Died 5 Times Within 10 Miles!

retmil46 · **Posted:** Tue Dec 20, 2005 1:01 am

Well, this is rather disturbing. 5 times tonight on the last 10 miles driving home this beast would suddenly stumble and then just die.

I'd pull off to the side of the road, turn everything off, wait a couple of minutes, then try starting up again. the beast would start right up as normal, and i would start off again.

After the 3rd or 4th time, I finally tumbled to the fact that as long as I managed to stay below 2000 RPM, it would keep running. The 5th time happened when going up hill and the jerk in front of me slowed down, I dropped into a lower gear, I had to try and accelerate uphill, it went above 2000 RPM, stumbled and died.

I watched the tach the rest of the way home, accelerating gradually to get up to highway speed. When I turned onto my dead end road, I tried a little experiment. I tried gradually accelerating and raising the RPM towards 2000. As I got to 2000 or a little above, it started to stumble and jerk, I immediately let off the pedal, it recovered and continued running normally. I continued home for the last mile, thankfully down hill and 35 MPH speed limit.

I just filled up the tank yesterday afternoon, it was down to 1/8th and did a complete fillup. By the trip odometer, I'd driven roughly 50 miles on this tank when the first shutoff occurred. No warning lights whatsoever.

My thinking is I've gotten ahold of a bad batch of diesel, and that I've got a clogged fuel filter. No warning light for fuel/water separator, so I believe it's just flat out clogged.

And I don't think it's the fuel I just put in there. It's B20 from a station I've used before with no problems. I think it was the previous tank of fuel. Last two tanks I'd tried a tank of Shell, and the last tank was from BP Amoco. i wanted to see how their regular diesel would do, for the times I would be unable to make the trip to the stations that sell B20. Shell did okay, but this last tank of BP Amoco was awful, fuel mileage dropped to 20 MPG, only got 365 miles going down to 1/8th tank.

Any other ideas besides a clogged fuel filter?

Darn, 4 days before I was supposed to drive down to Texas for Christmas! Guess it's a good thing it happened now, instead of out on the plains of Texas or in the middle of the Blue Ridge.

greiswig · **Posted:** Tue Dec 20, 2005 2:04 am

Sorry to hear that. Without a CEL, the fuel filter is what I would suspect first, too. Although the fuel demand shouldn't map as directly to the engine RPM as what you seem to describe: I'd expect it to die at lower RPM's but under higher load. I.e., I am assuming that the fuel delivery will be greater for an engine under high load at 1900 RPM than under lower load at 2100 RPM. Might be another test?

Oberkanone · **Joined:** Thu Oct 06, 2005 2:34 pm **Posts:** 26

Had a situation where engine started running rough and then died. Occurred multiple times and after waiting a couple of minutes and then restarting the engine it would run fine. No CEL, however, there were codes stored indicating multi cylinder misfire.
Computer was re-flashed and CRD has been running fine since, with the exception my mpg is now 5 mpg less.

This seems to be different than your situation, however, I suspect the EGR is the underlying problem with my CRD.

retmil46 · **Posted:** Tue Dec 20, 2005 2:33 am

Well, one small silver lining - the service manual CD I ordered from DC arrived today. Sure enough, the symptoms described under clogged or restricted low pressure fuel lines and clogged fuel filter match what's happened.

From what I read in the manual, the high pressure pump sucks on the fuel tank thru the low pressure lines and the fuel filter.

The test for a clogged fuel filter involves hooking a vacuum gauge between the fuel filter and the suction of the high pressure pump. When you rev the engine to 1500 RPM, if the vacuum goes above 10" H2O, you have a clogged fuel filter.

Another possible cause is air getting sucked into the low pressure lines at loose connections, but the symptoms described aren't as close a match as above.

oldnavy · **Posted:** Tue Dec 20, 2005 7:37 am

Bad fuel at a station isn't always water, it can be actual trash from bottom of tank (rust, dirt, etc) due to either the service station just had tank filled and the crap hasn't settled as yet. If it was smoking excessivly it could be the station is dumping used motor oil into their tank. However if the station doesn't sell enough fuel fast enough and they still have summer fuel you could be jelling, but I doubt that's the problem. My guess is you filled up from a underground tank shortly after it was filled and all the dirt and trash was stirred up and pumped into your tank.

One thing I try not to do is fill up within 24 hrs of the service station recieving fuel, and I never buy fuel at a station with underground tanks because of ease of water getting into fuel. Stations with underground tanks often dump used motor oil into those tanks to get rid of it instead of pay to have it removed. Would you believe there's no federal law against and most states also have no law against oil dumped into diesel tank.

My bet if it is fuel related and that is what it sounds like to me is a clogged filter from trash or the fuel is trying to jell. Add about 16 oz of Power Service (white bottle) or Power Service 911 (red bottle) to fuel and see what happens. If the problem goes away it is jelling fuel and you bought summer fuel from a station with a very low turn over and that is a no, no when diesel is concerned because it is also likely to have micro orginisms growing and/or water problems.

Ranger1 · **Joined:** Mon Oct 17, 2005 7:40 pm **Posts:** 1137

Sounds like clogged fuel filter.... assuming you have the latest ECM flash updates, it sounds like fuel starvation.
I'd try opening the water drain on the bottom of the fuel filter and drain a quart into a clean can. I did this on mine at 7500 miles and while there wasn't any visible water, there was some black small debris. After draining, I used the primer pump and bled it by opening the top bleed valve and purged the air out until clear fuel came out (about 20 pumps). Started right up with no dry pump issues.

If the drained fuel doesn't show anything, it still might be clogged inside the filter pleats anyway. A new fuel filter is $35.00 and would be an easy replacement. It would certainly eliminate the fuel system in one quick change if you don't have a lot of time to check it out.

I bought one from the dealer before I took a long road trip, just in case.

Reggie · **Posted:** Tue Dec 20, 2005 10:38 am

retmil46 wrote:

Darn, 4 days before I was supposed to drive down to Texas for Christmas! Guess it's a good thing it happened now, instead of out on the plains of Texas or in the middle of the Blue Ridge.

What part of Texas are you going to?

retmil46 · **Posted:** Tue Dec 20, 2005 11:31 am

oldnavy wrote:

My bet if it is fuel related and that is what it sounds like to me is a clogged filter from trash or the fuel is trying to jell. Add about 16 oz of Power Service (white bottle) or Power Service 911 (red bottle) to fuel and see what happens. If the problem goes away it is jelling fuel and you bought summer fuel from a station with a very low turn over and that is a no, no when diesel is concerned because it is also likely to have micro orginisms growing and/or water problems.

I've been adding 16 oz PS White and 1/2 oz BioKleen at every fillup. I do have 2 bottles of 911. But I don't think it's fuel gelling. One of the other symptoms listed is slow cranking. Yesterday when i went to work, outside temp 50 F, it took about twice as long as normal for it to crank over. Last night leaving work, temps were well above freezing, it cranked right up, I let it idle for 5 minutes waiting for all the other idiots to get out of the parking lot, then drove it 10 miles at highway speed with no problems until i slowed down for a curve at the bottom of a hill, and when i tried to accelerate, once it got above 2000 RPM it suddenly stuttered a couple of times and died for the first time. Fuel recirc should have had that beast warmed up by then.

another item of note from the service manual - there's an electric fuel heater in the fuel filter mounting head.

Bonehead · **Posted:** Tue Dec 20, 2005 11:45 am

I'm only using 6-8oz of PS white and drive in temps in the single digits with no problem, so I don't see geling being the problem

oldnavy · **Posted:** Tue Dec 20, 2005 11:47 am

Yup know about the heater in the fuel filter head, but didn't know about your weather or temp's. The heater would do nothing if it had already jelled in the lines and tank except let you have a stop and go situation. So it looks as if the gelling is not a problem, then I would guess it's a fuel filter being clogged. However this could be a computer problem, have you some way to check for codes? Even a clogged filter on these I have been told will through a code before it strands you.

retmil46 · **Posted:** Tue Dec 20, 2005 12:05 pm

Well, I ain't messing around with it. There's a dealer less than 10 miles away, thankfully along roads that are 45 mph or less. I'm going to take it in and let them go over it, check for codes as well. It did occur to me that when it cut off like that, it probably threw a few codes, even without the CEL.

retmil46 · **Posted:** Tue Dec 20, 2005 1:28 pm

Well, it's getting towed to the dealer. I started it up and made it 20 feet out the driveway, up to about 15 MPH, and it cut off again. This time when I restarted it, it threw a CEL.

Called my friend in Texas, and he said that on the Dodge Cummins, the mechanics had told him one of the first indications of a clogged fuel filter was a drop in gas mileage. Check that, I lost 5 MPG on that BP crap. And the beast smoked like a locomotive when you got on it.

Kinda glad I got the extended warranty and free roadside assistance now. Dealer service dept already has the paperwork in progress, and talked with my assigned rep to tell him everything that had happened, since I'll be at work this afternoon.

retmil46 · **Posted:** Tue Dec 20, 2005 1:37 pm

Reggie wrote:

retmil46 wrote:

Darn, 4 days before I was supposed to drive down to Texas for Christmas! Guess it's a good thing it happened now, instead of out on the plains of Texas or in the middle of the Blue Ridge.

What part of Texas are you going to?

A small town called Lockhart, about 30 miles south of Austin.

oldnavy · **Posted:** Tue Dec 20, 2005 1:45 pm

Let us know how it turns out. My money is on the fuel filter clogged. If it is have them drain the tank and check the fuel for contamanation by dirt, water, heavy oil or all three. The station will be responsable for the repairs, the auto mfg is not responsible for any problems caused by bad fuel and it is not covered by warranty. If that what it is, you need to report it to them and the state agency that is responsible for fuel regulation in the state. Been there and done that several times, only with gassers, never saw a diesel with water in fuel, while working for Chrysler dealership as service manager. Water contaminated fuel is probably more common in gasoline cars & trucks because diesel owners seem to be more aware of the problems cause by bad fuel then auto owners, that and the fact that there are a lot more gas cars then diesel trucks on the road.

Ranger1 · **Joined:** Mon Oct 17, 2005 7:40 pm **Posts:** 1137

"And the beast smoked like a locomotive when you got on it."

This is the part that doesn't sound like a clogged fuel filter. This is what happened to mine when the egr valve went out. Didn't you already replace the egr?

retmil46 · **Posted:** Wed Dec 21, 2005 11:53 am

Tow finally came after I was already at work, about 10 after 2 yesterday. My mother said the guy couldn't believe it was a diesel, he had to pop the hood and check it out! :lol:

Got a voicemail from the service rep, it arrived at the dealership about 3:30, said at the latest they would get to it first thing this morning. I'm going to take Walt's advice and ask them to get a fuel sample if it is the fuel filter, and tell them which gas station it was, so they can have some words with them.

Also going to pick up one or two spare filters when I go down there, and have them show me the correct way to change one out and what tools are required. My luck, it'd happen again on my trip to Texas when I'm out in the middle of nowhere and out of cell phone range, unable to call for assistance.

oldnavy · **Posted:** Wed Dec 21, 2005 4:18 pm

Hope they find the problem today and get you back on the road quick. If the filter is full of water or trash, be sure they drain the tank and flush the lines or it will happen again.

Man I hate to say it but I have never carried a spare filter with me, but I always used high volume diesel truck stops when traveling without problems. I have never been stranded from bad fuel, probably by following some simple rules.

1. never buy fuel while the storage tanks are being filled or shortly after.

2. never by fuel from small local full service station where they change oil in vehicles and/or sell small volume of diesel.

3. never buy fuel from station with under ground tanks, unless it's a have to thing or a high volume dealer like a large big rig truck stop.

wenied · **Joined:** Wed Dec 21, 2005 4:01 pm **Posts:** 107

oldnavy....you guys have fuel stations with tanks above ground? Every station I've every been to my entire life has had underground tanks...just curious

jeeplikens · **Posted:** Wed Dec 21, 2005 4:44 pm

Man, I'm glad I'm reading about the CRD since I was thinking about getting one when my gas powered KJ lease is up. Sorry guys but a brand new car should not be acting like a farm tractor that's been stored in the back 40 and being started for the first time in 8 months. Ones got to question if owning one is worth it if you got to add this, add that, plug it in just to get it started and keep it running. And here I was thinking great strides were made in diesels over the years. Seems like nothing has changed. Also sounds sorta like my snow blower at during the 1st snowfall. :wink:

Living in the Artic? Understandable. Living in Michigan? No way.

oldnavy · **Posted:** Wed Dec 21, 2005 4:47 pm

New fed reg's make's it almost to expensive to do underground tanks for any fuel in last few years. In metro areas where there is no room for above tanks, then they have to jump through the hoops aand pay through the nose to put them underground. Most stations here have above ground tanks if built in the last 10 years, with one or two exceptions where local city restrictions would not allow above ground tanks.

The reason for above ground tanks is they can have spill pans under them and be inspected for leaks, and have less possiblity of water contamination of the fuel. I think there is a final cutoff date for even having an underground tank in about another 10 or 15 years.

One of the biggest problem from underground for the end user (us) is they are so easy to dump used motor oil, antifreese and even pestasides into, not to mention water getting into the fuel when the tanks develops a hole or from rain runoff. Ask you local service manager how often they have someone car (gasser) in the shop due to water in the fuel. The sad part is the service station that sells the fuel is responsible by law for the damage to you car, but most people don't know that and just pay the bill. Same applys to a tow truck, they are responsible for any damage they do when hooking up to towing your vehicle.

Died 5 Times Within 10 Miles!

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