Also leaking injector(s)

galatron · **Posted:** Thu Mar 22, 2012 12:16 pm

Well after driving my newly reassembled CRD yesterday, I popped the hood to discover fuel in the wells of my number two and four injectors.
I used new o-rings and copper washers. and I torqued the bolts down just the same as the one and three... I cleaned up the well with a wire brush and swabbed it out with barrel cloth.
Guess I'll get some more of those copper washers and o-rings.

galatron · **Posted:** Thu Mar 22, 2012 12:26 pm

anyone know about this particular part?
05093922AA injector plate?
I have the bolt and the fork, but not the plate, could the previous servicer have lost it?
I just spoke with turbobill, and he confirmed that there is a part there under the fork, doggone it those dealer service boys!
Now for the 5 day wait while my order is fulfilled...

msilbernagel · **Posted:** Thu Mar 22, 2012 2:04 pm

The plate is actually the size of a hearing-aid battery!

Since the engine cover is aluminum, the plate acts as a steel contact point for the pivot point (bottom of the 'Y', opposite the bolt hole from the injector) of the crow's foot that holds the injector tightly. It's recessed into the aluminum, almost flush, and is maybe 1/4" in dia and the thickness of a nickel? (From memory, it's approx). It's job is to not yield as the aluminum would when the injector bolt is torqued, or over time as heat and pressure tend to do with aluminum.

Easy to overlook if things are dirty. If it were missing, though, there would be a hole that would be harder to miss.

All mine were pretty snug and wouldn't pop out unassisted but I did use a magnet to pull one just to be sure because like you I had briefly thought I'd missed or dropped them during disassembly.

Mark

galatron wrote:

anyone know about this particular part?
05093922AA injector plate?
I have the bolt and the fork, but not the plate, could the previous servicer have lost it?
I just spoke with turbobill, and he confirmed that there is a part there under the fork, doggone it those dealer service boys!
Now for the 5 day wait while my order is fulfilled...

galatron · **Posted:** Mon Apr 02, 2012 11:01 pm

well carp.
I got the "hearing aids", rubber orings, and copper washers in. Jeep ran like it had new life in it for a short time, then when I got home this evening I popped the hood and it still has fuel around the number two and four injectors... much worse around the number four. I don't know what to do... Even went out and bought a nice new torque wrench. I'm positive that they're sealed properly, I ran shot gun cloth round the inside of that well it was shiny clean... even have pictures to prove it!
Why aren't these injectors sealing properly? should I put a shim under the fork?
Thanks again fellas.
Only a few things left on this beast,, the injectors, front OME springs and shocks, the condensor, and something else... then I'll be happy for a while..

msilbernagel · **Posted:** Tue Apr 03, 2012 12:07 am

Did you use anti-seize compound on the injectors when re-installing?

Can you tell if the fuel is coming up from around the injector, or if the fuel feed tube fitting is leaking at the collar?

One diagnostic I've heard for finding the leak is a piece of cardboard, you can hold it around the injejctor or fitting and 'see' where the fuel is coming from; it darkens the cardboard to give you a visual clue..

Be sure and stay clear of the leak - that stuff can tattoo you but good, or slice off parts! :shock:

Granahan378 · **Posted:** Tue Apr 03, 2012 6:08 pm

I would also be checking the injector line that attaches to the injector. Make sure that its tight, and if i remember right where it attaches to the injector can come lose as well so check and ensure you are tight there also. Yes its frustrating but its coming from some where.

retmil46 · **Posted:** Thu Apr 05, 2012 2:32 am

Galatron, was looking at your sig line....

Let me get this straight - you live in Austin TX, where it's been 100F or better for 3 months in a row the last 3 summers (I know, I was living in San Antonio)...

and you actually removed your mechanical fan, a move that even the fanboys at GDE admitted was a cold climate/winter weather mod at best....

If the above is accurate, then I've just one question.....

ARE YOU FRIGGING NUTS???!!!

galatron · **Posted:** Thu Apr 05, 2012 10:39 am

I am currently running with no mechanical fan at the moment, once temperatures start to warm up, I'll probably do one of two things: reinstall the fan or go with an electrical fan. - most likely I'll just reinstall the fan. See, I'm experimenting with mileage.

I'm still getting fuel past the copper washers on the injectors, I placed cardboard around the injector, no spray, it is defintly coming from the blowby.

That said, I'm thinking of my options:
1. get more copper washers.
2. place something on the bolt side of the fork to increase downward pressure.
3. put a thin film of that high temperature copper sealant on both sides of the copper washer.
4. put a thin film of antiseize to act as a simular agent as #3.

I put new copper washers on injectors 1 and 3 using the same technique as the other two, cleaning the hole with shotrags and swabs. they're not leaking...

remwines · **Posted:** Thu Apr 05, 2012 12:25 pm

I am in the process of replacing the injector o-ring and copper seals right now and just waiting for the injector puller. The only thing leaking past my seals was compressed gasses/exhaust. There was nothing in the pocket or on the injector but dry soot. I sprayed a fair amount of penetrating oil into each injector pocket. When I re-stated the engine, the penetrating oil spewed out like being shot from a spray gun. Just a thought, the fuel may be leaking past the small o-rings on the fuel return line. The fuel return is low pressure so it is not going to spray if it's a small leak. The fuel may just be weeping past the o-rings and there could be a tiny amount running down the injectors into the pockets. When I initially attempted to pull my injectors and removed the fuel return line, the tip of the #4 plastic tee snapped off just above the o-ring and was stuck in the injector. I didn't realize the little tip was broken off until I reassembled everything and started the engine. The fuel ran down the injector into the pocket. You may be able to replace the o-rings. Be careful not to break off the tip while doing so. That plastic is thin and likely brittle. The new fuel return line ("Fuel Pipe", 05093923AA) was over $50 from Chrysler and will take over a week on special order.

galatron · **Posted:** Thu Apr 05, 2012 12:37 pm

remwines, interesting idea. thanks, i'll give it a look over when I get home tonight

ATXKJ · **Posted:** Thu Apr 05, 2012 8:29 pm

FYI - on the Fan - running around Austin in 100+ temps for 3 months,
with full AC and traffic Gridlock - temp gauge never went over 1/2
and I'm about 90% sure the fan never turned on.

if you're not towing - I don't think it's a big deal

(I did go ahead and put in a Hayden clutch and the plastic fan - at the end of the summer
but that's because I intend to go back to Colorado mountain passes
- the only place the temp gauge has ever gone up)

galatron · **Posted:** Thu Apr 05, 2012 9:14 pm

Well bummer. It is not the plastic or o-ring. It for sure is the blow by. Tomorrow after lunch ill pull the offendending injectors and use the copper based sealant to stop the leakage. It is the only thing to do now I guess...

remwines · **Posted:** Fri Apr 06, 2012 12:34 am

[anyone know about this particular part?
05093922AA injector plate?]

galatron; I'm sure glad you mentioned something about the injector plates. I pulled the injector bolts and forks, and sure enough, no plates!! They must have been left out when the dealer did some warranty head work. The plate recesses are dimpled from the fork tips digging in, thus loosing proper torque pressure. This is likely what caused my injector seal failure.

galatron, do me a favor and measure the thickness of an injector plate when it comes in. In lieu of waiting for a special order from Chrysler, I'll just make the plates so I can get it back together.

I hope you find your fuel leak. I'm a bit confussed though. If there is leakage past the copper injector seals, the leak should occur primarily during combustion and only hot exhaust gasses and soot would be present. I'm no expert on these VM engines, so correct me if I've missed something.

galatron · **Posted:** Fri Apr 06, 2012 12:38 am

Hey bud. I've got the plates if you needed them. Pm me your address and ill send them on their way.. turn out I had the plates in the end. I was making an order anyway and they were cheap enough...

remwines · **Posted:** Fri Apr 06, 2012 11:41 pm

Thanks for the offer. I sent you a PM

galatron · **Posted:** Sat Apr 07, 2012 12:07 am

On their way...

laplaya · **Posted:** Sat Apr 07, 2012 4:47 pm

I was glad to spot this thread as I have a blowing by type situation occurring on one of my injectors.
There is a sooty deposit in the injector well with no sign of fuel.
It sounds like an exhaust leak but is coming from the 2nd injector somewhere.
Interestingly enough this injector was replaced under warranty by the dealer when the P/O had the jeep.
I am just waiting for the manual to download to see what the process is for R&R of an injector.
There are things I would rather be doing today

AL

geordi · **Posted:** Sat Apr 07, 2012 6:05 pm

I like the idea of filling the injector well with some cleaner and see if it gets blown out when the engine is running - That is a nice easy way of testing whether you have leakage or not. My CRD has been argumentative on starting lately, but runs great. I'm not really interested in tearing everything down unless I absolutely have to, this seems like a fast way to check without taking anything off.

cool tip.

laplaya · **Posted:** Sat Apr 07, 2012 8:59 pm

I was able to remove the offending injector. I put a small socket in the well as a fulcrum and used a brake adjustment tool to pry the injector up using the grooves for the hold down clamp.
I saw no sign of an o-ring anywhere, ( could it have melted?)copper washer had blow by for sure.
There were some heavy deposits of what looked like carbon but may well have been baked o-ring.
What a pain in the rear to clean the mating surface down there. I ended up making a vacuum attachment from 3/8 copper tube with a small round wire brush taped to the end of it. Seemed to do a reasonable job.
Is the o-ring a special Hi temp one or just standard rubber?
I used what I had which was standard rubber, also my copper washers were thinner than the stock one so I used 3.
Back in one piece and running good.
Blow by is gone and no fuel leaks as of yet.
So I just need to know about the o-ring. Anybody?

MrMopar64 · **Posted:** Sun Apr 08, 2012 11:32 pm

The O-ring is there only to keep some crud from getting down into the cylinder head between the bore and the injector.
It's preferred if it's there, but if you don't want it you can leave it out. It should be just a normal O-ring, you can carry the injector into your hardware store and get a fitting O-ring. Put some white grease on it before you put the injector back in.

The important thing in this whole interface is the copper washer and the sealing to the cylinder head. With the head cleaned up fit a new copper washer to the injector and you should be good to go.

Also leaking injector(s)

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