LOST JEEPS :: View topic - New national standards to cut emissions and increase mileage

I realize that government regulations grate on most people (I live in NH and our state motto is 'live free or die"), but the reason socialism or libertarianism does not work is that people are greedy aholes and will work for their own interest to the detriment of others.

Those of us old enough to remember what either our major rivers looked like before the clean water act and what our air smelled like before the impostion of clean air regulations understand that very minor controls have improved our lives.

The 'wiggle out' is 'light duty' trucks. All it takes is a few suspension tweaks and a KJ could be rated at 8800# GVW with a 2000# tow rating. Bingo! The KJ is now a heavy duty truck and doesn't count.

definitions:

(Gross Vehicle Weight) GVW = weight of vehicle + passengers + cargo
(Gross Combined Weight) GCW = GVW + trailer capacity

Current GCW is 10,500#. This is what the cooling system, engine, trans, axle, etc. have to withstand.
Current GVW is 5600# ish. New springs, shocks, tires, wheels and that can get raised easily.

So now a KJ sized truck will be 'heavy duty' with a 2000# trailer rating. But 'wink wink' it will really tow 5000#...

At least that's what I would do. But we've already discussed the fact that I'm not in charge where I work...

Author:	dieselenthusiast [ Tue May 19, 2009 5:17 pm ]
Post subject:	New national standards to cut emissions and increase mileage
"Under the new vehicle standards, U.S. passenger vehicles and light trucks must average 35.5 miles per gallon (6.62 litres/100km) by 2016."

Author:	nursecosmo [ Tue May 19, 2009 5:27 pm ]
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Link please.

Author:	dieselenthusiast [ Tue May 19, 2009 5:28 pm ]
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nursecosmo wrote: Link please. http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20090519/bs_ ... _emissions

Author:	nursecosmo [ Tue May 19, 2009 5:32 pm ]
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Thanks.

Author:	linewarbr [ Tue May 19, 2009 6:07 pm ]
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Diesel is the only answer, unless the new administration is going to buy everyone a Prius. But wait, the Prius doesn't get 35.5 mpg on the highway, does it? I seem to recall something about the Jetta TDI getting 58 mpg in a recent test though. . . .nahhh, couldn't be. I forgot - diesel is BAD.

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Author:	ATXKJ [ Tue May 19, 2009 8:39 pm ]
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The new Prius is rated 48/51 and they have extra battery packs that can kick the intown to over 100.

Author:	CRD Joe [ Tue May 19, 2009 9:26 pm ]
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With this Marxist administration and this new ruling you can FORGET ever getting anymore diesel powered cars here in the US. @$#%s!

Author:	danoid [ Tue May 19, 2009 9:27 pm ]
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The 'wiggle out' is 'light duty' trucks. All it takes is a few suspension tweaks and a KJ could be rated at 8800# GVW with a 2000# tow rating. Bingo! The KJ is now a heavy duty truck and doesn't count. definitions: (Gross Vehicle Weight) GVW = weight of vehicle + passengers + cargo (Gross Combined Weight) GCW = GVW + trailer capacity Current GCW is 10,500#. This is what the cooling system, engine, trans, axle, etc. have to withstand. Current GVW is 5600# ish. New springs, shocks, tires, wheels and that can get raised easily. So now a KJ sized truck will be 'heavy duty' with a 2000# trailer rating. But 'wink wink' it will really tow 5000#... At least that's what I would do. But we've already discussed the fact that I'm not in charge where I work...

Author:	geordi [ Tue May 19, 2009 11:14 pm ]
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Pfft. Dan, I've already proven that the Euro tow rating should also be the USA tow rating, except that idiot Americans don't know how to properly weigh or size or load a trailer to get to that maximum safely. I pulled a 6840 lb generator and the KJ hauled it without any problems at all. Pulling a 4000 lb enclosed 6x12 box felt a LOT heavier than the genset, and an EMPTY 7.5x20 (about 2600lbs) was the worst yet, I couldn't get the KJ above 65 without it wanting to dump the OD, which caused the temp to shoot up. So I kept it locked up and the temps stayed normal at 65mph. Point? It isn't the weight, it's the air resistance. The KJ will never pull that 7.5x20 again, that is going behind my RV with the 454 gas engine from now on. Yea, I know... Gas - Patooie! With the Load Range E tires and the fact that I've already asked my little 4 cylinders to pull over 11,000 lbs and they were up to the task... I'd say that we are VERY close to a "medium duty" and then we could tell the EPA where to shove it. Hmm, somehow I don't think they would be interested in re-rating our little tanks.

Author:	AndySRT [ Tue May 19, 2009 11:29 pm ]
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all i have to say is look at what the new EPA diesel laws did to the cost of a semi ect a few years ago . 1300 dollars try about 5 to 10 times that. i will be holding onto the CRD for quite a while longer. 500 + thousand miles here we come.

Author:	kskj [ Tue May 19, 2009 11:44 pm ]
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So are we going to foot the bill so the car companys can afford to make these small efficent cars that nobody wants to buy? Or are they just trying to force ford to do what they want since they don't own a share of them?

Author:	Glend [ Wed May 20, 2009 12:53 am ]
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I would be fairly sure that these new regulations will only apply to new vehicles after a certain date. Your CRDs should be safe from the crusher, although I see in Germany they are now paying a scrapage incentive of $1000 (equivalent Marks) to get older cars off the road - you buy a new efficient one and you trade in an old one you get the incentive payment. Of course California (the Administrations outsourced EPA test lab) is now starting to work on new even more rigorus standards - and the ink wasn't dry on this latest set. If you can get a diesel past California regs your be all right.

Author:	vtdog [ Wed May 20, 2009 2:06 pm ]
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I have seen many posts on this topic (evil EPA,etc) and am the first to admit that a considerable number of regs (especially relating to diesel) seem to be counterproductive, or just plain stupid. However, having said that I also understand that the EPA regs have, in total, actually been GOOD for the country. One only has to take a breath, or see/smell the tap water in a place like Jakarta, Mumbai, or Shanghai to understand how much healthier our lives in the US have become because of EPA regs. I realize that government regulations grate on most people (I live in NH and our state motto is 'live free or die"), but the reason socialism or libertarianism does not work is that people are greedy aholes and will work for their own interest to the detriment of others. So, I do accept the stupidity of many EPA regs because, in general, they are there for the betterment of all. Just my 2cents

Author:	wolcott [ Wed May 20, 2009 2:17 pm ]
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The government has a problem since they have 3 mandates for cars. They want safe cars, high fuel mileage cars, and cars with low emissions. The problem is that with present technology, they can get 2 of the 3, but that is it. Diesel might be a good compromise, and with bluetech type emission controls, it might possibly work.

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Author:	bugnout [ Wed May 20, 2009 4:45 pm ]
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vtdog wrote: I realize that government regulations grate on most people (I live in NH and our state motto is 'live free or die"), but the reason socialism or libertarianism does not work is that people are greedy aholes and will work for their own interest to the detriment of others. Socialists would welcome, even celebrate, governments role in the regulation of all things... for that is the role of government. Libertarians would abhor the overstepping of government in its attempt to regulate those things that its not chartered to regulate.. for its only role is that for which is is specifically charted. Not criticizing, just don't understand how they ended up in the same sentence. I've never seen anybody relate Socialism and Libertarianism together like you did. I never thought they had anything in common.

Author:	kjfishman [ Wed May 20, 2009 5:01 pm ]
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And if we don't go along with this downsizing they will raise the gas tax to force us into submission. Taxes are a powerful tool to change how people behave. Let you your representatives know that the public is not behind this legislation. Come next election if our so called representatives are still doing what they want not what we want vote them out! The silent majority needs to speak out! ----------------

Author:	vtdog [ Wed May 20, 2009 6:13 pm ]
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Without trying to hijack this thread: Socailism and Libertarianism are two sides of the same coin. Socialists try to regulate everything by government action. People hate that type of control (think collective farms in the old soviet union) especially when leaders of the country get perks not enjoyd by the populace. Socialism does not work because people (workers) have no incentive to work productively as their labor is not rewarded. In short, there is "nothing in it for them" as their own "greed" cannot be satisfied. Libertarians, on the other hand, have a complete hatred of govt regs (except defense and contract enforcement) and let the people do what they will. So their "greed" is the ONLY motivator. Unfortunately, for others, with no govt regulation of anything the libertarians are free to harm others via their actions. Libertarians believe that what you do is your own business and other be dammed if they don't like it as there are no controls (in this topic think pollution) on their actions Since people are most motivated by thier own interests, neither socialism, nor libertarianism work in the modern world. Neither Lenin, or James Buchannan are correct. Those of us old enough to remember what either our major rivers looked like before the clean water act and what our air smelled like before the impostion of clean air regulations understand that very minor controls have improved our lives. Loggers will cut down the last tree and fisherman will net the last fish unless we regulate them in a responsible way.

Author:	bugnout [ Wed May 20, 2009 8:08 pm ]
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vtdog wrote: Those of us old enough to remember what either our major rivers looked like before the clean water act and what our air smelled like before the impostion of clean air regulations understand that very minor controls have improved our lives. I am old enough and agree 100% with this. But... For any system to work it must rely on the fact that individuals will almost always do what is best for themselves and their families before worrying about the family next door, the environment, the oceans or any other thing. And that is as it should be. True altruism is rare and usually only practiced by those that can afford it. You can bet they got to that point only by acting in their own self interest to begin with.

Author:	warp2diesel [ Wed May 20, 2009 10:15 pm ]
Post subject:	Does that work for a JK too
danoid wrote: The 'wiggle out' is 'light duty' trucks. All it takes is a few suspension tweaks and a KJ could be rated at 8800# GVW with a 2000# tow rating. Bingo! The KJ is now a heavy duty truck and doesn't count. definitions: (Gross Vehicle Weight) GVW = weight of vehicle + passengers + cargo (Gross Combined Weight) GCW = GVW + trailer capacity Current GCW is 10,500#. This is what the cooling system, engine, trans, axle, etc. have to withstand. Current GVW is 5600# ish. New springs, shocks, tires, wheels and that can get raised easily. So now a KJ sized truck will be 'heavy duty' with a 2000# trailer rating. But 'wink wink' it will really tow 5000#... At least that's what I would do. But we've already discussed the fact that I'm not in charge where I work... As much as I like my KJ CRD, I realy like the JK body, if it had the Diesel, I would be very tempted. Would a beefed up JK be possible to get it into the next class? I don't think a Jk would look too bad with 8 lug wheels. Back to the rant going through the thread, a lot of Representatives and Senators have to go along with the Top Chicago Politician's wish to go through. He lost big today on Camp Gitmo. Sorry Colorado hunters, you will need to stick to Deer and Elk for now, no Al-Queita permits will be issued.