Full Suncoast Transmission ... (update 7/7/09)

05infernoCRDL · **Posted:** Fri Jun 05, 2009 3:53 pm

This is a thread about a full suncoast transmission.. The TC, shift kit and the 545 HD clutch kit...

I first mentioned in another thread that I was going to install the HD clutch kit and the thread below was brought up.

http://www.lostjeeps.com/forum/phpBB3/vie ... hp?t=42958

This thread referenced that a member had one installed and didn't like the results and ended up getting rid of the truck. I think they also installed the resistor which makes for harsh shifting unless under wot or towing.

I am planning on installing this kit not because I have just decided to install it but because my stock transmission gave up the ghost at 56K miles with no signs of abuse.

I understand that there could be an improvement in the firmness of the shifting, and I also understand that with an electronically controlled transmission there might be no difference.

Most of my kit is going to be installed professionally with the exception of the resistor that is already installed by me on a switch.

I think this is the straw that broke the other owners back... With the increased frictional surface area of the HD kit the resistor might have made every gear harsh instead of only the 2-3 shift.

I know my CRD won't get to 400 hp but it is a torque monster and I have the inmotion flash.

So this is a test and hopefully it has the desired outcome.

gmctd · **Posted:** Fri Jun 05, 2009 11:20 pm

It's likely not the cure, but no way it can hurt, long as you manage the TG pressure resistor - the harsh 2-3 shift results because TCM holds 2nd range until after 3rd range is engaged - increased line pressure makes it very obvious - does it in normal mode also but normal line pressure makes it less noticeable - my KJ actually slows down on light throttle application with the resistor switched-in - keep us informed, and I'm sure Suncoast will be interested, also - btw, did you do a thread when your trans cratered as to effect and cause?

05infernoCRDL · **Posted:** Fri Jun 05, 2009 11:43 pm

gmctd wrote:

It's likely not the cure, but no way it can hurt, long as you manage the TG pressure resistor - the harsh 2-3 shift results because TCM holds 2nd range until after 3rd range is engaged - increased line pressure makes it very obvious - does it in normal mode also but normal line pressure makes it less noticeable - my KJ actually slows down on light throttle application with the resistor switched-in - keep us informed, and I'm sure Suncoast will be interested, also - btw, did you do a thread when your trans cratered as to effect and cause?

we'll see about the resistor deal....

i did not create a thread about the transmission bailing on me... but it would go 1,2,3.... slip and slam back into 3rd... well i think 3rd... but it would slip horribly then slam somewhere... the valve body was intact.. and there was shrapnel in the pan

05infernoCRDL · **Posted:** Sat Jun 20, 2009 11:06 pm

ok... so the built transmission is in...

here are the results.. 1/2 shift nice and firm... 2/3 shift throws you out the front window.... i havn't had the marbles to go past that...

the way i will describe the shift is the 2/3 overlap you get with the resistor but 1000 times harder...

i am callin suncoast on monday to see what the new valve body pistons do.. i think the rough 2/3 can be remidied with the stock pistons

gmctd · **Posted:** Sun Jun 21, 2009 2:43 am

All goes back to what Danoid was stating against much opposition back when I first signed on here: no matter how you beef up the mechanicals, the TCM is still gonna do only what it's programmed to do, thus voiding any improvements - gotsta get into that TCM, way down, deep

Ranger1 · **Joined:** Mon Oct 17, 2005 7:40 pm **Posts:** 1137

Using a tranny shop that knows how to build a performance tranny is a key requirement for success. I know one CRD owner personally who has the same kit installed, i.e., HD clutches, SunCoast TC, the works and is thrilled with it. His exact words were "it's awesome." He said shift quality is tremendous, far better than anything he has experienced in an automatic. He owned a Dodge Ram Cummins diesel before the KJ CRD and is familiar with diesel powered vehicles.

He has the same TCM in his 05 CRD that this unfortunate CRD owner has. Same model CRD. Same parts as far as I can tell. One big difference is that he had Ron at SunCoast build his 545RFE for him. It takes far more than just parts and knowing how to install them to make a HD performance upgrade work.

When Retmil46 and I were asking Bruce about using those HD kits in our tranny's, he warned us about using them without a custom build and mods to the valve body to make it shift correctly. His warning was that they can engage so agressively that they will lock up the tranny in two gears at once, due to the shift overlap. It takes expertise that many shops do not have to build a performance tranny.

05infernoCRDL · **Posted:** Sun Jun 21, 2009 10:21 pm

Ranger1 wrote:

Using a tranny shop that knows how to build a performance tranny is a key requirement for success. I know one CRD owner personally who has the same kit installed, i.e., HD clutches, SunCoast TC, the works and is thrilled with it. His exact words were "it's awesome." He said shift quality is tremendous, far better than anything he has experienced in an automatic. He owned a Dodge Ram Cummins diesel before the KJ CRD and is familiar with diesel powered vehicles.

He has the same TCM in his 05 CRD that this unfortunate CRD owner has. Same model CRD. Same parts as far as I can tell. One big difference is that he had Ron at SunCoast build his 545RFE for him. It takes far more than just parts and knowing how to install them to make a HD performance upgrade work.

When Retmil46 and I were asking Bruce about using those HD kits in our tranny's, he warned us about using them without a custom build and mods to the valve body to make it shift correctly. His warning was that they can engage so agressively that they will lock up the tranny in two gears at once, due to the shift overlap. It takes expertise that many shops do not have to build a performance tranny.

they guy that built my tranny used to own a race shop where that is all he did... i wonder what else should be done to the valve body... i am calling them tomorrow (monday the 22nd)... and i agree when this is up and running well it should shift firm and amazing

Ranger1 · **Joined:** Mon Oct 17, 2005 7:40 pm **Posts:** 1137

Sent you a pm.

danoid · **Posted:** Mon Jun 22, 2009 11:30 am

Each clutch maintains a learned volume in the TCM. Sounds to me like the transmission was changed but the TCM still thinks it's controlling the old trans.

You need to reset the TCM learned clutch volumes. If you're friendly with the dealership, ask them to do a "Quicklearn" on your trans. Should take about a minute on a warmed up transmission with the proper diagnostic equipment.

If you want to try it yourself, possibly an aftermarket code reader could do it, I don't know. It a similar diagnostic call to a fault code read. Try searching through all other functions, look for something called quick learn or similar. Maybe someone else can chime in on that one.

05infernoCRDL · **Posted:** Mon Jun 22, 2009 11:55 am

danoid wrote:

Each clutch maintains a learned volume in the TCM. Sounds to me like the transmission was changed but the TCM still thinks it's controlling the old trans.

You need to reset the TCM learned clutch volumes. If you're friendly with the dealership, ask them to do a "Quicklearn" on your trans. Should take about a minute on a warmed up transmission with the proper diagnostic equipment.

If you want to try it yourself, possibly an aftermarket code reader could do it, I don't know. It a similar diagnostic call to a fault code read. Try searching through all other functions, look for something called quick learn or similar. Maybe someone else can chime in on that one.

bingo bango.... just talked to ron and he said if my clutches were burnt out (which they were) he TCM is sending boat loads of oil to correct the missing spaces... he said to do the quick learn and all should be good

05infernoCRDL · **Posted:** Tue Jul 07, 2009 3:35 pm

okay had to take it to the dealer cause no one had a drbII to preform the quicklearn... turns out i had a bad line pressure solenoid..

dealers comments were... fixed problem, shifts hard and slips take to transmission shop...

upshifting all is good... nice and crisp shifting you can tell when it goes into gear but it is not harsh at all...
downshifting... slips when you get on it, sometimes it just slips and then catches sometimes it chatters, mainly dependent on how much throttle you are giving it.

once i get this slipping on the downshift figured out i recommend this 100% if you need a rebuild

Joe Romas · **Posted:** Tue Jul 07, 2009 8:23 pm

05infernoCRDL wrote:

okay had to take it to the dealer cause no one had a drbII to preform the quicklearn... turns out i had a bad line pressure solenoid..

dealers comments were... fixed problem, shifts hard and slips take to transmission shop...

upshifting all is good... nice and crisp shifting you can tell when it goes into gear but it is not harsh at all...
downshifting... slips when you get on it, sometimes it just slips and then catches sometimes it chatters, mainly dependent on how much throttle you are giving it.

once i get this slipping on the downshift figured out i recommend this 100% if you need a rebuild

Trevor

Earlier today I was reading in the 05 fsm about limp modes, there are 3. But while there I read about the quick learn thing and as I understand it it's not the pot of gold at the end of the rain bow just a step further along the path and normal driving is still needed as I read it. It also told how to do it for certain gear changes with out a scan tool. You might want to give it a look. Here's one section.
Procedure To Learn A Smooth 1-2 Upshift And
3-2 Kickdown:
Use the following steps to have the TCM learn the
2C shift volume.
NOTE: The transmission oil temperature
must be above 110°F (43°C).
1. With a vehicle speed below 48 km/h (30 MPH)
and the transmission in 3rd gear, perform multiple
3-2 kickdowns.
2. Repeat step 1 until the 3-2 kickdowns become
smooth and the 2C CVI becomes stable.

Joe

05infernoCRDL · **Posted:** Tue Jul 07, 2009 11:06 pm

Joe Romas wrote:

05infernoCRDL wrote:

okay had to take it to the dealer cause no one had a drbII to preform the quicklearn... turns out i had a bad line pressure solenoid..

dealers comments were... fixed problem, shifts hard and slips take to transmission shop...

upshifting all is good... nice and crisp shifting you can tell when it goes into gear but it is not harsh at all...
downshifting... slips when you get on it, sometimes it just slips and then catches sometimes it chatters, mainly dependent on how much throttle you are giving it.

once i get this slipping on the downshift figured out i recommend this 100% if you need a rebuild

Trevor

Earlier today I was reading in the 05 fsm about limp modes, there are 3. But while there I read about the quick learn thing and as I understand it it's not the pot of gold at the end of the rain bow just a step further along the path and normal driving is still needed as I read it. It also told how to do it for certain gear changes with out a scan tool. You might want to give it a look. Here's one section.
Procedure To Learn A Smooth 1-2 Upshift And
3-2 Kickdown:
Use the following steps to have the TCM learn the
2C shift volume.
NOTE: The transmission oil temperature
must be above 110°F (43°C).
1. With a vehicle speed below 48 km/h (30 MPH)
and the transmission in 3rd gear, perform multiple
3-2 kickdowns.
2. Repeat step 1 until the 3-2 kickdowns become
smooth and the 2C CVI becomes stable.

Joe

looks like when i have been trying to avoid the 3-2 downshift i should have been doing it... thanks i'll give this a try

Full Suncoast Transmission ... (update 7/7/09)

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