New CRD driver - Need some help with CEL

CRDCanada · **Posted:** Mon Jun 29, 2009 11:20 am

First off - I want to say thanks to everyone for contributing! It's a relef to find a site that has so many experts available. Sadly, our local dealerships have very little experience working on the CRD.. I'm on my own with this one.

My 2006 CRD was my wife's company vehicle (she needed a vehicle that could go way up north in the winter) We had the opportunity to purchase it off lease last month for $1200.... Of course we went for that deal!

Currently it's unmodified, and has had the EGR replaced not too long ago. I am looking into performing the ORM to take care of that issue.

My problem is, it's putting out a code P0299 - Boost pressure low. I can clear the code, but it returns after some time driving. Performance wise, it's running fine. I've checked the boost hoses, all seem to be fine without cracks, and are tight. I cleaned the sensors mentioned in many posts as well, they were very dirty and one (I think the map sensor) was totally plugged solid.

Anywhere else for me to check? I looked around for vacuum leaks, couldn't find anything. The only "unusual" thing I found was, on the passenger side fender there is what appears to be a vacuum control valve with a little air filter connected at the bottom. This unit is making some noise.

Anyone else have any suggestions for areas to check?

Thanks very much!

linewarbr · **Posted:** Mon Jun 29, 2009 11:37 am

That little filter is the "Boost Pressure Solenoid Filter." Apparently the variable-vane technology in our turbos is vacuum-controlled; not sure how. I have 49K miles and have not changed mine, but I ordered 4 from moparsupercenter.com just to have some.

Have you tried changing the air filter?

Another member on here last week, "ribbon" I think, kept getting the same code even after cleaning the MAP sensor and checking the boost hoses. Ribbon ended up replacing the MAP sensor itself and has had no more trouble.

http://www.lostjeeps.com/forum/phpBB3/vie ... f3ccd5611f

CRDCanada · **Posted:** Mon Jun 29, 2009 11:58 am

Thanks! I never changed the air filter.. I guess I was looking for a more complex problem.. Will try that first and report back. I read the posts you mentioned, but it looked like they had a different code than I do - Mine is the P0299 code, something to do with boost pressure being too low.

gmctd · **Posted:** Mon Jun 29, 2009 11:59 am

What mileage and what type of noise are you hearing from the vacuum manager reservoir?

CRDCanada · **Posted:** Mon Jun 29, 2009 1:11 pm

Vacuum Manager - OK - I just had a listen. It's a ZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZ buzzing noise coming from it. I can feel it as well thru the case of the unit. It reminds me of a ball bearing going back and forth, similar to the sound of a PCV valve but at a higher frequency.

The Jeep has 120,000 Km's on it.

CRDCanada · **Posted:** Mon Jun 29, 2009 7:21 pm

Changed a very dirty air filter, but the CEL came on again on the way home..

gmctd · **Posted:** Tue Jun 30, 2009 1:50 am

Shouldn't buzz - check vacuum pump output for ~25"HG at idle and 2000rpm - if good , possibility of leaky vacuum hose or failing solenoid - there're two of them, one for the wastegate, the other for vacuum control to the manager

CRDCanada · **Posted:** Wed Aug 05, 2009 1:34 pm

Please forgive me.. I'm not sure of the technical terms for these units, but I will do my best.

Main vacuum into what looks like an on-off solenoid beside the wastegate(I believe this is what the unit with the little filter is called is 27 HG.. 27 is the same all the way to the little wastegate valve, which I assume varies the vacuum placed on the turbo.. At idle I was getting 15HG out, and right at the turbo as well, eliminating any leaks in the lines.

This little unit with the filter (the wastegate?) still makes a buzzing noise and is drawing air in from the bottom (thru the filter)

Boost sensor has been cleaned, air filter changed, tried running it without the little wastegate filter, checked all the CAC hoses (there is no smoke coming out the exhaust, it is running very well) and yet the CEL comes back on, with the P0299 code after a few minutes of driving each time I reset it.

Any suggestions? what should i look at next?

linewarbr · **Posted:** Wed Aug 05, 2009 1:40 pm

If the vacuum is good and everything else is ruled out, I think there may be one more thing to try. Clear the code, disconnect the battery for 20 minutes, make sure the MAP sensor is clean, and then reconnect the battery and drive it. If you still get the code, I think it may be time for a new MAP sensor.

CRDCanada · **Posted:** Wed Aug 05, 2009 4:25 pm

I'm still not sure about the vacuum manager and the noise it is making... the buzzing. Is there a way to test it to make sure that it is working? I assume it is doing its job by dropping the vacuum pressure down from 27 to 15 to the turbo... but maybe it's not reacting properly?

GreenDieselEngineering · **Joined:** Sun Jun 07, 2009 5:10 pm **Posts:** 1111

It sounds like the EGR circuit is partially plugged or a sticky valve. If running in ORM after clearing codes solves the issue, then the EGR circuit is in need of a bath. Do you have a scantool that reads much OBD data live?

CRDCanada · **Posted:** Thu Aug 06, 2009 11:41 am

Thank you all for your help.. this is amazing!

I did try running the ORM, cleared the codes.. The P0299 came back, along with a couple others I associated with the ORM.

I left the battery disconnected all night.. Interesting, it cleared the time on the radio but the pre-sets were still good, and the check engine light was still on with a bunch of codes that I cleared.. Light is not on yet, but will keep you posted.

I did more testing on the vacuum post Vacuum Manager - The vacuum coming out is 15 HG at idle, but when I hit the gas, it drops to 0... it seems like vacuum is only working at idle. Is this correct? When I say vacuum manager, I mean the little control thing with the tiny air filter on the bottom!

The vacuum being applied to the control valve is 27 HG across the board, regardless of engine speed.

As for the live data reader, I don't have one handy (I just have a cheapie code reader) but I can get a lend of one.. Is there something I should be checking for?

Thank you so very much for all your help. Our dealerships have no idea what they are doing with this engine... They'll blindly replace parts left and right, after waiting weeks for them to come in, all on my dime. (I don't want my neighbours to catch me eating from their trash...again! LOL)

linewarbr · **Posted:** Thu Aug 06, 2009 12:22 pm

I am not an expert, pretty much everything I have learned about this engine I have learned on this forum. Also, if you unplug the MAF, (known as the ORM) you will get a CEL. However, I think it is safe to narrow it down to one of four root causes, in order (I think) of likelihood, as well as of cost and complication.

1.) A faulty MAP sensor that is telling you there is "underboost" when actually the turbo is pushing just fine. With my not fully understanding the vacuum issue, that is what I lean toward.

2.) A Vacuum issue that is not allowing the turbo vanes to actuate properly, thus taking longer to spool up and push boost into the engine. If that is the case, I am thinking it would accelerate slowly with noticeable smoke until the turbo gets going.

3.) An EGR valve or FCV (Flow Control Valve) malfunction. If you are not experiencing driveability problems, then the EGR valve could be stuck closed; however, that would not induce an underboost code. If the valve is crudded up and stuck open (even partially) then you would experience reduced acceleration and more black smoke - similar to a vacuum issue. The Flow Control Valve is on the intake side of the EGR tube; it actually opens and closes to control EGR flow into the intake. It is quite possible that, if all other symtoms are ruled out, then the FCV could have failed in the open position while the EGR is continuing to work as designed. This could result in a divergence of intake boost, giving an underboost code in situations where the intake boost is backflowing into the EGR tube while the EGR is closed.

4.) You could have a turbo getting ready to prematurely fail.

sccrnt8 · **Posted:** Sun Aug 09, 2009 7:45 pm

CRD Canada,
I'm having the absolute same symptoms as you are with my CEL. I have no smoke in my exhaust and have plenty enough power to get my CRD sideways if I step on the throttle. I have a Scanguage II on my jeep and constantly monitor everything looking for something out of the ordinary but still can't pin point the problem either. The dealer replaced quite a few items a few years ago and still no help with my CEL light. I took a road trip a little over a year ago from the east coast to my land out in Colorado and had the CEL the whole time, and still do. The strangest thing was when I started getting higher in altitude (5000 ft+) the CEL did NOT come on for that duration.
Have you found a remedy for our unfortunate, shared situation yet?

CRDCanada · **Posted:** Mon Aug 10, 2009 4:19 pm

Hi Sccrnt8,

No solution as of yet.. But I think I know what the problem is with mine, I just need to confirm.. I believe my vacuum manger is bad based on all the help that I have received on the forum. Post vacuum manager, the vacuum level is dropping to 0 when hitting the gas on mine.. apparently this is not a normal condition. Along with the buzzing it is making, I'm fairly certain this unit is bad. Once i know for sure, I will post the solution.

GreenDieselEngineering · **Joined:** Sun Jun 07, 2009 5:10 pm **Posts:** 1111

Here are some typical vacuum levels measured at the turbocharger:

stock stock
No Load (in Hg) Load (in Hg)
760 14 14
1000 14.5 15
2000 10 13
3000 9 8
4000 8 7
WOT 3.5
Tip-Out 0 3
then to 14 then to 13

Hopefully this provides a decent comparison for your measurements.

GreenDieselEngineering · **Joined:** Sun Jun 07, 2009 5:10 pm **Posts:** 1111

That did not post very clearly!

stock
No Load (in Hg)
760 14
1000 14.5
2000 10
3000 9
4000 8
WOT
Tip-Out 0
then to 14

stock
Load (in Hg)
760 14
1000 15
2000 13
3000 8
4000 7
WOT 3.5
Tip-Out 3
then to 13

maybe this will be more readable.

Joe Romas · **Posted:** Tue Aug 11, 2009 2:04 pm

Canada Diesel.

I just went out and checked my 06 crd and the square part of the vacuum thinngy, not the little part with the small filter that is mounted by the blue rubber piece, vibrates when the engine is running :lol:

So if the "buzzing" is more like a vibration then I don't think it's bad just based on the vibration :wink:

CRDCanada · **Posted:** Fri Aug 14, 2009 3:50 pm

Hi All,

Thanks for all your help. I've found the problem - The actuator arm for the turbo is not moving, and with further disassembly I've confirmed that it's stuck solid, and it's not the actuator that is to blame. I think the turbo must be really dirty and the vanes stuck, hopefully, or I have bigger problems.

The TDI forums have been helpful with methods for cleaning the turbo. - it seems like a more common problem with those guys. As I mentioned earlier, my wife drove this car originally, long drives in 80km/h zones almost daily. I doubt the jeep ever saw WOT before I got my hands on it!

Will try and take pictures and post. I hope to get it done on Sunday. Thanks to all who have helped out - including Ranger1 who has been answering lots of questions via PM.

Just as a sidenote, I did purchase a new modulator in hopes that it was the problem.. It still makes noise. (not vibration) I'm wondering if the noise is attributed to the fact the actuator is stuck in place.... I will let everyone know!

Joe Romas · **Posted:** Fri Aug 14, 2009 4:17 pm

OK I was a tdi owner too. On the tdi's you could reach around and down and operate the lever by hand and get it loose. I don't know what has to be removed so you can get your hand on it. When I had my tdi's they were not to the point that they would not operate by hand and get them loose. Can you reach it? Also some good penatrating oil where it comes out of the houseing would help too.

Good luck.

Joe

New CRD driver - Need some help with CEL

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