock:

kcfoxie · **Joined:** Thu Mar 06, 2008 1:27 am **Posts:** 113

retmil46 wrote:

As far as more diesels, dream on. Doesn't meet the new admin's and EPA's definition of a "clean" vehicle. They're all about pushing electrics and hybrids - and part of the deal with the bailout is they'll be leaning on the OEM's as to what vehicles they'll be producing.

Besides that, CARB is already making noises that now the OEM's have managed to meet 2010 diesel emissions, they're going to ratchet it up again and make even 2010 diesels non-compliant in CA - to the point that the OEM's would have to sell two compliant vehicles to make up for selling one diesel. Those idiots are even talking about banning black or dark-painted cars - because thay absorb more heat from the sun, you have to run the A/C more, and that causes the engine to put out more emissions.

As far as opinions on an upcoming civil war - I'll be making my stand in the Republic of Texas. :wink:

It wouldn't be the first time that GM has told California to go screw themselves. They won in court that only the Fed can mandate what emissions requirements are and this administration appears to be more about rapid deployment of vehicles the reduce imported oil consumption, you only get that with a diesel -- as Mazda and Honda have both gone on record as stating. Waiting on the Honda (the Acura didn't come to pass, despite literature appearing at local dealers about the 2.2L CR engine) and the Mazda "diesel commitment" seems rather promising: http://money.cnn.com/2009/03/26/news/in ... /index.htm

ANY diesel is a clean diesel with the exhaust, even these old 2.8L VM motors. All you need is a dealer only sold additive (OMG! cash cow!) added every x number of miles to the exhaust, al la MB/Audi bluetech. It's not that hard, not only that, the processes can't be locked down in patents [heavily discussed at tdiclub] and thus anyone can derrive their own "bluetech" formula to meet emissions standards.

Seems that Diesels sold very well in the two states (cali and I think mass) where you had to buy a car with over 7500 miles on the odometer. Plus if people in Cali see that Oregon and Arizona people are getting better economy wiht their GM Diesel (wow, that's a scary thought actually, flash backs to being age 7) than their Toyota hybrid, they're going to not vote for people who actually believe in these rediculous laws.

Besides california pushes for more and more electric and yet they keep stealing power from Oregon because they can't make enough of it. Eventually, they're going to brown out for good. What will happen then?

If your right your standing alone. I've already got my route of escape planned.

retmil46 · **Posted:** Wed Apr 01, 2009 2:17 pm

truckbouy2 wrote:

Boy Ret, I hope she don't go the same way as the Alamo on your stand...We like you, better keep a one way Greyhound pass in your secret wallet compartment just in case...... :shock:

I think if Texas did decide to go it's own way again, the boys in Washington would have to be diplomatic about it - remember what happened last year when the pipelines to the East Coast got shut down due to the hurricane? Shut a few valves at the border, and half the U.S. goes without fuel. And if Louisiana decided to follow their lead, they'd REALLY be screwed - practically all the Gulf output cut off. And if Texas also decided to become a member of OPEC, well, it could get even nastier. :shock:

Wouldn't be the first time my family has went against the established order. They were already well established in this country around the Kings Mountain NC area at the time of the Revolution. Do you remember the movie "Gettysburg" made by Ted Turner about 15 years ago? In one scene, Joshuah Chamberlain led a Union charge downhill to repulse the Confederate assualt on Little Round Top, but got brought up short by a Confederate colonel pointing a revolver at his head - which turned out to be empty. I'll give you three guesses what that colonel's last name was. :wink:

Guess I best watch what I say, don't want the black helicopters coming to take me away in the night. :lol:

danoid · **Posted:** Wed Apr 01, 2009 2:45 pm

Don't hold your breath waiting for more light duty diesels from Chrysler. They've tried twice and each time it was a 'market failure.'

2005-2006 KJ CRD
10,000 units planned,
no advertising,
(?) 12,000 units sold.
CONCLUSION - US doesn't want diesels.

2007-2008 WK 3.0L Diesel
unknown number of units planned / sold,
no advertising,
engine/transmission purchased from former overlords, who despite the obscene margins they charge don't wan't the Mercedes brand 'diluted'
actual transaction price increased $3000 over sticker due to incentive gerrymandering
CONCLUSION - US doesn't want diesels.

They've tried twice already and NOTHING will convince their MBA minds otherwise. Trust me I've presented data...

Silverdiesel · **Posted:** Wed Apr 01, 2009 3:34 pm

When I give my diesel speal to people- they ALWAYS say " if diesels are so good even better then hypebryds then why doesn't everyone drive one/"
This is the point we are at.
Euro V is coming to Europe which mimicks our tier 2 bin 1 standard and I doubt sales will decrease out there cause the people know of the economy and performance.

Yet here we remain "Niche" --!

Joe Romas · **Posted:** Thu Apr 02, 2009 7:18 am

The best thing that could happen is The Big One moving California 50 miles westward taking their lady in Washington with them leaving nothing for FEMA to help with :wink:

Then the rest of the country could get back on tract :lol:

They keep making regulations we all end up having to conform to :roll:

BVCRD · **Posted:** Thu Apr 02, 2009 9:08 am

Joe Romas wrote:

The best thing that could happen is The Big One moving California 50 miles westward taking their lady in Washington with them leaving nothing for FEMA to help with :wink:

Then the rest of the country could get back on tract :lol:

They keep making regulations we all end up having to conform to :roll:

Oh my God, truer words were never spoken.

warp2diesel · **Posted:** Thu Apr 02, 2009 9:39 am

and Mid Level Chrysler Exects were bitching about the over abundance of MBAs they had and how the Bean Counters wanted to move Engineering to India. I suggested to move Accounting (Including Bean Counters) to India instead. The loved the Idea but weren't high enough up the chain of command.

Too bad :twisted:

retmil46 · **Posted:** Thu Apr 02, 2009 9:49 am

Joe Romas wrote:

They keep making regulations we all end up having to conform to :roll:

And the rest of the country ends up paying for. Here of late, every time they come out with another inane STATE mandate, they end up going to the EPA for FEDERAL money to pay for implementing it. :evil:

That's probably one reason they keep coming up with all these odd ball regulations - they know someone else will always be paying the bill - no consequences. no incentive to change their behavior.

Joe Romas · **Posted:** Thu Apr 02, 2009 12:34 pm

They have a article that states the future of jeep in a 40 mpg world may lie in a pint sized off road wehicle already in Europe. It's a Fiat Panda Cross and is available ONLY in a 1.3L diesel version and it gets "nearly" 40 mpg. It goes on to say "A petite Jeep is one of six Fiat Based vehicles that may be made in an North American Chrysler plant. It will carry Chrysler, Dodge or Jeep badges. This depends on getting government loans and the alliance goes ahead. If so look for it in 2011.

geordi · **Posted:** Thu Apr 02, 2009 1:29 pm

BS. They will come up with some reason that doesn't make sense that it can't possibly work in the USA, and it will balloon into a 4000 lb monster with an anemic V6 coupled to a 50 watt electric motor and they will crow about how great of a "hybrid" it is... While it manages a meager 16mpg. Then they will continue to insist that 40mpg is an impossible number.

Think I'm kidding? Ask why our CRDs are HEAVIER than a 97 Jeep Grand Cherokee that has twice the cylinders, another 18 inches of body length, 6 inches more width, and 2-3 inches of height?

I was reading in a book yesterday (totally unrelated to cars) about building a sound-proof recording studio in a semi-trailer. They suggested using 1/4 thick sheets of LEAD for soundproofing.
Considering how heavy the CRD Liberty is, and how much quieter inside it is than my 97 Jeep Grand Cherokee... Hmm. Makes ya wonder what the body is lined with.

BVCRD · **Posted:** Thu Apr 02, 2009 1:38 pm

Because they made the GC as cheap as they could?

Say Arrivederci to Chrysler

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