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**CRD OWNERS READ** TCM and F37
http://www.lostjeeps.com/forum/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=48911		 Page 1 of 2
Author:  Rich [ Sat Jan 02, 2010 8:43 pm ]
Post subject:  **CRD OWNERS READ** TCM and F37
Myself and others have found the TCM was not updated when the F37 TSB/Recall was done on our CRDs. Joe Romas mentioned this failure to complete the update was for various reasons, but mostly because not following the amended instructions for the work would result in the vehicle's battery going dead and/or bricking the TCM.

My suggestion is this, if you have not yet verified your TCM as being F37 or not, please use the information below to verify. I have a feeling many are driving around with a TCM that was not updated like I have been.

I would also like to hear from someone that knows the DRBIII, with information on how to protect the TCMs that have not been flashed. When is the update completed, is it automatic, or is it an option that must be chosen during any work with the DRB?

Good luck... and post your results!

Instructions;

1. With your engine and trans at operating temp, accelerate at a moderate pace from a stop to 60mph indicated speed on the speedometer. It does NOT matter if your speedo is accurate or not, as the TCM uses the same speed signal as the ECU/Gauges for shift points.

2. Once you reach 60mph, hold the speed and look at your tachometer.
- If tachometer is at 1700-1800rpm - NOT F37
- If tachometer is at 1900+ - IS F37

This video shows a TCM WITHOUT the F37. Notice the 4-5 shift at 0:13 in the video at ~57mph on the speedo.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FKCqfML5 ... r_embedded




-old post

So there are a TON of threads out there about F37, and where the shift points are. So rather than trying to describe exactly when my trans shifts, I decided to shoot a vid and get some feed back.

http://www.youtube.com/v/FKCqfML5V2Y&hl

Does this look like an F37 free TCM to you?

'05 Libby CRD
Build date 2/16/05 @ 0600 (according to MDH code)
factory sized tires
jeep.com shows F37 was completed.
Author:  stoutdog [ Sun Jan 03, 2010 12:04 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: TCM and F37
Rich wrote:
So there are a TON of threads out there about F37, and where the shift points are. So rather than trying to describe exactly when my trans shifts, I decided to shoot a vid and get some feed back.

http://www.youtube.com/v/FKCqfML5V2Y&hl

Does this look like an F37 free TCM to you?

'05 Libby CRD
Build date 2/16/05 @ 0600 (according to MDH code)
factory sized tires
jeep.com shows F37 was completed.


It looks like your Jeep was about to shift one more time when you cut the video off, unless your speedometer is actually accurate. Mine reads about 3mph high, so a speedo reading of 64mph = 1800rpm. You were closer to 2000.

If I'm wrong, and it had already shifted to 5th lockup, then you have an unflashed TCM.
Author:  Rich [ Sun Jan 03, 2010 12:11 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: TCM and F37
According to my GPS, the speedo is only about 1 mph off from actual speed.
Author:  Rich [ Mon Jan 04, 2010 1:17 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: TCM and F37
Anybody else have an idea?
Author:  PhoenixCRD [ Mon Jan 04, 2010 1:38 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: TCM and F37
I think a better way of telling if the F37 has been done is watching the tach climb to about 2600 rpm and holding fairly steady during the first three shifts with moderate acceleration. If I remember correctly the higher revs were to compensate for the high low-end torque and low pump pressure at lower rpm.

Gary
Author:  Joe Romas [ Mon Jan 04, 2010 5:12 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: TCM and F37
I have not looked at your video but it has been mentioned it looked like it was going to shift when you stopped recording. It's very hard to determine when these transmissions are doing what. With your transmission fluid at operating temperature determine for us as near as possible the exact engine RPMS at as near as possible to a steady 60 mph from a complete stop not going over 60 mph according to your speedometer.

But regardless of what you think about the accurcy of your speedometer compared to your GPS or tire size your shift points will be according to your SPEEDOMETER in the late fifties or early sixties. The TCM has no idea of your actual speed just what it's been told by the onboard speed sensor. It's not rocket science :mrgreen: Another way is to find someone with a vag-com setup with CAN capability running the current software to read the part numbers of your ECM and TCM and the last two positions that are alpha charectors tell you the flash level. Then look at the chart in the TECH section. You can't depend on what tags dealers did or did not put on them. Adding to the confusion is when dealers were replacing torque converters and flashing computers on a weekly basis for many owners many TCM's locked up during the long flash time and needed to be replaced :shock: So some became gun shy and started avoiding flashing them. That problem turned out to be cause by the battery voltage dropping below a certain level during the flash. The December 06 copy of the F37 instructions I have says to keep a battery charger connected during the flashing :mrgreen:

UPDATE: I just went for a ride in the snow and rush hour traffic for you :jester: So if you do as I mentioned above your RPM's will be either 1700 or 1900 at 60 per the speedometer. If you you get 1700 rpms then you have NOT been F37 flashed :pepper: But if you get 1900 you have been :banghead: Read this part carefully, mine has had the f37 flash and with that flash it's possible to go to 62-64 so it does the final shift then slow back down to 60 and get 1700 rpms like one that does not have the flash. Any lower then 60 a f37 flashed tcm will down shift and the rpms will go back up.

Joe
Author:  Rich [ Mon Jan 04, 2010 6:00 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: TCM and F37
I have to leave in a min to pick my wife up at work, so this may work out.

I am going to accelerate from a stop (or as close as I can get) up to, but not exceeding 60mph indicated on speedometer. From that I am going to note my RPM while holding 60mph indicated.

If I am at 1700 :BANANA:
If I am at 1900 :furious:

If I get 1900, accelerate to 65, final shift and drop back to 60mph to see 1700.

Am I picking this up correctly?
Author:  Joe Romas [ Mon Jan 04, 2010 8:12 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: TCM and F37
Rich wrote:
I have to leave in a min to pick my wife up at work, so this may work out.

I am going to accelerate from a stop (or as close as I can get) up to, but not exceeding 60mph indicated on speedometer. From that I am going to note my RPM while holding 60mph indicated.

If I am at 1700 :BANANA:
If I am at 1900 :furious:

If I get 1900, accelerate to 65, final shift and drop back to 60mph to see 1700.

Am I picking this up correctly?



YES :POPCORN:
Author:  Rich [ Mon Jan 04, 2010 8:16 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: TCM and F37
Joe Romas wrote:

YES :POPCORN:


Show me :BANANA:

Got onto the freeway tonight, brought it up to 60mph indicated speed without crossing, tach was sitting at 1700 and a little bit!

I will shoot a better video when my go-pro arrives, and post it up as a "non-F37" example to help others figure it out.
Author:  dieseldoesit [ Wed Jan 06, 2010 12:31 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: TCM and F37
good info here. Looks like mine is not updated as it shifts into final at 57-58 mph.

When easing off the gas is there any difference in the lowest speed (indicated on the speedo) that you are able to obtain with the different flashes?

After getting into fifth, if I ease off the go peddle, the transmission will downshift into 4th gear at around 55 mph.

Is this the same for the F37'd ones? Nevermind. If I could read I would have seen that the F37'd TCM's down shift at 60 MPH.

Wow, a 5 MPH difference. That is quite big.
Author:  stoutdog [ Wed Jan 06, 2010 2:09 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: TCM and F37
dieseldoesit wrote:
good info here. Looks like mine is not updated as it shifts into final at 57-58 mph.

When easing off the gas is there any difference in the lowest speed (indicated on the speedo) that you are able to obtain with the different flashes?

After getting into fifth, if I ease off the go peddle, the transmission will downshift into 4th gear at around 55 mph.

Is this the same for the F37'd ones? Nevermind. If I could read I would have seen that the F37'd TCM's down shift at 60 MPH.

Wow, a 5 MPH difference. That is quite big.


Yea, it's most annoying on 55mph state highways. With the F37, it's either risk a ticket or drive in 4th O/D
Author:  geordi [ Thu Jan 07, 2010 3:30 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: TCM and F37
I checked mine today after it finally warmed up enough to shift into OD... And at 60mph it was at 2000 exactly, at 61 it shifted one last time and dropped the RPM to 1780/1800. Obviously I'm screwed by the F37, but any ideas why it is a little higher than other people's trucks?
Author:  stoutdog [ Thu Jan 07, 2010 3:44 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: TCM and F37
geordi wrote:
I checked mine today after it finally warmed up enough to shift into OD... And at 60mph it was at 2000 exactly, at 61 it shifted one last time and dropped the RPM to 1780/1800. Obviously I'm screwed by the F37, but any ideas why it is a little higher than other people's trucks?

That's exactly where mine shifts (GPS indicated)
Author:  dieseldawg [ Thu Jan 07, 2010 4:08 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: TCM and F37
Mine has been F37ed and it definitely does not shift like the video so you appear to be non-F37.

Not to change the subject, but have you done any modification to the exhaust on your CRD. It sounded good in that video. Maybe I'm just used to the sound of mine, but yours had a nice tone in the video. Just curious

Craig
Author:  linewarbr [ Thu Jan 07, 2010 5:02 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: TCM and F37
stoutdog wrote:
geordi wrote:
I checked mine today after it finally warmed up enough to shift into OD... And at 60mph it was at 2000 exactly, at 61 it shifted one last time and dropped the RPM to 1780/1800. Obviously I'm screwed by the F37, but any ideas why it is a little higher than other people's trucks?

That's exactly where mine shifts (GPS indicated)



x2 :banghead:
Author:  Rich [ Thu Jan 07, 2010 6:20 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: TCM and F37
All stock besides a Samco kit. But thank you for the complement!

Sorry to you guys that have confirmed F37 using my video :( Can someone post up a video of a F37 Jeep doing the same acceleration test? This way we can make sure everyone has a good example to go with.
Author:  LibertyCRD [ Tue Jan 12, 2010 10:45 am ]
Post subject:  Re: TCM and F37
Mine locks up in 5th at 58 MPH...and I've got 75,000 on the clock and the previous owner had a lot of work done on it because it was a lease. So how did mine escape F37 all these years? There is even a sticker under the hood with a code stating they upgraded something...not sure what was done though.
Author:  Rich [ Tue Jan 12, 2010 12:11 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: TCM and F37
LibertyCRD wrote:
Mine locks up in 5th at 58 MPH...and I've got 75,000 on the clock and the previous owner had a lot of work done on it because it was a lease. So how did mine escape F37 all these years? There is even a sticker under the hood with a code stating they upgraded something...not sure what was done though.


It seems some of our CRDs had the F37 done, but for some reason the TCM wasn't updated as well. As mentioned earlier by Joe, some dealers were bricking the TCM's by allowing the battery to go dead during the update. This caused the release of added instructions of "hook vehicle up to battery charger during update." Some dealers, I would assume, didn't get the word or just wanted to err on the side of caution and not update at all.

So, congrats! You are like me, and I would assume many many others out there, who have an F37-free TCM, but had the F37 "done" on our CRDs!
Author:  nescosmo [ Tue Jan 12, 2010 2:46 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: **CRD OWNERS READ** TCM and F37
I own an sprinter van and seems to me that the F37 came from the germans.
My sprinter final shift is at 64 or 65 and in the proses the rev is very high.
My CRD seem not to have the F37. I took it in right after I found out about the F37 to the dealer to have it changed, but maybe the dealer did not know how to to do it, - been so soon- and say it did. they put the sticker on the top of the air box. :BINGO:
Author:  Joe Romas [ Tue Jan 12, 2010 4:34 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: **CRD OWNERS READ** TCM and F37
nescosmo wrote:
I own an sprinter van and seems to me that the F37 came from the germans.
My sprinter final shift is at 64 or 65 and in the proses the rev is very high.


Congrats on the non F37

I don't think you can compare a Sprinter to a CRD. Your Sprinter has more wind resistance and if it's a 5 cylinder 2.5L it has less power. If it's a V6 then I think that's a 3.0L The sprinter is heavier too and has a bigger payload. I don't think either engine used the 545 tranny we have in the CRD's. It needs to wind up to get moving :dizzy:

The highter revs part of F37 are so the transmission will build up more fluid pressure. At 1900 rpms the pressure is not enough to hold the max torque the CRD puts out causing the lockup clutch in the torque converter to slip :ALONE:
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