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quick heads-up on tire size and "shift on the fly"
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Author:  Big Montana [ Thu Nov 19, 2009 11:49 pm ]
Post subject:  quick heads-up on tire size and "shift on the fly"
I couldn't get my selec-trac transfercase with the 2wd - 4wd part time - 4wd full time - N - 4wd Low to shift on the fly for quite some time. I had the original tires on the front and tires with 30 thousand miles LESS on the rear. My transfer case would get stuck in 4wd part time while trying to switch over it. I got wheel hop and everything. It would take forward and backward driving on a dirt road to break it out.

Two dealers told me to get new tires, and I called BS! Well what do you know, I put new tires on the Jeep and it shifts easy with no problems. Even on dry pavement.

The small difference (and it was small) seems to be the only reason my tc would get stuck.

I hope this is helpful.
Author:  tjkj2002 [ Fri Nov 20, 2009 12:06 am ]
Post subject: 
Thought that was common knowledge,should be in your owners manual also.
Author:  Big Montana [ Fri Nov 20, 2009 12:17 am ]
Post subject: 
Yeah ok, but there wasn't much of a difference in tread. Just as there are differences of opinion on my current question about diesel of gas for short drives, there were many people that told me that there was no way such a small difference in tire size should matter. I was sure that there was something wrong with my tc, and I was sure the dealership just didn't care. They checked many things and claimed there was nothing wrong. I thought they just wanted to sell me new rubber.

That was my only purpose for this thread. If your shift on the fly is giving you grief, it could be your tires.
Author:  tjkj2002 [ Fri Nov 20, 2009 12:21 am ]
Post subject: 
Big Montana wrote:
Yeah ok, but there wasn't much of a difference in tread. Just as there are differences of opinion on my current question about diesel of gas for short drives, there were many people that told me that there was no way such a small difference in tire size should matter. I was sure that there was something wrong with my tc, and I was sure the dealership just didn't care. They checked many things and claimed there was nothing wrong. I thought they just wanted to sell me new rubber.

That was my only purpose for this thread. If your shift on the fly is giving you grief, it could be your tires.
I work for a major tire company franchise(I rarely touch tires though) and our policy is a AWD vehicle or any vehicle with a full time 4wd option that the tires should not exceed 3/32"-4/32" between all 4 tires.If you have 30,000miles on your tires and one get's a flat and is non-repairable you must buy 4 tires,we can not sell you just one tire,or even just 2.

Oh and having 2 tires with 30,000miles more then the other 2 will have alot less tread depth.
Author:  Big Montana [ Fri Nov 20, 2009 12:34 am ]
Post subject: 
Well those stats are great. It goes one step farther than what I am trying to say. That's exactly what happened to me. I blew one tire and put the unused spare and new tire on the back. My eye didn't think the tread difference was too different, but the measurement you point out is obviously beyond my eye's ability.

As someone who knows a lot about teaching English and not alot about Tyres, I hope this thread helps someone to realize their KJ isn't broken when they replace a 30,000 mile tire and their tc doesn't work like it once did.
Author:  mikey1273 [ Fri Nov 20, 2009 12:52 am ]
Post subject: 
Yeah that is true for cars and trucks with 4 wheel or full time 4 wheel drive. The same was true for my previous Outback sedan, and every all wheel drive subaru ever made. My Aunt had a Lecacy that had a weird noise eminateng from the under the car (drivetrain) when you would make tight turns. turns out pun intended, that she got some tires slashed and walmart tire center only replaced those two and put the new ones on the back. I called Matt our subaru mechanic to confirm this would cause that and since it was only a week since she got the first two, we sent her back for more tires. when they replaced those others, no more noise. THe thing with those subaru's that we don't have to worry about with our jeeps is we can't damage our transfer cases as fast if we stay in 2 wheel with different tires. with the subaru system there is no choice its automatic all wheel and thats it. Having tires of with a difference in circumference greater than the tollerence causes things not to engage proper for us and for the subaru's it wears out the clutches in the all wheel drive system and that is expensive to fix.

I think tho I may be wrong but doing the same to a jeep with select-trac in full time mode would be close to the same damage as it would with a subie, both use a system of clutches to transfer power and equilize minor differences in tire rotation caused by things like making a turn on pavement.
Author:  geordi [ Fri Nov 20, 2009 12:53 am ]
Post subject: 
TJKJ wrote:
I work for a major tire company franchise(I rarely touch tires though) and our policy is a AWD vehicle or any vehicle with a full time 4wd option that the tires should not exceed 3/32"-4/32" between all 4 tires.If you have 30,000miles on your tires and one get's a flat and is non-repairable you must buy 4 tires,we can not sell you just one tire,or even just 2.


Out of curiosity, under that policy... Is the customer forced to shell out full price to replace the undamaged tires, or are they actually pro-rated for the values of the treads?

BTW: I'm currently running 3 of my 215/85/16 BF Goodrich tires (which have never been rotated in 40k miles) and the Goodyear stock spare (IIRC 225/75?) on the right front. I put that on b/c of a tpms glitch a while back, and just haven't changed it back yet.

According to all this anecdotal evidence, I should have remained stuck when I stopped in a mud pit that used to be my front lawn and couldn't get out. I shifted into part-time, and drove out, and FELT the torque steer once I got on the pavement, so I know it was working. It also shifted out when stopped without a problem. I have no explanation as to why it went so easily since the tires are quite different in sizes, but I have always shifted the TC when stopped and the trans in neutral. Maybe this allows it to set in without missing?
Author:  Boiler [ Fri Nov 20, 2009 12:55 am ]
Post subject: 
This is exactly why I do a 5 tire rotation.
Author:  Big Montana [ Fri Nov 20, 2009 1:03 am ]
Post subject: 
I drove a 95 Legacy for 7 years. I guess I'm luck I never wrecked a tire. I rotated every other oil change and all was good.

I had started a 5 tire rotation on the Jeep, but I stopped real early. Now that I think about it. I could have put the new tire on the back and had 4 equal tires. That's a good tip.
Author:  tjkj2002 [ Fri Nov 20, 2009 1:04 am ]
Post subject: 
geordi wrote:
Out of curiosity, under that policy... Is the customer forced to shell out full price to replace the undamaged tires, or are they actually pro-rated for the values of the treads?

If you purchased the tires from us with tire warranty and/or road hazard warranty we will prorate the tires,if you come in with a different brand of tire then we sell and warranty you pay full price for all the tires.
Author:  mikey1273 [ Fri Nov 20, 2009 1:11 am ]
Post subject: 
Quote:
Out of curiosity, under that policy... Is the customer forced to shell out full price to replace the undamaged tires, or are they actually pro-rated for the values of the treads?


I doubt they would give you any credit for the undamaged tires at most chain tire places. maybe if you go to an independant dealer that also sells used tires they may give you something for the tires they can resell.

Since we bring this out I have my stock 235/70/16 as a spare and the others have been upgraded to 245/70/16 I should buy a new tire for the spare and rotate it in? or not or go find a very nice used tire in my new size to carry as a spare
Author:  geordi [ Fri Nov 20, 2009 1:44 am ]
Post subject: 
Reasons why I don't go to the chain places. I'm not a fan of being told "it's our policy to tell you to bend over and smile" when I have 3 tires that are perfectly good, and only need one. I quit buying tires at Costco b/c of that stupidity. I had a FWD Taurus that only needed 2 tires (it ate the fronts constantly) and those fools insisted that the new ones could ONLY be installed on the rear, 'b/c of the risk of hydroplaning and spinning out' in a car with UNPOWERED rear wheels... Yea, put LESS tread on the front, and it will be less likely to hydroplane. Idiots.

The next attempt with a different car, I was told that a Lincoln Mark VII couldn't get the 225/75/16 tires from Kirkland for $45 each, it HAD to have the 225/75/16 tires from Michelin for $140 each... Because the Kirkland tires were only speed rated to 120 mph, the Michelins were Z rated to 149 and that is what "originally" came on the car. Never mind that the car wasn't capable of EITHER speed. Idiots.

Obviously, the next time I need tires, I will need to rent a different car and just bring in the bare rim or rims. Because it is MY POLICY to not be wasteful to the environment, OR terribly wasteful to my wallet. I'm perfectly capable of evaluating ALL of the codes on a tire and deciding if I want to run it... Including the DOT numbering. Can many people say that? When the "policy" of the tire shop is to protect their own arses by layering themselves in my money tho... That is where I draw the line. Or when the policy runs counter to common sense, based on the vehicle's own designs to again enrich the tire shop... That is also STUPID.

Amazingly, the shop that sold me the UPSIZED and "commercial" grade BF Goodrich tires without so much as a complaint after I confirmed that "yes, these are the exact tires I'm looking for, and they will fit" was SAM'S CLUB. With all the silliness from Costco and Tire Kingdom I've experienced... I'm shocked that they did it at all, without insisting that I could ONLY install the Goodyear p-rated tires it originally came with. That is now Costco's policy - ONLY OEM tires.
Author:  mikey1273 [ Fri Nov 20, 2009 2:13 am ]
Post subject: 
My recent dealing with Sam's club went like Costco did for you.

I wanted BFG longtrail in 245/70/16 @ $548 and change for 4 with mounting,balance and all the garbage they make you buy. the guy at the counter told me after looking in his little book that I can only have 225/75/16 as that is what came as standard equipment. I had the stock tires then those were the optional 235/70/16 they would not even sell me the tires I wanted in that size either. he pointed to the book and said the standard is all we can install that is out policy. I just said "well, that is very nice for you but your policy lost you a sale today" then I walked out.

I did find a great small town dealer just north of Dover the suburban town I work in that sold me the size I wanted in a great tire too. its not BFG but I like these Hercules tires. The guy even agreed with me that the 245s were going to be great on my jeep. They beat Sam's price on the smaller standard stock size too and I can go back anytime and have my tires balanced and rotated for $1 each.
Author:  ColoradoCRD [ Fri Nov 20, 2009 9:13 am ]
Post subject: 
I had a matching set of four tires, properly rotated. I experienced a sidewall puncture which could not be fixed. I was aware of the requirement to have tires the same size. FYI, I avoided the cost of replacing all four tires by buying one tire from TireRack. TireRack has a shaving service so that a tire can be shaved down to match existing thread depth.
Author:  ihatemybike [ Fri Nov 20, 2009 9:26 am ]
Post subject: 
For a chain Discount Tire must rock then. When we told them we wanted 245/75R16 tires for Eugene, they looked at the computer and said that's not a stock tire size. Just said, "It's lifted." and they were happy to put them on.
Author:  Joe Romas [ Fri Nov 20, 2009 9:36 am ]
Post subject: 
Both my under 30K miles 06 JK and 2000 XJ with 149K have this transfer case. With 4 new matching tires the XJ exhibits the symptom as did my KJ the day I bought it at 9 miles.. :cry: Yes having all four tires the same will help but it's a design problem on our Select-Track transfer case :wink:

If you "blip" the skinney peddle it will help getting it out of 4 part time but with drive by wire the crd won't "blip" :oops:
I find when going from 4 full time back to 2 that pausing in 4 part time for 50-100 feet of driving it will them go into 2 high :D
Author:  tjkj2002 [ Fri Nov 20, 2009 9:45 am ]
Post subject: 
geordi wrote:
Reasons why I don't go to the chain places. I'm not a fan of being told "it's our policy to tell you to bend over and smile" when I have 3 tires that are perfectly good, and only need one. I quit buying tires at Costco b/c of that stupidity. I had a FWD Taurus that only needed 2 tires (it ate the fronts constantly) and those fools insisted that the new ones could ONLY be installed on the rear, 'b/c of the risk of hydroplaning and spinning out' in a car with UNPOWERED rear wheels... Yea, put LESS tread on the front, and it will be less likely to hydroplane. Idiots.

The next attempt with a different car, I was told that a Lincoln Mark VII couldn't get the 225/75/16 tires from Kirkland for $45 each, it HAD to have the 225/75/16 tires from Michelin for $140 each... Because the Kirkland tires were only speed rated to 120 mph, the Michelins were Z rated to 149 and that is what "originally" came on the car. Never mind that the car wasn't capable of EITHER speed. Idiots.

Obviously, the next time I need tires, I will need to rent a different car and just bring in the bare rim or rims. Because it is MY POLICY to not be wasteful to the environment, OR terribly wasteful to my wallet. I'm perfectly capable of evaluating ALL of the codes on a tire and deciding if I want to run it... Including the DOT numbering. Can many people say that? When the "policy" of the tire shop is to protect their own arses by layering themselves in my money tho... That is where I draw the line. Or when the policy runs counter to common sense, based on the vehicle's own designs to again enrich the tire shop... That is also STUPID.

Amazingly, the shop that sold me the UPSIZED and "commercial" grade BF Goodrich tires without so much as a complaint after I confirmed that "yes, these are the exact tires I'm looking for, and they will fit" was SAM'S CLUB. With all the silliness from Costco and Tire Kingdom I've experienced... I'm shocked that they did it at all, without insisting that I could ONLY install the Goodyear p-rated tires it originally came with. That is now Costco's policy - ONLY OEM tires.
Those policies are there for the companies liability because most of the general public are rather stupid and make unsafe choices.If we sell you one tire only that has 10/32" more tread the the other 3 on your AWD/full time 4wd vehicle and it destroys the t-case who are you going to blame? Not yourself for being stupid.Also if you put the wrong load range/speed rated tire on your vehicle and you have a blowout you are you going to sue? The company I work for also does not sell used tires,to much liability. Now for the policy of mounting the 2 new tire on the rear I don't agree with and does not make sense but at least you have the choice to have those 2 new tires mounted on the front but have to sign a simple waiver taking any blame from use.Basically they all are trying to reduce those stupid lawsuits that people seem to win for being stupid and then the company has to raise prices to cover those 100 million dollar payouts to idiots and everyone loves increased prices don't they?
Author:  butcher_block [ Fri Nov 20, 2009 11:20 am ]
Post subject: 
some shops can "turn down" a new tire to make it the same as the rest

if you need jsut one
Author:  grywlfbg [ Fri Nov 20, 2009 3:26 pm ]
Post subject: 
geordi wrote:
According to all this anecdotal evidence, I should have remained stuck when I stopped in a mud pit that used to be my front lawn and couldn't get out. I shifted into part-time, and drove out, and FELT the torque steer once I got on the pavement, so I know it was working. It also shifted out when stopped without a problem. I have no explanation as to why it went so easily since the tires are quite different in sizes, but I have always shifted the TC when stopped and the trans in neutral. Maybe this allows it to set in without missing?

The key phrase there is "when stopped". The problem when the tires are diff sizes are that the shafts are turning at diff rates and it can't shift between 2WD and 4WD "on the fly". Not a problem if you stop to shift.
Author:  dritchie [ Fri Nov 20, 2009 3:48 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: quick heads-up on tire size and "shift on the fly&q
Big Montana wrote:
I couldn't get my selec-trac transfercase with the 2wd - 4wd part time - 4wd full time - N - 4wd Low to shift on the fly for quite some time. I had the original tires on the front and tires with 30 thousand miles LESS on the rear. My transfer case would get stuck in 4wd part time while trying to switch over it. I got wheel hop and everything. It would take forward and backward driving on a dirt road to break it out.

Two dealers told me to get new tires, and I called BS! Well what do you know, I put new tires on the Jeep and it shifts easy with no problems. Even on dry pavement.

The small difference (and it was small) seems to be the only reason my tc would get stuck.

I hope this is helpful.



Thanks for the "Heads Up" big Montana.

Dave
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