LOST JEEPS :: View topic - Is this a Provent type of kit?

If there is nothing in the can its effectiveness will be minimal, I tried it and it still spews oil into the intake. May work well for a gasser but a diesel is an air hog, even at idle, The amount of blow-by is much greater on a diesel as well. The physics applied to the gasser world are not quite the same as a diesel. Nature of the beast.

3/4" is the size I used on my home made oil separator, glad I did not go any smaller.
One item Provent has that I want to add is a blow off valve to protect the engine seals from excess pressure in the event there is a clog up.
The Provent is more compact with a finer filter than my home made unit that uses coarse steel wool with a greater filter surface.
Since I don't have a blow off, I check mine every oil change, and drain it out.
My impression of the unit on eBay is that the hoses look too small as do the fittings.
Jeep Gassers run at a lower compression ratio plus (almost all ) do not have a turbo resulting in less blow by.
Gassers with out a turbo suck all the oil vapor directly into the intake where some lubricates the valves, where only the ash in the oil can create a problem.
We have a turbo that heats up the air by compressing it and then we cool it down with the inter cooler.
Sucking the oil mist into the turbo and blasting our hoses with hot oil causes them to fail prematurely.

RJM wrote:

I have put similar catch-cans on gassers that flowed significantly more air than a little 2.8L TD could ever hope to..... forced induction or not.

Even an empty chamber will work by causing a rapid decompression of the air causes the water and oil being carried in vapor form, to condense and fall to the chamber at the bottom of the can. The introduction of a filtration substrate only increases the surface area for condensation to occur, thereby "scrubbing" the air better.

There is no reason to have a pop-off valve on a catch can, unless that can can not withstand the even mild pressures found in a turbocharged system. I know the Provent is plastic, but I would hope they designed the can to withstand above normal boost pressures.

When properly installed the catch can will be most effective at idle, or near idle, when vac pressures are highest. Any time you are boosting the system, the PCV will slam shut to prevent the pressurization of the crankcase through the valve cover.

I would think that even in a Diesel, excessive blow-by would denote a failed seal somewhere in the rings, valves, or valve guides causing an overpressurization of the oiling system. Please correct me if I am wrong, but isn't excessive blow-by a BAD thing?

edited for clarity

Author:	flman [ Sun Oct 04, 2009 9:45 pm ]
Post subject:	Is this a Provent type of kit?
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/CHROME-O ... 06.c0.m245 I bet it would look nice under the hood.

Author:	Squeeto [ Sun Oct 04, 2009 10:27 pm ]
Post subject:
I agree. I wonder how easy it is to drain and the size of the hose.

Author:	RJM [ Mon Oct 05, 2009 9:03 am ]
Post subject:
Looking at the gears on the small clamps it is not 3/4" (smaller). this might cause to much restriction. Wonder whats inside the can??

Author:	Rich [ Mon Oct 05, 2009 10:26 am ]
Post subject:
If the fittings are the wrong size you can always change them. Any barbed hose fitting with a 3/4" MPT thread will fit the holes. These are a typical "catch can" found in the performance gasser world. There is nothing on the inside of the can. You splice the can between the PCV and the vacuum source. The air drawn through the system must pass through the can before reaching the IM. The can uses wonderful physics to remove the oil and water from the vapor coming off the underside of your valve cover. Higher end units have some sort of filtering substrate inside the unit to catch vapor that could move into the intake system. Always make sure you use your standard PCV in conjunction with this can. They work, and the clear plastic hose is to keep an eye on the level of gunk in the can. Draining is done through the bolt on the bottom. They are effective, and work well. I don't know how they do next to the Provent, but personal experience with the cheap kind tempts me to run one. Because this can will recirculate the cleaned air, nothing vents to atmosphere. This again is all I learned in the gasser world, does the Diesel world differ?

Author:	mackruss [ Mon Oct 05, 2009 10:48 am ]
Post subject:
Try one at that price but i suggest that you fit a clear hose on the return so you can monitor what exits that contraption

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Author:	RJM [ Mon Oct 05, 2009 11:01 am ]
Post subject:
If there is nothing in the can its effectiveness will be minimal, I tried it and it still spews oil into the intake. May work well for a gasser but a diesel is an air hog, even at idle, The amount of blow-by is much greater on a diesel as well. The physics applied to the gasser world are not quite the same as a diesel. Nature of the beast.

Author:	warp2diesel [ Mon Oct 05, 2009 11:04 am ]
Post subject:	X2 on minimal restriction
3/4" is the size I used on my home made oil separator, glad I did not go any smaller. One item Provent has that I want to add is a blow off valve to protect the engine seals from excess pressure in the event there is a clog up. The Provent is more compact with a finer filter than my home made unit that uses coarse steel wool with a greater filter surface. Since I don't have a blow off, I check mine every oil change, and drain it out. My impression of the unit on eBay is that the hoses look too small as do the fittings. Jeep Gassers run at a lower compression ratio plus (almost all ) do not have a turbo resulting in less blow by. Gassers with out a turbo suck all the oil vapor directly into the intake where some lubricates the valves, where only the ash in the oil can create a problem. We have a turbo that heats up the air by compressing it and then we cool it down with the inter cooler. Sucking the oil mist into the turbo and blasting our hoses with hot oil causes them to fail prematurely.

Author:	mackruss [ Mon Oct 05, 2009 11:05 am ]
Post subject:
RJM wrote: If there is nothing in the can its effectiveness will be minimal, I tried it and it still spews oil into the intake. May work well for a gasser but a diesel is an air hog, even at idle, The amount of blow-by is much greater on a diesel as well. The physics applied to the gasser world are not quite the same as a diesel. Nature of the beast. Unless you can pack it full of steel scrubbers.

Author:	RJM [ Mon Oct 05, 2009 11:12 am ]
Post subject:	Re: X2 on minimal restriction
warp2diesel wrote: 3/4" is the size I used on my home made oil separator, glad I did not go any smaller. One item Provent has that I want to add is a blow off valve to protect the engine seals from excess pressure in the event there is a clog up. The Provent is more compact with a finer filter than my home made unit that uses coarse steel wool with a greater filter surface. Since I don't have a blow off, I check mine every oil change, and drain it out. My impression of the unit on eBay is that the hoses look too small as do the fittings. Jeep Gassers run at a lower compression ratio plus (almost all ) do not have a turbo resulting in less blow by. Gassers with out a turbo suck all the oil vapor directly into the intake where some lubricates the valves, where only the ash in the oil can create a problem. We have a turbo that heats up the air by compressing it and then we cool it down with the inter cooler. Sucking the oil mist into the turbo and blasting our hoses with hot oil causes them to fail prematurely. I agree completely, even if you thread in a 3/8npt x 3/4barb whats the point. it does not increase the flow.

Author:	Rich [ Mon Oct 05, 2009 4:15 pm ]
Post subject:
RJM wrote: If there is nothing in the can its effectiveness will be minimal, I tried it and it still spews oil into the intake. May work well for a gasser but a diesel is an air hog, even at idle, The amount of blow-by is much greater on a diesel as well. The physics applied to the gasser world are not quite the same as a diesel. Nature of the beast. I have put similar catch-cans on gassers that flowed significantly more air than a little 2.8L TD could ever hope to..... forced induction or not. Even an empty chamber will work by causing a rapid decompression of the air causes the water and oil being carried in vapor form, to condense and fall to the chamber at the bottom of the can. The introduction of a filtration substrate only increases the surface area for condensation to occur, thereby "scrubbing" the air better. There is no reason to have a pop-off valve on a catch can, unless that can can not withstand the even mild pressures found in a turbocharged system. I know the Provent is plastic, but I would hope they designed the can to withstand above normal boost pressures. When properly installed the catch can will be most effective at idle, or near idle, when vac pressures are highest. Any time you are boosting the system, the PCV will slam shut to prevent the pressurization of the crankcase through the valve cover. I would think that even in a Diesel, excessive blow-by would denote a failed seal somewhere in the rings, valves, or valve guides causing an overpressurization of the oiling system. Please correct me if I am wrong, but isn't excessive blow-by a BAD thing? edited for clarity

Author:	warp2diesel [ Mon Oct 05, 2009 5:40 pm ]
Post subject:	The only diesels that opetrated with a vacuum...
Rich wrote: RJM wrote: If there is nothing in the can its effectiveness will be minimal, I tried it and it still spews oil into the intake. May work well for a gasser but a diesel is an air hog, even at idle, The amount of blow-by is much greater on a diesel as well. The physics applied to the gasser world are not quite the same as a diesel. Nature of the beast. I have put similar catch-cans on gassers that flowed significantly more air than a little 2.8L TD could ever hope to..... forced induction or not. Even an empty chamber will work by causing a rapid decompression of the air causes the water and oil being carried in vapor form, to condense and fall to the chamber at the bottom of the can. The introduction of a filtration substrate only increases the surface area for condensation to occur, thereby "scrubbing" the air better. There is no reason to have a pop-off valve on a catch can, unless that can can not withstand the even mild pressures found in a turbocharged system. I know the Provent is plastic, but I would hope they designed the can to withstand above normal boost pressures. When properly installed the catch can will be most effective at idle, or near idle, when vac pressures are highest. Any time you are boosting the system, the PCV will slam shut to prevent the pressurization of the crankcase through the valve cover. I would think that even in a Diesel, excessive blow-by would denote a failed seal somewhere in the rings, valves, or valve guides causing an overpressurization of the oiling system. Please correct me if I am wrong, but isn't excessive blow-by a BAD thing? edited for clarity Were the old with a big diaphragm hooked up to an inline pump. Open the throttle plate the pump went to full injection, when the engine reved too high, the pump would reduce the fuel rate due to the restriction by the venturi, close the throttle plate, the engine would idle down and have a vacuum. Problems with this configuration were that it would send out a big cloud of smoke and trying to turbocharge an engine like this was a big problem. Mercedes used the throttle plate control system for many years as did others, but now days even the Little Black Buggies we see at the side of the Road in some parts of the country use tapered roller bearings in the wheels. Modern diesels only have some type of throttle to jack in the EGR. With urea coming on board, EGR in diesels should go the way of the wooden bearing buggy wheels. The blow off valve is to relieve the crank case pressure if the filter media in the Provent clogs or ices up, not to save the Provent. The only way to vent the crancase on a turbo diesel is into the turbo intake, oil separators greatly reduce the oil mist. I have never seen a stock oil separator (like the puck on our CRDs) that I would even call adequate let alone good.

Author:	RJM [ Mon Oct 05, 2009 7:31 pm ]
Post subject:
Diesels pull a full volume of air even at idle, gassers do not, the trick with getting the oil to condense properly in this engine is slow it down by causing a divergence or deviation (some sort of filter media) and cool it off (in my case re-locating the unit and extending the plumbing) If the blowby vapours are rushing through the canister at a high rate it has very little chance to condense properly.

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