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Antifreeze/coolant
http://www.lostjeeps.com/forum/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=48895		 Page 1 of 2
Author:  JIMMY JEEP [ Sat Jan 02, 2010 8:29 am ]
Post subject:  Antifreeze/coolant
Hi, at work at moment so I have no access to manuals handbooks ect, does anyone know correct type and amount of antifreeze in litres please the kj 2.8 takes, so i can pick some up on way home and change old stuff as were due to have a cold snap soon. Thanks
Author:  ATXKJ [ Sat Jan 02, 2010 8:52 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Antifreeze/coolant
It needs to be a HOAT - Hybrid Organic Acid Technology
Which over here is Zerex G05.
http://www.valvoline.com/products/brands/zerex/antifreeze/42

Capacity 12.5 Liters
* Includes heater and coolant recovery bottle filled to MAX level
Author:  JIMMY JEEP [ Sat Jan 02, 2010 10:11 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Antifreeze/coolant
Thanks for your quick reply, it appears valvoline don't sell some of there products in Europe , so it's either stealership on Monday or find a stockist for Comma xstreme G05 which appears to have same ingredients and is apparently rcommended by chyrsler , having to conduct searches on I phone . Thanks again for info
Author:  isx2009 [ Sat Jan 02, 2010 11:57 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Antifreeze/coolant
Hybrid Organic Additive Technology not Acid. Just to clear things up. Does anyone know what this stuff is. My stealership had no idea what I was talking about when I asked them. They said they just stock the regular extended life coolant. Is it 100% necessary to use the HOAT. coolant. Why can't they just make things simple anymore.
Author:  Joe Romas [ Sat Jan 02, 2010 12:50 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Antifreeze/coolant
isx2009 wrote:
Hybrid Organic Additive Technology not Acid. Just to clear things up. Does anyone know what this stuff is. My stealership had no idea what I was talking about when I asked them. They said they just stock the regular extended life coolant. Is it 100% necessary to use the HOAT. coolant. Why can't they just make things simple anymore.



As mentioned Zerex markets G5 Chrysler formula in the US and I've read that NAPA carries it :mrgreen: I bought mine at Pep Boys :lol: I know this will not help the original poster and even in the US you'll not find it at most big box store Auto parts or general merchandise :cry: Try finding VW G12 fluid in the US for a real challange. You'll find it at the VW dealer :-)r
http://www.valvoline.com/products/brand ... ifreeze/42

As for the ACID here is what they say at the listed site what HOAT stands for :pepper:

Utilizes hybrid organic acid technology
Joe
Author:  CATCRD [ Sat Jan 02, 2010 1:13 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Antifreeze/coolant
isx2009 wrote:
Hybrid Organic Additive Technology not Acid. Just to clear things up. Does anyone know what this stuff is. My stealership had no idea what I was talking about when I asked them. They said they just stock the regular extended life coolant. Is it 100% necessary to use the HOAT. coolant. Why can't they just make things simple anymore.


Here in colorado I've found G-05 at Checker.
Author:  LibertyCRD [ Sat Jan 02, 2010 1:43 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Antifreeze/coolant
isx2009 wrote:
Hybrid Organic Additive Technology not Acid. Just to clear things up. Does anyone know what this stuff is. My stealership had no idea what I was talking about when I asked them. They said they just stock the regular extended life coolant. Is it 100% necessary to use the HOAT. coolant. Why can't they just make things simple anymore.



If your dealership doesn't know what HOAT coolant is, it's time to go elsewhere. Because the owner's manual on almost ALL Chrysler vehicles specifies it....and the Mopar coolant they sell has it on the label. :ROTFL:
Author:  ATXKJ [ Sat Jan 02, 2010 5:42 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Antifreeze/coolant
Quote:
Overview

Zerex® G-05 is the original full chemistry in newer Ford & Daimler Chrysler vehicles. Its Hybrid Organic Acid Technology (HOAT) chemistry combines the best of conventional and organic acid-based chemistry to provide the ultimate protection against rust and corrosion.
Author:  isx2009 [ Sat Jan 02, 2010 5:54 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Antifreeze/coolant
Sorry about the acid word mix up I was just going of what the owners manual says and it says additive. Anyway, about the dealer not knowing about the HOAT coolant that is why I do not take the CRD to the dealer for anything. Thanks for all the input!
Author:  kdlewis1975 [ Sun Jan 03, 2010 9:56 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Antifreeze/coolant
isx2009 wrote:
Sorry about the acid word mix up I was just going of what the owners manual says and it says additive. Anyway, about the dealer not knowing about the HOAT coolant that is why I do not take the CRD to the dealer for anything. Thanks for all the input!


Due EGR surgery this weekend, I wasn't able to remove the coolant lines from the EGR as they were baked on pretty good. After cutting them, the coolant reservoir promptly drained...to my surprise. ...watch out for that.

NAPA does sell the Zerex G-05. There's been a lot of debate on there pertaining to the correct antifreeze for these CRDs. Because it's a wet-lined engine, the general feeling appears to be that one should use what's used in over-the-road trucks. Whatever you do, avoid putting the green stuff in there. What you buy should be orange or red in color.

The acid vs. additive mistake is an easy one to make because of the ingredients list. Among others, there are ethylene glycol, 2-ethylhexanoic acid, and potassium hydroxide. The 2-ethylhexanoic acid is a weak acid like the acetic acid that makes up vinegar. Adding the potassium hydroxide in there removes the proton to leave the 2-ethylhexanoate anion floating around to act as a weak base.
Author:  tjkj2002 [ Sun Jan 03, 2010 10:57 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Antifreeze/coolant
kdlewis1975 wrote:
isx2009 wrote:
Sorry about the acid word mix up I was just going of what the owners manual says and it says additive. Anyway, about the dealer not knowing about the HOAT coolant that is why I do not take the CRD to the dealer for anything. Thanks for all the input!


Due EGR surgery this weekend, I wasn't able to remove the coolant lines from the EGR as they were baked on pretty good. After cutting them, the coolant reservoir promptly drained...to my surprise. ...watch out for that.

NAPA does sell the Zerex G-05. There's been a lot of debate on there pertaining to the correct antifreeze for these CRDs. Because it's a wet-lined engine, the general feeling appears to be that one should use what's used in over-the-road trucks. Whatever you do, avoid putting the green stuff in there. What you buy should be orange or red in color.

The acid vs. additive mistake is an easy one to make because of the ingredients list. Among others, there are ethylene glycol, 2-ethylhexanoic acid, and potassium hydroxide. The 2-ethylhexanoic acid is a weak acid like the acetic acid that makes up vinegar. Adding the potassium hydroxide in there removes the proton to leave the 2-ethylhexanoate anion floating around to act as a weak base.

HOAT coolant is based off of Ethylene Glycol,you can mix the 2 without harm.

Oh and just because the coolant is "green","orange",or "red" does not mean anything today,Zerex GO5 is yellow,and there is blue coolant and purple coolant also and it's all just a dye.Almost all the "green" coolant sold at autopart stores is not Ethylene Glycol but is in fact OAT coolant dyed green(OAT coolant is Dexacool).Any coolant labeled as "universal" or "all makes/models" is OAT coolant(Dexacool).
Author:  kdlewis1975 [ Sun Jan 03, 2010 11:33 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Antifreeze/coolant
tjkj2002 wrote:
HOAT coolant is based off of Ethylene Glycol,you can mix the 2 without harm.

Oh and just because the coolant is "green","orange",or "red" does not mean anything today,Zerex GO5 is yellow,and there is blue coolant and purple coolant also and it's all just a dye.Almost all the "green" coolant sold at autopart stores is not Ethylene Glycol but is in fact OAT coolant dyed green(OAT coolant is Dexacool).Any coolant labeled as "universal" or "all makes/models" is OAT coolant(Dexacool).



In general, I think all automobile coolants are based on either ethylene glycol or propylene glycol. The chemicals themselves are colorless and miscible with one another as well as with water. The issue isn't with mixing the glycols. It seems that many of the discussions/arguments are whether the additives in the various technologies are adequate. I was under the impression that the dyes are intended to denote the particular class of additives used in the formulation.
Author:  tjkj2002 [ Sun Jan 03, 2010 11:54 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Antifreeze/coolant
kdlewis1975 wrote:
tjkj2002 wrote:
HOAT coolant is based off of Ethylene Glycol,you can mix the 2 without harm.

Oh and just because the coolant is "green","orange",or "red" does not mean anything today,Zerex GO5 is yellow,and there is blue coolant and purple coolant also and it's all just a dye.Almost all the "green" coolant sold at autopart stores is not Ethylene Glycol but is in fact OAT coolant dyed green(OAT coolant is Dexacool).Any coolant labeled as "universal" or "all makes/models" is OAT coolant(Dexacool).



In general, I think all automobile coolants are based on either ethylene glycol or propylene glycol. The chemicals themselves are colorless and miscible with one another as well as with water. The issue isn't with mixing the glycols. It seems that many of the discussions/arguments are whether the additives in the various technologies are adequate. I was under the impression that the dyes are intended to denote the particular class of additives used in the formulation.

You can't mix OAT coolants(Dexacool) and HOAT coolants,big no-no.Propylene Glycol is strictly forbidden in newer Fords,and newer Fords are speced for the same HOAT coolants as newer Jeeps.The color of the coolant is strictly up to the marketing person and/or automaker it's going to.
Author:  kdlewis1975 [ Mon Jan 04, 2010 12:17 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Antifreeze/coolant
I ran across this, what may be a handy table, linked from wikipedia: http://www.eetcorp.com/antifreeze/Coolants_matrix.pdf At the very least, it generalizes the technologies used in various coolants.

It seems that there may be a bit of rhyme and reason for the color as it seems that some of the manufacturers follow a loose standard, but as you (tjkj2002) say, one shouldn't bank on it.
Author:  Joe Romas [ Mon Jan 04, 2010 8:56 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Antifreeze/coolant
This page has some interesting things about G5 coolant and cylinder liners are mentioned :D
http://www.whitfieldoil.com/www/docs/16 ... reeze.html

You'll note that the color varies by the vehicle it's in. I also once found that John Deer uses it too in some applications and had yet a different color :D I don't remember the color but I don't think it was "John Deer Green" :BANANA:
Author:  NJCRD [ Mon Jan 04, 2010 10:20 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Antifreeze/coolant
Just to add my :2cents:
I had my cooling system flushed this summer and have run a conventional glycol mix with water. 12,000 + miles and no issues. The flushing really did get rid of a lot of "junk" in the system, I'm guessing its sand and debris from casting?
I plan on flushing every 2 years anyway so I don't anticipate any damage. If you plan on running long intervals, heck it's your truck and your money do as you please.
Author:  ATXKJ [ Mon Jan 04, 2010 10:53 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Antifreeze/coolant
Well - unless you have the R&D facilities to support 'do as you please' for long engine life I'd recommend follow the Manufacturer's recommendation, it may be overkill - but it has data supporting it.

I wouldn't want to get to 150,000 miles and find out I corroded an engine block because I used the wrong coolant.

Now I can read the labels and find something that's cheaper but chemically the same - that's reasonable.

FYI - all of the antifreeze mixtures discussed are 'glycols' - it just depends on whether your base molecule is a 2 carbon Ethyl group or a 3 carbon Propyl group.

and the Acid vs Additive question is because Zerox describes G05 as an Acid and the Factory Service manual says Additive - in this case the Additive is an Acid (although they don't specify which organic acid and there are several probably didn't want to confuse people by mentioning the word acid in the cooling system) as noted several times the colors are dye's added to encourage buying dealer specific products so, read the labels.
Author:  NJCRD [ Mon Jan 04, 2010 11:04 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Antifreeze/coolant
How the heck would you corrode an engine block with the same green stuff thts been in engines for 100 years? Its great lubrication and the downside is environmentaly its not so good and you need to flush every 2 years or so. Just remember the manufactures label with dexcool and how well that did.
Author:  TAHOE [ Mon Jan 04, 2010 1:35 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Antifreeze/coolant
tjkj2002 wrote:
HOAT coolant is based off of Ethylene Glycol,you can mix the 2 without harm.

Oh and just because the coolant is "green","orange",or "red" does not mean anything today,Zerex GO5 is yellow,and there is blue coolant and purple coolant also and it's all just a dye.Almost all the "green" coolant sold at autopart stores is not Ethylene Glycol but is in fact OAT coolant dyed green(OAT coolant is Dexaclog).Any coolant labeled as "universal" or "all makes/models" is OAT coolant(Dexacrud).

Fixed it for ya :mrgreen:

NJCRD wrote:
Just remember the manufactures label with dexcool and how well that did.

I sure hope that's sarcasim..... Dexacrap is such garbage!!! I flush 3 of my vehicles of that crap immediately. My brother in law has replaced more than his far share of intake gaskets and WP from that junk. I just redid the intake gaskets on my Tahoe @ 119K, looked like maybe someone had been in there before I got it.

I replaced a WP on my nephew's 05 Libby when it had about 65K on it. Not knowing back then any better, we flushed system and replaced with good old green stuff. He's going on 120K now and not a problem. My :2cents:
Author:  NJCRD [ Mon Jan 04, 2010 1:58 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Antifreeze/coolant
Total sarcasim. The new stuff is too new for me to worry about and let's all see how well it lasts till something newer and better is recomended. Dexcool is junk, yet at the time and for how many years after was it promoted as a wonder coolant? You needed to have it and if you had an older vehicle refill with decool, blah blah. Good to see someone else running normal antifreeze.
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