At last !

Tomone · **Joined:** Wed Aug 31, 2005 9:19 am **Posts:** 11

They are starting to show up, in fact even the Grand Cherokee's are starting to show up used.

I am looking at an '06 Liberty this Saturday, just over 15,000 miles but it is also just over $17,000. Seems high, but I really don't know.
Been following the forums for a couple of years and it seems that the vast majority are happy, and would buy again ; right?

Check this out, several dealers (probably a dozen units) have '07 Grand Cherokee's, some with 90 miles on them. The story is this, DC bought them back because they were filled and run with gas-not sure if I believe it. Price still in the upper twenties!

Even if I had the cash I wouldn't get one, I have always liked the Liberty-just hope no issues have raised their ugly heads....

Sir Sam · **Posted:** Tue Mar 10, 2009 3:25 pm

Yes, used WK CRD's are out there, still pricey though. Too pricey for me(for now).

gmctd · **Posted:** Tue Mar 10, 2009 3:25 pm

Only two posts since Aug '05 - dude, you must be really........no, I mean really patient - ennyhoo, see my Haystack thread in CRD TECH for solutions'n'resolutions:
http://www.lostjeeps.com/forum/phpBB3/vie ... hp?t=30576

Boiler · **Posted:** Tue Mar 10, 2009 3:29 pm

Prices for used vehicles are going through the roof. This is about the best time for new buyers and the worst time for used buyers. It doesn't mean buying new has more value than buying used, but the gap is narrowing quickly.

Tomone · **Joined:** Wed Aug 31, 2005 9:19 am **Posts:** 11

Thank you all for the replies/info, you have to be patient when in Massachusetts. There are no new diesel registrations-passenger cars-unless the vehicle has been titled and has over 7,500 miles on it, unless it meets Cali emissions which only the 'blue tec' would.

Its absurd, we had three VW TDI's, last was an '04 Jetta wagon, and you, until VW meets the standards, cannot buy one new. Now the new ones are a bit off the consistent 57 (fifty seven) mpg we got with all of them but still, nuts that you can't buy a small diesel new.

Medium duty is about to change also, thankfully we go one of the last pre emissions 6.0 Ford Powerstrokes in our rv. Its in an E450 chasis and is a fantastic engine, 16 mpg is very doable-doesn't sound like much compared to the Liberty, but remember its a motorhome-about twice the mileage of a V10!

Which brings me to the reason for this post. I found the posts on the oil analysis members had done and its got me a bit concerned. The last four we had done on our 6.0, roughly 3-5k on the oil had numbers lower than those I see for the Liberty-mostly alot lower.

For instance the last four times the Powerstroke's Iron was 24, copper 2.8, lead 1.0 and chrom 2.6 with nearly zero change in the samples.

Thoughts appreciated as I really want to leave some cash on that '07 on Saturday.

Lastly, is there any concern with regard to engine parts?, I have seen two figures for total 2.8 sales; 11,000/18,000-either way it isn't alot of units but I am comforting myself with the knowledge that Europe is lousy with this engine.

So at worst, parts would be a few weeks away-please everyone say -right-.

onthehunt · **Posted:** Tue Mar 10, 2009 10:19 pm

You have a non egr diesel = lower wear metals. Just the way it is. I would buy the Grand Cherokee CRD(non dpf). Just personal preference.

Diggerfreek · **Posted:** Tue Mar 10, 2009 10:44 pm

I wouldn't worry about trying to compare the oil samples from one engine make to another.. as was pointed out, the power stroke is a non egr vs the liberty which has one... Just make sure you watch you samples for fuel dilution, signs of coolant, and sudden spikes in metal PPM

vegiH · **Posted:** Tue Mar 10, 2009 10:54 pm

Tom thats to much money,I'm in NH and on craigslist there is 4 in NE for less money than that.I bought mine for $15K,converted to run on WVO.................If ya need help looking let me know......................I know my way around the net....H

nursecosmo · **Posted:** Wed Mar 11, 2009 12:37 am

whoops misread.

gmctd · **Posted:** Wed Mar 11, 2009 1:00 am

Correct me if I'm wrong, but fairly certain the 6.0 Powerstroke has EGR and CCV, just like us - Ford even offers Provent as authorized dealer-install option - however, a working truck does not pollute like a daily commuter, which most, if not all, of the KJ's are - much more detritus in the oil resulting from interminable stop'n'go'n'stop-again traffic jams as opposed to working\hiway miles - anyway, all that new junk in the tailpipe is meant to scrub the exhaust effluent way downstream from the exhaust valve, which does nothing for crankcase emissions\pollution, being sorta upstream of the exhaust valve...n'est ci pas?

onthehunt · **Posted:** Wed Mar 11, 2009 3:22 am

I believe he said it was a pre-emissions power stroke.

ribbon · **Posted:** Wed Mar 11, 2009 9:14 am

i got mine for 13,000 not even 2 months ago. got it with 24k miles. 17000 is high

Tomone · **Joined:** Wed Aug 31, 2005 9:19 am **Posts:** 11

Thanks everyone.

vegiH, any advice/info would be much appreciated-the price does seem high, even for a relatively low mileage '06-please pm me with anything you have.

I wasn't clear when I said a 'pre-emissions' Powerstroke, sorry. Ours is a very late model '07, just before they discontinued the 6.0 and went to the 6.4 AND just before they re-introduced the 6.0 (but with the re-gen feature for emissions) because they discovered the 6.4 would NOT fit into the E series which was a diesel segment Ford owned. So while our engine has an egr, it does not have a particulate filter or the flame thrower feature, re-gen.

As I am not all that technically savy about diesel engines I can't comment as to whether or not our application, rv-approx 14,400 gvw, puts more or less load on the engine than a commuter. We do nearly always tow a light enclosed aluminum trailer-Rance Renegade, probably 3k lbs-200lbs tongue (motorcycle, BMW 1100 GS, bicycles, misc camping stuff) and our travels are usually to the mountains on the very scenic roads. So, my guess is that we are in the severe category and although I drive slowly the engine does spend a fair amount of time in moderate boost conditions. Which is why the uoa's here have got my attention, not a negative comment, just an observation.

For instance: an 87k analysis on one of our TDI's showed an iron of 7.0-silver of 0-chrom of 0.7-copper of 0.5 dilution nil.

Here are the numbers for our first uoa on the Ford, with whatever the factory dino fill was, roughly 4,800 miles, a brand new engine:
Iron 39, silver 0.0,aluminum 3.8,chromium 2.7,copper 19.5, magnesium 12.9, sodium 9.9,nickel 1.4, lead 4.4,silicon 56, tin 0.4, titanium 0.0, boron 29, barium 11.4, molybdenum 4.8, vanadium 0.0, zinc 1324, manganese 1.7,calcium 2592, phosphorus 1230. No shearing of oil, no glcol in sample, trace dilution. petane insolubles trace.

Since the values I see for the 2.8 are consistent I think it is fair to say that this engine wears differently from those diesels I am familiar with-a Sprinter I5 MB, VW TDI-three editions of the 90hp, and now a 6.0 Ford.

Again, not a criticism but from my perspective an interesting observation.

Does anyone have a uoa from a GC with the 3.0 for comparison?, I believe a member here has just acquired a GC after having owned a Liberty. I have some questions and am wondering if he/she could contact me via a pm.

Again, thank you all for the posts-I really want the Liberty.

Boiler · **Posted:** Wed Mar 11, 2009 10:33 am

Seriously, prices for used vehicles have jumped since Jan. I bet that vehicle's wholesale price has increased $1000 since the first of the year at a minimum.

gmctd · **Posted:** Wed Mar 11, 2009 12:11 pm

Your immense RV seriously loads the engine the instant it begins moving - all your other tag-along paraphenalia seriously adds to the original loading over the long periods of daily operation.

Our KJ's immense loading usually consists of the driver - additional paraphenalia usually consists of a large cup of grog and several donuts\kolaches\bagels\whatevers, which seriously contributes to the driver's gross weight loading over a period of time, but that's a story for the dietary forums, eh...............

Idling, especially extended idling in DRIVE with ac burning, and low rpm running, as in commuting, creates more internal pollution than does loaded running - additionally, the KJ is then parked for hours every day at the end of the in commute, stewing in that acidic\chemical mix in the crankcase, with same scenario at the end of the day at the back-home end of the daily commute - added would be the double-ended daily foray in the quest for lunch (further increasing gross driver-loading)

'Nuther words, while both apple-based, we are comparing apple sauce to apple butter - one, clear and tasty - the other, dark and tasty - the devil is in the detail

nursecosmo · **Posted:** Wed Mar 11, 2009 1:14 pm

Tomone wrote:

For instance: an 87k analysis on one of our TDI's showed an iron of 7.0-silver of 0-chrom of 0.7-copper of 0.5 dilution nil.

Here are the numbers for our first uoa on the Ford, with whatever the factory dino fill was, roughly 4,800 miles, a brand new engine:
Iron 39, silver 0.0,aluminum 3.8,chromium 2.7,copper 19.5, magnesium 12.9, sodium 9.9,nickel 1.4, lead 4.4,silicon 56, tin 0.4, titanium 0.0, boron 29, barium 11.4, molybdenum 4.8, vanadium 0.0, zinc 1324, manganese 1.7,calcium 2592, phosphorus 1230. No shearing of oil, no glcol in sample, trace dilution. petane insolubles trace.

Since the values I see for the 2.8 are consistent I think it is fair to say that this engine wears differently from those diesels I am familiar with-a Sprinter I5 MB, VW TDI-three editions of the 90hp, and now a 6.0 Ford.

Again, not a criticism but from my perspective an interesting observation.

One of the reasons for the difference in the UOA numbers is that the Jetta has already been broken in at 87k. The ford is not even close to being broken in until it hits 20k-30k or more. The numbers won't start coming down until you approach higher mileage. Our commuter Libertys tend to become broken in around 50k when the UOAs even out.

linewarbr · **Posted:** Wed Mar 11, 2009 1:30 pm

Mine was $11,995 for 06 Sport with 25,000 miles back in early September. (When diesel was still over $4.00/ gal). With diesel down in price again and so much demand for used, I'd say offer $14.5K and walk out if they won't accept. It's your money, remember.

Joe Romas · **Posted:** Wed Mar 11, 2009 2:40 pm

Tomone.

I've owned two versions of TDI's but never did an uoa on them or my crd. Both tdi's started getting good mileage figures around 20k miles. My crd originally would spray oil out the filler cap if it were removed while running. But now at 23k it no longer does that indicating to me the rings are finally seating in :lol:

Now maybe the mileage will start to get better :wink:

Tomone · **Joined:** Wed Aug 31, 2005 9:19 am **Posts:** 11

ribbon/linewarbr, thanks for the pricing info; I guess 17k is way high!

Joe, the 90 hp TDI was a remarkable engine but with ours the mileage new was the mileage period, 62mpg was our best! but the uoa numbers hardly changed at all from new to to the last analysis.

Maybe the 2.8 is alot tighter, that would explain the high wear metals I see in nearly all of the reports that were posted and it would also be the reason for increasing miles per gallon.

What was the fuel consumption with yours new and how about now, most importantly how do you check the numbers-by filling to a visual level in the neck?

vegiH · **Posted:** Sat Mar 14, 2009 9:46 am

I don't know about new,but now I get 26-30MPG.I know this is accurate because I only have a 5 gallon diesel tank (underbody),which usaully gets 137-150 miles between fillings.My main tank is for WVO so the lil tank is easy to monitor,this is with the SEGR,Edge trail jammer,and "free" flowing exhaust.with these mods that should be average.................H

At last !

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