Is your CRD still using the original Optima red top battery?

UFO · **Posted:** Tue Nov 10, 2009 12:20 pm

geordi wrote:

I replaced my Red Top last week after I noticed that two of the caps under the sticker had "popped" and that it was getting harder to crank in the morning.

Got a 850 CCA battery from Wally-World for 75 clams. They didn't sell the red top, and I wasn't in the mood to be driving all over town to overpay for a battery. But my CRD is still doing the 'lights flickering and voltage spasm' thing at night.... So there is yet ANOTHER problem that I haven't been able to solve yet.

Still have that stupid acceleration problem too - slow down for a turn or something, then step on the go... And barely any go, but LOTS of smoke, then VROOM and it goes. Highly annoying and wasteful, and of course.. No codes.

Sounds like you may have an alternator issue. BTW, I'm seeing my Red Top battery has popped a cap as well, so this may be it's last winter.

ChadA · **Posted:** Wed Nov 11, 2009 11:13 pm

Getting close to 60,000 miles on original red top, PNW climate..

What is the best replacement? Another Optima dry cell? Red top, yellow top, what is the difference?

tjkj2002 · **Posted:** Wed Nov 11, 2009 11:38 pm

ChadA wrote:

Getting close to 60,000 miles on original red top, PNW climate..

What is the best replacement? Another Optima dry cell? Red top, yellow top, what is the difference?

I'd highly recommend these.........

http://www.odysseybatteries.com/battery/pc1500series.htm

geordi · **Posted:** Wed Nov 11, 2009 11:49 pm

UFO wrote:

geordi wrote:

I replaced my Red Top last week after I noticed that two of the caps under the sticker had "popped" and that it was getting harder to crank in the morning.

Got a 850 CCA battery from Wally-World for 75 clams. They didn't sell the red top, and I wasn't in the mood to be driving all over town to overpay for a battery. But my CRD is still doing the 'lights flickering and voltage spasm' thing at night.... So there is yet ANOTHER problem that I haven't been able to solve yet.

Still have that stupid acceleration problem too - slow down for a turn or something, then step on the go... And barely any go, but LOTS of smoke, then VROOM and it goes. Highly annoying and wasteful, and of course.. No codes.

Sounds like you may have an alternator issue. BTW, I'm seeing my Red Top battery has popped a cap as well, so this may be it's last winter.

Yea, I feel you on the alternator issue. I'm not poking at it yet b/c A: Its still working and B: I don't have the green just at the moment.

Is it possible to replace just the voltage regulator on these? To me, that seems to be the root cause. It makes PLENTY of power, but it isn't smooth anymore. So I would think the alternator itself is just fine, pulley included. No noises or other signs of demise, but just this fluctuation in the voltage output, and I only notice it when the lights are on. Maybe it isn't making the amperage to support the lights without kicking into "charge" mode... But that again points to the regulator, not the alternator itself.

tjkj2002 · **Posted:** Wed Nov 11, 2009 11:59 pm

geordi wrote:

UFO wrote:

geordi wrote:

I replaced my Red Top last week after I noticed that two of the caps under the sticker had "popped" and that it was getting harder to crank in the morning.

Got a 850 CCA battery from Wally-World for 75 clams. They didn't sell the red top, and I wasn't in the mood to be driving all over town to overpay for a battery. But my CRD is still doing the 'lights flickering and voltage spasm' thing at night.... So there is yet ANOTHER problem that I haven't been able to solve yet.

Still have that stupid acceleration problem too - slow down for a turn or something, then step on the go... And barely any go, but LOTS of smoke, then VROOM and it goes. Highly annoying and wasteful, and of course.. No codes.

Sounds like you may have an alternator issue. BTW, I'm seeing my Red Top battery has popped a cap as well, so this may be it's last winter.

Yea, I feel you on the alternator issue. I'm not poking at it yet b/c A: Its still working and B: I don't have the green just at the moment.

Is it possible to replace just the voltage regulator on these? To me, that seems to be the root cause. It makes PLENTY of power, but it isn't smooth anymore. So I would think the alternator itself is just fine, pulley included. No noises or other signs of demise, but just this fluctuation in the voltage output, and I only notice it when the lights are on. Maybe it isn't making the amperage to support the lights without kicking into "charge" mode... But that again points to the regulator, not the alternator itself.

The voltage regulator is in the PCM and can not be serviced separately unless you change the whole PCM,even for the CRD's.

geordi · **Posted:** Thu Nov 12, 2009 12:22 am

PCM... Power control module? Edit: Ok, the engine computer that GDE tunes, known by yet another name. Brilliant - Locate the voltage regulator within the single most expensive component in the engine.

Quote:

Voltage is regulated by cycling the ground path to
control the strength of the rotor magnetic field. The
EVR circuitry monitors system line voltage (B+) and
battery temperature (refer to Battery Temperature
Sensor for more information). It then determines a
target charging voltage. If sensed battery voltage is
0.5 volts or lower than the target voltage, the PCM
grounds the field winding until sensed battery voltage
is 0.5 volts above target voltage. A circuit in the
PCM cycles the ground side of the generator field up
to 100 times per second (100Hz), but has the capability
to ground the field control wire 100% of the time
(full field) to achieve the target voltage.

That has got to be the dumbest design I have ever heard of. So it is DESIGNED to make the voltage fluctuate up to 100 times every second? Yea, because sensitive electronics LOVE IT when their input voltage is spiking more than 10% up to 100 times every second. Brilliant design Mopar. What a winner.

tjkj2002 · **Posted:** Thu Nov 12, 2009 12:41 am

geordi wrote:

That has got to be the dumbest design I have ever heard of. So it is DESIGNED to make the voltage fluctuate up to 100 times every second? Yea, because sensitive electronics LOVE IT when their input voltage is spiking more than 10% up to 100 times every second. Brilliant design Mopar. What a winner.

Most newer vehicles use this same design.It actually is a better system since it lets the alternator last longer and charge the battery better.Side effect is it kills batteries faster,the other electronics are perfectly okay since they can operate from 10volts-16volts with no issues.

Turbo Tim · **Posted:** Thu Nov 12, 2009 10:40 am

Quote:

I'd highly recommend these.........

http://www.odysseybatteries.com/battery ... series.htm

Good idea, Extremely BAD customer service. I have one in my motor home, had a problem, they wanted to charge me $45 to test just to see if it was even in warrantee +$$ to correct any issues. Called parent company, got same extremely bad kiss our rosy red butt cheeks-go somewhere else attitude. NEVER AGAIN with them!

Quote:

That has got to be the dumbest design I have ever heard of. So it is DESIGNED to make the voltage fluctuate up to 100 times every second? Yea, because sensitive electronics LOVE IT when their input voltage is spiking more than 10% up to 100 times every second. Brilliant design Mopar. What a winner.

Seems that some have forgotten a few physics here. The CPU can vary the input 100 times a second to the field, but the huge magnetic field that it is controlling cannot change fast at all. (Think of it as air in a balloon. Tiny puffs of air in or out doesn't change the overall size that quickly). What they are controlling is the AVERAGE field intensity which in turn controls the output. Also note that the output is directly connected to the battery. Battery voltage levels cannot change 100 times a second either. It acts like a giant filter and can provide current surges that the alternator can't.

(The output fluctuations or frequency is directly proportional to the speed of the rotor inside the alternator. It is a 3-Phase output, rectified to DC, then out to the battery. 3-Phase is much more efficient than single phase and the rectified pulses are much closer together and easier to filter to make nice clean DC power).

tjkj2002 · **Posted:** Thu Nov 12, 2009 10:47 am

Turbo Tim wrote:

Quote:

I'd highly recommend these.........

http://www.odysseybatteries.com/battery ... series.htm

Good idea, Extremely BAD customer service. I have one in my motor home, had a problem, they wanted to charge me $45 to test just to see if it was even in warrantee +$$ to correct any issues. Called parent company, got same extremely bad kiss our rosy red butt cheeks-go somewhere else attitude. NEVER AGAIN with them!

You can also look into the Sear Diehard Platinum series batteries,they are made for Sears by Osyssey,same battery just gray instead off red.

Goglio704 · **Posted:** Thu Nov 12, 2009 11:21 pm

I've been running a Die Hard Platinum for about a year now. Very happy with it so far.

CHenry · **Posted:** Fri Nov 13, 2009 12:26 pm

My battery is an optima red top??

ATXKJ · **Posted:** Fri Nov 13, 2009 8:59 pm

CHenry wrote:

My battery is an optima red top??

The original on a CRD was an Optima almost a 'Red Top' - it was red - but it was produced to a lower spec
than the off the shelf Red Tops - mine still lasted 4 years - better than any other new car battery I've seen.
However some of them died quickly and were replaced with a Chrysler gel cell.

Big Montana · **Posted:** Sat Nov 14, 2009 5:07 pm

I was wrong when I said I still had a red top. I went and looked. Mine is a mopar. I had it replaced the first week of ownership with less than 300 miles. I thought they replaced it with a red top, but nope.

My red top was a turd.

Randy B · **Posted:** Wed Dec 09, 2009 5:35 pm

Build date 5/05 with 59000 miles. Went with the Red Top

journeyjim · **Posted:** Thu Dec 10, 2009 1:22 pm

'06 and original red top, and cranked over just fine this morning with a 0 temp out side.

bugnout · **Posted:** Sun Dec 13, 2009 9:29 pm

Slow cranking this week at 0 degrees F. Don't want to get stranded. Just replaced my Redtop out at 54 months. Replaced with another 34r Redtop. $155 from Amazon with free delivery and no tax. Local places were selling it for $20 more plus tax.

Terminals are not in the same spot as the stock battery, but had no problem getting them to fit, and probably could have gone with a 34 since both sides of the bottom plate are the same, would have fit just fine reversed.

dirtmover · **Posted:** Sat Dec 19, 2009 1:46 pm

dirtmover wrote:

Going into the fourth Ottawa winter with the original Optima. Still cranks like new even at -30C.

OK, looks like I spoke too soon. It's starting to show signs of failure. Sub zero starts are cranking for about twice as long as they did last winter!

CRD Joe · **Posted:** Sat Dec 19, 2009 1:56 pm

I needed a batt yesterday so I went to Sams and bought a yellow top Optima. :dead:

irunmiles · **Posted:** Sat Dec 19, 2009 2:36 pm

133k miles and the original redtop. Garage kept, so morning startups are not difficult. I probably just jinxed myself.

AZ CRD · **Posted:** Fri Dec 25, 2009 3:23 pm

Another original red top bites the dust . . . had to jump mine this morning in the frigid desert air (32F). :ALONE:

Lots of differing opinions in this thread about replacement options. Hmmmmm . . .

Is your CRD still using the original Optima red top battery?

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