CRD threw a rod -- cause under investigation

Ken49 · **Posted:** Mon Nov 10, 2008 11:20 pm

Stopped at the local Jeep dealership for their $100 CRD oil change -- with the "23-point" inspection ( just to be sure everything was ready for winter). Later that afternoon (about 150 miles down the road), the engine began to make a funny, clanking sound that got louder. As I was pulling off the turnpike, there was a "thunk" sound, the engine died and I coasted to a somewhat safe stopping place.

While I worried that the oil filter might not have been on tight, the dipstick was down only about half a quart (probably the amount that came through the hole in the block). Ugh! This is the first real problem I've had in 87,000 miles and don't know what could have caused it.

Also bought a full tank of fuel that day from one of the two local stations that where I've been buying all of my fuel -- and, yes, when I got home, I checked the pump receipt and I did buy diesel. I also checked the dealer's oil change receipt and it says I was charged for the high-priced stuff (though I didn't actually watch to see what kind of oil they really used).

I really like my CRD and want to get it fixed (but not if this sort of stuff is likely to happen again).

BlackLibertyCRD · **Posted:** Mon Nov 10, 2008 11:43 pm

I don't know what to say other this is the first I heard of this happening in the lower end ever. Someone here had a valve drop on fairly new vehicle and resulted in destroyed lower end also. Keep us informed, please.

Wobbly · **Posted:** Tue Nov 11, 2008 1:50 am

One scenario is that the engine was started without oil after the old oil was removed. Oil was then added after bearing damage had occurred to cover up the mistake. Is there any way to determine if a CEL code was thrown and then reset?

MrMopar64 · **Posted:** Tue Nov 11, 2008 10:36 pm

Can you take and post/send some pictures of the damage and/or resulting parts that are now outside the engine?

I've seen a lot of dumb things done to this engine and it keep on ticking so what was done must've been bad. If there was low oil pressure at one point and/or the dealer started it without oil, it would've set a code but they likely would've cleared it. A new engine would cost probably $3500-4000 dollars, maybe more. If you need one, I might be able to put you in contact with the right people quickly if the dealer says it'll take forever.

Ken49 · **Posted:** Tue Nov 11, 2008 11:23 pm

Could have /should have taken some picutres (but I wasn't thinking too clearly at the time). The CRD is at a Jeep dealer in OH, and I'm back home in WV. I did arrange for oil analysis and disel fuel contamination samples to be taken (but don't have the results yet).
The Chrysler warranty expired at 70,000, but the CarMax warranty is still in effect (provided there's no "contaminated fluids" problems). The dealer's informal quote for a new engine is $8k (plus another $2k in labor). CarMax probably wouldn't buy a brand new engine, but would want to go with something rebuilt/used. I fear that the OH Jeep dealer will balk at installing something other than original parts, so I still may need to find another place for the repairs. (Should the problem be traceable to the WV dealer who serviced my Jeep, then they might opt to transfer the vehicle here and do their own work locally.)
In all, it's quite a mess. This CRD had only 7,000 miles on it when I bought it from CarMax in early 2006. I opted for their extend warranty because I didn't know if it was a repossession of if there had been other problems. (I've always bought used cars, and then taken good care of them -- putting at least another 300,000 more miles on my last two Hondas).
I'll be sure to get some photos when I get back to Ohio (maybe this Friday). Thanks for the reminder.

warp2diesel · **Posted:** Tue Nov 11, 2008 11:28 pm

1) Stripped rod bolt or nut (I had that happen on my old Perkins, if it is this, it is yours)
2) Stretched out rod cap, with snapped rod bolt. Bad Luck

Items that may get the dealer shop insurance to pay up.

3) Break in rod between Journal and Piston, this can be from the rod journal seizing non the crank, rare.
4) Discolored crank journal, look for bluing or brown coloring, running with out oil.
5) Check the other crank journals and rod bearings for damage, blue or brown coloring indicates over heating due to lack of lubrication such as starting engine with out oil.
6) Have the oil analyzed, they can tell if it is the required oil.

Good luck!

moto-scoot · **Posted:** Sun Nov 16, 2008 2:50 am

OK finally serviced my front diff.
removed skid plate & discovered oil galley plug in the front of oil pan??
make sure this hasent been removed........ it runs straight to oil filter mount.
just a thought.

Ken49 · **Posted:** Mon Nov 24, 2008 12:22 am

CarMax wanted a “partial teardown” of the engine before processing my extended warranty claim. Three days after their mechanic inspected the bearings, my claim was denied because the engine lacked lubrication. (Had kind of thought that when it died three weeks ago.) So, I’m off the local Jeep dealer who had changed the oil 150 miles before the car died. Will let you know what their expert thinks of the photos (which I'm trying to attach, but can't seem to).

BlackLibertyCRD · **Posted:** Mon Nov 24, 2008 10:11 am

I would get a lawyer because your local dealer did about $10,000 worth injury to you. One time I got an oil change while I wait at a local ford dealer to my ford pick up. The service writer came out to the waiting room and told me that my truck had no oil pressure. I knew they had started the engine without oil and parked the truck out in the parking lot. I told him I wanted to speak to the service manager and my keys. I went out to the parking lot with the service manager pulled the dipstick showed him no oil and told him I wanted a new engine. Of course they refused to replace the engine. So I slammed the hood shut, locked the doors and called a tow truck to another dealer. They replaced the rod and main bearings and the orginal dealer had to pay for extended warrenty to 100,000 miles on that engine.

I also got rental vehicle reimbustment.

UFO · **Posted:** Mon Nov 24, 2008 3:29 pm

I hope this is not OT, but I noticed after changing the oil and filter this weekend, and previous oil changes I've done, that it takes a minute or more to get the oil pressure light to turn off. This seems problematic, and if the engine is put under ANY load before the filter gets full of oil, you could easily get engine damage due to lack of lubrication. He||, I'm worried about idling it, but I cannot seem to put any oil in the filter before installing it, the filter seems as if won't take any, and whatever doesn't get into the element drains on the ground when the filter tips.

warp2diesel · **Posted:** Mon Nov 24, 2008 10:13 pm

When we change oil, we start the engine in park and wait for the oil light to go out. In some dealerships, as soon as the engine starts, slam it into Reverse, floor it, slam it in drive and drive into the parking lot and see if you can make it before the oil light goes out. OH-$h!T I for got to install the oil filter and add oil, drive it back in and wait for the other tech to get out of the ay with the engine running.
I hope this puts things into perspective.

Crank out as many cars as you can to max your paycheck :!:

tjkj2002 · **Posted:** Mon Nov 24, 2008 10:34 pm

Why do all of you CRD guys(pootie back to you) blame a mechanic for any small fault? How about buying a non-exotic vehicle that anyone besides a MIT grad can understand.It could be the fault of the oil change,but only a small chance since your not going to run 150 miles without oil in any engine,sorry not going to happen so I doubt the oil change was the problem.If no visible leaks where found then that discloses that the oil change was not at fault since you could not run a engine for that long without oil.I keep seeing threads in here about your intercooler and CAC hoses full of oil,better be checking in those components for the missing engine oil.

Like I said again if now visible leaks of oil found on the engine and the fact that it ran for at least 150 miles does not hold the dealer responsible,it may have been just the time for that engine to let go or lack of maintance.You gotta stop blaming mechanics for every little thing,and by the way 99% of the dealerships have a single(or a few) guys soley doing oil changes and they get paid by the hour,no need to rush,a tech will not get the run of the mill oil change unless it's a trade in but that goes with a detailed inspection to get it ready for the lot.

BlackLibertyCRD · **Posted:** Mon Nov 24, 2008 10:43 pm

tjkl2002 look one and three post up. It's jiffy lube at it worst and it happens at dealerships too.

warp2diesel · **Posted:** Mon Nov 24, 2008 11:02 pm

Failure Analysis is sound investigation practice. A bad or stupid mechanic can not hide from it anymore than a rapist can hide from DNA evidence.

Do it and you will know the truth.

dieselenthusiast · **Posted:** Tue Nov 25, 2008 1:07 am

I have an "excellent" engine ready for you if you need one.

Wobbly · **Posted:** Tue Nov 25, 2008 1:29 am

tjkj2002 wrote:

.....It could be the fault of the oil change,but only a small chance since your not going to run 150 miles without oil in any engine,sorry not going to happen so I doubt the oil change was the problem.If no visible leaks where found then that discloses that the oil change was not at fault since you could not run a engine for that long without oil.....

The car left the dealership with oil in it. That doesn't preclude the possibility that it may have been started and run briefly with no oil at the dealership. It might also have been grossly overfilled. The damage may also just be coincidental with dealer service.

Joe Romas · **Posted:** Tue Nov 25, 2008 8:44 am

tjkj2002

First I'm sorry I expect my NP242 transfer case to work properly :oops:

Secondly, I once took a company car I drove to a dealer for an oil change. Later when I checked the oil I found the oil cap was riding on a cross member

I guess it's somehow my fault :cry:

As far as our CRD's requiring a MIT grad to repair. They're no worse then a new gasoline equipted model, just different.

Now go fix that 242 transfer case some unknowing customer bought

tjkj2002 · **Posted:** Tue Nov 25, 2008 8:54 am

Wobbly wrote:

tjkj2002 wrote:

.....It could be the fault of the oil change,but only a small chance since your not going to run 150 miles without oil in any engine,sorry not going to happen so I doubt the oil change was the problem.If no visible leaks where found then that discloses that the oil change was not at fault since you could not run a engine for that long without oil.....

The car left the dealership with oil in it. That doesn't preclude the possibility that it may have been started and run briefly with no oil at the dealership. It might also have been grossly overfilled. The damage may also just be coincidental with dealer service.

Everytime your vehicle sits for more then a few hours you start it with "no oil",at least no oil pressure,and don't forget when "you" do the oil change it is started with no oil,and that seams to do no harm when you do it so how is it different when a dealership does the same thing?

ATXKJ · **Posted:** Tue Nov 25, 2008 11:07 am

tjkj2002 wrote:

Everytime your vehicle sits for more then a few hours you start it with "no oil",at least no oil pressure,and don't forget when "you" do the oil change it is started with no oil,and that seams to do no harm when you do it so how is it different when a dealership does the same thing?

actually about 80-90% of the wear on an engine occurs between the time the key is turned and the oil reaches the bearings - once the oil is there - there's virtually no wear.
So if you have a situation where the engine was run dry even for a minute or two - then you've destroyed the crankshaft bearings.
once the bearing is destroyed it's a fairly quick for steel to steel contact to overheat and damage the rod which breaks and goes though the side of the block.

Although when that initial damage occurred would be the question, but the timing of oil change/150 mile drive/ dead engine - implies at the oil change something went wrong

(unless your oil pickup dropped out of your oil pump - but hey that's a Chevy thing)

Oh yeah - and CRD folks blame the techs because Jeep Techs cause a lot of problems - due to the non trivial detail that they were never trained for diesels - 1 hour videos don't count.
and the MIT grads I know don't change their own oil.
in fact most of our maintenance techs - don't even like the idea of any Engineer MIT or not, getting close to any machine at all - they lock up and hide the tool boxes

Threeweight · **Joined:** Mon May 14, 2007 5:57 pm **Posts:** 679

Ken49 wrote:

CarMax wanted a “partial teardown” of the engine before processing my extended warranty claim. Three days after their mechanic inspected the bearings, my claim was denied because the engine lacked lubrication. (Had kind of thought that when it died three weeks ago.) So, I’m off the local Jeep dealer who had changed the oil 150 miles before the car died. Will let you know what their expert thinks of the photos (which I'm trying to attach, but can't seem to).

Any updates?

CRD threw a rod -- cause under investigation

Who is online