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If Biodiesel is reaching areas of the combustion chamber without burning, such as behind an injector, it will polymerize into varnish. But then again, so can D2.

nursecosmo wrote:

If Biodiesel is reaching areas of the combustion chamber without burning, such as behind an injector, it will polymerize into varnish. But then again, so can D2.

Yep, so I'm probably due a fast hard drive to burn that crap out.

UFO wrote:

nursecosmo wrote:

If Biodiesel is reaching areas of the combustion chamber without burning, such as behind an injector, it will polymerize into varnish. But then again, so can D2.

Yep, so I'm probably due a fast hard drive to burn that crap out.

Heat will make it worse once it is there. It just becomes shiny black coal. Even though BD is a good injector cleaner, it can't dissolve all compounds. A good petroleum based injector cleaner can soften some of the gunk and varnish that BD can't. I don't think that anything will clean behind your injector if it isn't seating properly.

If your running bio-d I would suggest another oil change.

nursecosmo wrote:

UFO wrote:

nursecosmo wrote:

If Biodiesel is reaching areas of the combustion chamber without burning, such as behind an injector, it will polymerize into varnish. But then again, so can D2.

Yep, so I'm probably due a fast hard drive to burn that crap out.

The injectors have been pulled and cleaned. I am referring to the carbon buildup in the chambers left behind from so much incompletely combusted fuel due to the compression leak.

And I dispute your claim that a petroleum injector cleaner is any better at dissolving deposits than biodiesel. At least I've not come across one.

UFO wrote:

nursecosmo wrote:

UFO wrote:

nursecosmo wrote:

If Biodiesel is reaching areas of the combustion chamber without burning, such as behind an injector, it will polymerize into varnish. But then again, so can D2.

Yep, so I'm probably due a fast hard drive to burn that crap out.

How can BD clean up it's own varnish?

UFO wrote:

nursecosmo wrote:

UFO wrote:

nursecosmo wrote:

If Biodiesel is reaching areas of the combustion chamber without burning, such as behind an injector, it will polymerize into varnish. But then again, so can D2.

Yep, so I'm probably due a fast hard drive to burn that crap out.

How can BD clean up it's own varnish?

Author:	UFO [ Sun Jul 12, 2009 11:28 am ]
Post subject:	Injector leak
I was changing the oil and noticed a hissing. At first I thought it was my CCV puck or my "provent" plugged -- not to be. I felt the hiss pulsing above number 2 injector. The fuel pipe was damp at the fitting and the whole area around all the injectors is uniformly coated with soot. This certainly explains the exhaust smell that occasionally creeps into the cab while driving around town. I didn't notice the hissing though, as I have the engine cover still installed. Without it, it is pretty loud. Anyone had this issue? What's the likely solution?

Author:	gmctd [ Sun Jul 12, 2009 4:08 pm ]
Post subject:
If the soot is exhaust, remove the fuel pipe and the return hose, tighten the injector into the cyl head, see if that heals it - if not, install a new copper washer, try again - however, the damp and "soot" may be dirt and fuel, so try tightening the fuel pipe nut - or could be the return line leaking, so check the clamp for loose or the hose for split

Author:	nursecosmo [ Sun Jul 12, 2009 5:04 pm ]
Post subject:
At least it wasn't a 23000 PSI fuel leak. One of those will cut your finger right off without you even seeing the leak.

Author:	UFO [ Sun Jul 12, 2009 9:14 pm ]
Post subject:
It's definitely a compression leak, you can feel and hear the air move up with each stroke. The slight leak at the fuel line compression fitting may just be incidental, as I have no cuts from a defective line. And the engine works fine, no noticeable misfire or loss of power. I've been smelling exhaust for 6 months or so, so it's not a new issue. Unfortunately I don't have the time to mess with this. The Jeep is due for a big service at 62,500 miles, fluid changes, etc.. so I may have my mechanic check it out at that time. I doubt he does factory warranty work though, so I hope it doesn't turn into a huge expense.

Author:	MrMopar64 [ Sun Jul 12, 2009 9:24 pm ]
Post subject:
You can get the copper washers at any diesel shop that sells Bosch parts for a couple of bucks (last time i had to buy some a few years ago they were like $2-3). It shouldn't take more than 15 minutes to pull the injector, replace the copper washer, and put it all back together. There should be an o-ring seal on the body of the injector that seals it effectively to the tube in the head it sits in to keep water, dust, etc from getting down to the bottom. If you're passing a lot of combustion gasses up thru there you'll burn out the O-ring too. Plus, all that heat passing up around the injector body isn't good. I would recommend to replace it as soon as it is feasible for you to do so.

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Author:	vegiH [ Sun Jul 12, 2009 10:28 pm ]
Post subject:
bio or wvo will eat copper,reducing thickness of washer,couple this with a rig prone to bad motor mount from vibrations and you have a injector that loosened itself.replace copper with brass and you should be alright.............H

Author:	gmctd [ Mon Jul 13, 2009 1:43 am ]
Post subject:
The copper washer in question is to seal the injector to the cylinder head against cylinder and combustion pressure at combustion temps, not to seal the fuel supply - the rubber o'ring on the upper body is to seal the lower end body to the cylinder head bore from water\fuel\air\whatnot, preventing electrolysis at the steel\copper\aluminum interfaces - copper is spec'ed by the oem engineers - use copper when replacing

Author:	UFO [ Mon Jul 13, 2009 2:32 am ]
Post subject:
Thanks for the excellent suggestions all.

Author:	UFO [ Wed Jul 15, 2009 7:16 pm ]
Post subject:
I'm strapped for time, so I had my mechanic take a look at the issue this week. He replaced the washers, and noted there was a lot of carbon built up behind the injector. I suspect this was just due to the fact there was such a huge compression leak and incomplete burning of the fuel during warmup. But he did ask whether biodiesel could have something do do with it. I'm thinking not; it burns as clean or cleaner than diesel, unlike vegetable oil. After number 2 was fixed, he noticed number 3 was doing the same thing to a lesser degree and numbers 1 and 4 were nice and tight. He did use the factory tool to extract them from the head, so I'm glad at this point I did not have to deal with this, with all the build up complicating extraction.

Author:	nursecosmo [ Wed Jul 15, 2009 7:36 pm ]
Post subject:
If Biodiesel is reaching areas of the combustion chamber without burning, such as behind an injector, it will polymerize into varnish. But then again, so can D2.

Author:	UFO [ Wed Jul 15, 2009 7:52 pm ]
Post subject:
nursecosmo wrote: If Biodiesel is reaching areas of the combustion chamber without burning, such as behind an injector, it will polymerize into varnish. But then again, so can D2. Yep, so I'm probably due a fast hard drive to burn that crap out.

Author:	nursecosmo [ Wed Jul 15, 2009 8:04 pm ]
Post subject:
UFO wrote: nursecosmo wrote: If Biodiesel is reaching areas of the combustion chamber without burning, such as behind an injector, it will polymerize into varnish. But then again, so can D2. Yep, so I'm probably due a fast hard drive to burn that crap out. Heat will make it worse once it is there. It just becomes shiny black coal. Even though BD is a good injector cleaner, it can't dissolve all compounds. A good petroleum based injector cleaner can soften some of the gunk and varnish that BD can't. I don't think that anything will clean behind your injector if it isn't seating properly.

Author:	UFO [ Thu Jul 16, 2009 5:20 pm ]
Post subject:
nursecosmo wrote: UFO wrote: nursecosmo wrote: If Biodiesel is reaching areas of the combustion chamber without burning, such as behind an injector, it will polymerize into varnish. But then again, so can D2. Yep, so I'm probably due a fast hard drive to burn that crap out. Heat will make it worse once it is there. It just becomes shiny black coal. Even though BD is a good injector cleaner, it can't dissolve all compounds. A good petroleum based injector cleaner can soften some of the gunk and varnish that BD can't. I don't think that anything will clean behind your injector if it isn't seating properly. The injectors have been pulled and cleaned. I am referring to the carbon buildup in the chambers left behind from so much incompletely combusted fuel due to the compression leak. And I dispute your claim that a petroleum injector cleaner is any better at dissolving deposits than biodiesel. At least I've not come across one.

Author:	onthehunt [ Thu Jul 16, 2009 8:02 pm ]
Post subject:
If your running bio-d I would suggest another oil change.

Author:	vegiH [ Fri Jul 17, 2009 9:19 am ]
Post subject:
cleaning it is fine if you know where the grit is going,if it ends up in the injectors path of spray it could cause damage to internal parts.I would suggest cleaning and either suctioning,or vaccuming it out as you clean................H

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Author:	nursecosmo [ Thu Jul 16, 2009 10:34 pm ]
Post subject:
onthehunt wrote: If your running bio-d I would suggest another oil change. X2 if you were having poor combustion.

Author:	nursecosmo [ Thu Jul 16, 2009 10:35 pm ]
Post subject:
UFO wrote: nursecosmo wrote: UFO wrote: nursecosmo wrote: If Biodiesel is reaching areas of the combustion chamber without burning, such as behind an injector, it will polymerize into varnish. But then again, so can D2. Yep, so I'm probably due a fast hard drive to burn that crap out. Heat will make it worse once it is there. It just becomes shiny black coal. Even though BD is a good injector cleaner, it can't dissolve all compounds. A good petroleum based injector cleaner can soften some of the gunk and varnish that BD can't. I don't think that anything will clean behind your injector if it isn't seating properly. The injectors have been pulled and cleaned. I am referring to the carbon buildup in the chambers left behind from so much incompletely combusted fuel due to the compression leak. And I dispute your claim that a petroleum injector cleaner is any better at dissolving deposits than biodiesel. At least I've not come across one. How can BD clean up it's own varnish?

Author:	kdlewis1975 [ Thu Jul 16, 2009 11:18 pm ]
Post subject:
nursecosmo wrote: UFO wrote: nursecosmo wrote: UFO wrote: nursecosmo wrote: If Biodiesel is reaching areas of the combustion chamber without burning, such as behind an injector, it will polymerize into varnish. But then again, so can D2. Yep, so I'm probably due a fast hard drive to burn that crap out. Heat will make it worse once it is there. It just becomes shiny black coal. Even though BD is a good injector cleaner, it can't dissolve all compounds. A good petroleum based injector cleaner can soften some of the gunk and varnish that BD can't. I don't think that anything will clean behind your injector if it isn't seating properly. The injectors have been pulled and cleaned. I am referring to the carbon buildup in the chambers left behind from so much incompletely combusted fuel due to the compression leak. And I dispute your claim that a petroleum injector cleaner is any better at dissolving deposits than biodiesel. At least I've not come across one. How can BD clean up it's own varnish? "Like dissolves like." Styrene dissolves polystyrene up until the molecular weight gets high enough where in which the polymer is then dissolving the styrene. If you want a "good" solvent system, mix phenol and cresol together in equal proportions and heat it to 100 deg. C. Not only will it dissolve or generally f-up anything on the engine that isn't metal, it will also dissolve human flesh down to the bone. The answer is "because it can." ...and probably more correctly, "because it could." Since it's now a varnish/char combination, there may not be a lot of things out there that will magically remove it. One practical solution would be use a paint stripper composition or something along those lines. Look at the ingredients list. Because it has the "good stuff" in it, they have to put it on there per environmental reporting regulations. Look for a product that contains "dichloromethane" or "methylene chloride" and try that. This isn't good for you, so don't take a big "hit" on it. Wear a respectable pair of gloves made of nitrile or thick rubber. Make sure the engine is cool since this particular chemical boils at around 100 deg F. It may be hard to find compositions with chlorinated solvents, so the ones containing mixtures of xylene, toluene, and other things in it may work. Because whatever you use will interact with rubber strongly, make sure you're only putting it where you want it. Considering it's substantial ability to f-up the paint on a car, you could try brake fluid. Pine tar remover could be a possibility too.

Author:	UFO [ Fri Jul 17, 2009 11:57 am ]
Post subject:
nursecosmo wrote: UFO wrote: nursecosmo wrote: UFO wrote: nursecosmo wrote: If Biodiesel is reaching areas of the combustion chamber without burning, such as behind an injector, it will polymerize into varnish. But then again, so can D2. Yep, so I'm probably due a fast hard drive to burn that crap out. Heat will make it worse once it is there. It just becomes shiny black coal. Even though BD is a good injector cleaner, it can't dissolve all compounds. A good petroleum based injector cleaner can soften some of the gunk and varnish that BD can't. I don't think that anything will clean behind your injector if it isn't seating properly. The injectors have been pulled and cleaned. I am referring to the carbon buildup in the chambers left behind from so much incompletely combusted fuel due to the compression leak. And I dispute your claim that a petroleum injector cleaner is any better at dissolving deposits than biodiesel. At least I've not come across one. How can BD clean up it's own varnish? Like I've already tried to explain previously, the injectors (ie: "behind the injector") were CLEANED. I have a fresh oil change as well. I picked it up today, it's running very nicely, and when I jumped on the accelerator, I didn't make any smoke. I appreciate your concern, however some of it seems to be based on the properties of vegetable oil, not biodiesel, which burns cleanly and more closely matches the combustion characteristics of diesel. What came out with the injectors was carbon, not "varnish".