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 Post subject: European Torque Converter Question
PostPosted: Wed Jan 13, 2010 9:11 pm 
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I purchased a 68037142AA torque converter online from moparonlineparts last wednesday with 2nd day air delivery. It showed up today, 7 days later. The box the torque converter came in has the 68037142AA number on it, but the actual torque converter does not. The part has the following stamped on it: 914AA0168A. It has a white sticker on it with these numbers: PO4736914AA and TTP0168B0399. It also has a lot of surface rust on it.

Does anyone who has purchased the new "european" torque converter have any info on what their part had for labels/numbers?

Is this indeed the correct part or do I have something that is not what I ordered?

Do I need to be worried that there is surface rust on the part?

Thanks for your inputs.

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2006 Jeep Liberty Limited CRD
GDE Turbo Kit and TCM, European Torque Converter, Lift Pump, V6 Air Box, Magnaflow Muffler, Stanadyne FM100 2um Fuel Filter
2011 BMW 335d
2004 Dodge Ram Cummins, lots-o-mods
1990 YJ Repowered with 06 Cummins B3.3T
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 Post subject: Re: European Torque Converter Question
PostPosted: Wed Jan 13, 2010 9:32 pm 
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http://www.greendieselengineering.com/f ... /60/7.page

Quote:
The service part number for the upgraded torque converter is 68037142AA. We just received two of these converters a couple days ago and will be installing them in the next few days for review and assessment with the hot tune and turbo kit applications. Both products will have the torque maximized for this converter within 1 month. Our objective is to find the limit of acceptability and not exceed the design limits of the new converter. The goal is to be able to hold lock-up with heavier loads to improve fuel economy while trailer towing and not have shudder in any condition. It seems Mopar raised the price a few bucks from $195 to $203, still a great deal for the money!

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 Post subject: Re: European Torque Converter Question
PostPosted: Wed Jan 13, 2010 9:43 pm 
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Thanks.

I understand I ordered the correct part number and the box has the correct PN, just not sure why the actual part has different numbers on it. The box had been previously opened before coming to me so I'm trying to double check to make sure the actual converter wasn't swapped with something else. I'll be an unhappy camper if this replacement turns out to be the wrong part . . .

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2006 Jeep Liberty Limited CRD
GDE Turbo Kit and TCM, European Torque Converter, Lift Pump, V6 Air Box, Magnaflow Muffler, Stanadyne FM100 2um Fuel Filter
2011 BMW 335d
2004 Dodge Ram Cummins, lots-o-mods
1990 YJ Repowered with 06 Cummins B3.3T
2005 Kubota BX1500


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 Post subject: Re: European Torque Converter Question
PostPosted: Wed Jan 13, 2010 10:31 pm 
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Relax. My "euro" TC came exactly as yours from MPA with stickers on it that are other than the correct part number (other than on the outside of the box) and lots of surface rust. Keith's (GDE) two TCs from MPA also both arrived the same way.

The explanation for the rust on a new part is that supposedly the vendor that makes them for Chrysler has had huge numbers of these TC housings sitting around for years. They then take them off the shelf and build them up to the specs requested.

We now have about 4K on our "euro" TC. It has performed flawlessly with absolutely no hint of shudder with the GDE HOT tune under all conditions, even towing a 4000 lb horse trailer.

The only problem with the install was the flex plate bolt heads stripped on removal and the dealer had to order some.

I expect you should be very happy with your "euro" TC from MPA. BTW, it is now the standard replacement TC for our CRDs so it will be covered under whatever warranty you have remaining.

DOC

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 Post subject: Re: European Torque Converter Question
PostPosted: Wed Jan 13, 2010 11:56 pm 
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question.my tc went out at 30000 factory (replaced) ,at the time i asked if i could pay the difference for the suncoast, denied i then asked if i could pay for the suncoast my self ,denied i then asked if i could replace the converter myself with the suncoast was told voided warranty. i have been dealing with the same service writer for years as owning several chrysler products he is a good guy and has allways tried to do his best.55000miles starting to have same tc issues. i smoke with the service writer and explained what i read through the forum about a better factory tc replacement he is looking into it .looking for help in pointing him in the right place ,or maybe someone else has all ready dealt with this as a warranty issue.thanks


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 Post subject: Re: European Torque Converter Question
PostPosted: Thu Jan 14, 2010 6:41 am 
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The torque converter should have come with 4 new flexplate bolts (the little black ones). The bolts were loose in the box hold the TC on the two we ordered and one unit only had three bolts in it. If you lose these make sure to get new ones or use the original. Do not use something from a hardware store as the hardness is vastly different. We certainly do not want to hear a story about a TC separating from the flexplate.

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 Post subject: Re: European Torque Converter Question
PostPosted: Thu Jan 14, 2010 9:56 am 
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68037142AA is a part number for a kit consisting of:
04736914AA - torque converter qty 1
01949765 - screw qty 4

P04736914AA is a good torque converter number although old. Just make sure that the hub is clean. If it has rust on the portion of the hub that inserts into the transmission pump then send it back, don't sand it off and use it. That area should have been covered by a plastic cap.

TTP0168B0399 is (I think) the serial number.

I'm not sure what 914AA0168A means, could be a date code for a '914AA' converter.

You should be good to go.

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 Post subject: Re: European Torque Converter Question
PostPosted: Thu Jan 14, 2010 9:59 am 
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Thanks for the helpful info.

I found the 4 bolts at the bottom of the box. Looks like they were originally in a small plastic bag that was torn open. That's why I thought the mopar box had been opened before arriving at my place.

I'll be going forward with the install. Thanks for the inputs.

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2006 Jeep Liberty Limited CRD
GDE Turbo Kit and TCM, European Torque Converter, Lift Pump, V6 Air Box, Magnaflow Muffler, Stanadyne FM100 2um Fuel Filter
2011 BMW 335d
2004 Dodge Ram Cummins, lots-o-mods
1990 YJ Repowered with 06 Cummins B3.3T
2005 Kubota BX1500


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 Post subject: Re: European Torque Converter Question
PostPosted: Fri Jan 15, 2010 12:27 am 
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Cody,

If you are due for a warranty replacement TC, you should get the new "euro" TC without even asking. You might want to check one of my previous posts to make sure they install that part #. Yes, if you have a Suncoast installed and have a trans problem, I don't like your chances of getting warranty coverage for the trans repair.

DOC

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2005 KJ CRD Ltd Detroit TrueTrac Bilsteins G2 GDE "HOT" ECU GDE TCM "Tow Tune" "euro" TC SEGR Weeks Elbow New HG at 130K ARPs Clean CAT aFe Filter Magnaflow Exhaust EHM Cumminos In-Tank Lift Pump Hayden Fan Clutch Nylon Fan VH Enabled with GDE lower shutoff point Recalibrated Temp Gauge Tekonsha Prodigy Sears P-1 ZDDP


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 Post subject: Re: European Torque Converter Question
PostPosted: Sun Jan 24, 2010 4:29 pm 
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TDIwyse wrote:
I'll be going forward with the install. Thanks for the inputs.


It's working well and it stopped the shudder. Thanks all.

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2006 Jeep Liberty Limited CRD
GDE Turbo Kit and TCM, European Torque Converter, Lift Pump, V6 Air Box, Magnaflow Muffler, Stanadyne FM100 2um Fuel Filter
2011 BMW 335d
2004 Dodge Ram Cummins, lots-o-mods
1990 YJ Repowered with 06 Cummins B3.3T
2005 Kubota BX1500


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 Post subject: Re: European Torque Converter Question
PostPosted: Tue Jan 26, 2010 12:15 pm 
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 Post subject: Re: European Torque Converter Question
PostPosted: Tue Jan 26, 2010 4:23 pm 
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 Post subject: Re: European Torque Converter Question
PostPosted: Wed Jan 27, 2010 3:31 pm 
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I cut open the old torque converter. Here's some pics.

http://www.flickr.com/photos/10201173@N06/4309122929/
http://www.flickr.com/photos/10201173@N06/4309858484/
http://www.flickr.com/photos/10201173@N06/4309123235/

Showing the stator to some of the Mechanical/Ceramic Engineers at work resulted in a general consensus that it's made from some form of bakelite. Cut of a small piece and am trying to persuade them to run it in their differential scanning calorimeter to find its thermal limitations.

Any suggestions on how to remove those springs in the lockup clutch? I'd kind of like to measure them.

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2006 Jeep Liberty Limited CRD
GDE Turbo Kit and TCM, European Torque Converter, Lift Pump, V6 Air Box, Magnaflow Muffler, Stanadyne FM100 2um Fuel Filter
2011 BMW 335d
2004 Dodge Ram Cummins, lots-o-mods
1990 YJ Repowered with 06 Cummins B3.3T
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 Post subject: Re: European Torque Converter Question
PostPosted: Wed Jan 27, 2010 5:06 pm 
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In the last picture is it the camera angle or a reflection in the picture showing the springs :?: If not it looks like a problem was developing

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 Post subject: Re: European Torque Converter Question
PostPosted: Wed Jan 27, 2010 6:07 pm 
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Hmmmm, which area in particular. I'm home now and can go out and check (was going to try to get the springs released as well). I did have to cut and pry hard to get that section released from the housing so there's some damage I inflicted during the cutting/prying/removal process.

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2006 Jeep Liberty Limited CRD
GDE Turbo Kit and TCM, European Torque Converter, Lift Pump, V6 Air Box, Magnaflow Muffler, Stanadyne FM100 2um Fuel Filter
2011 BMW 335d
2004 Dodge Ram Cummins, lots-o-mods
1990 YJ Repowered with 06 Cummins B3.3T
2005 Kubota BX1500


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 Post subject: Re: European Torque Converter Question
PostPosted: Wed Jan 27, 2010 6:49 pm 
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I wiped down the surface a bit with a rag and re-took the picture. It's here:

http://www.flickr.com/photos/10201173@N06/4309539983/

And then I drilled out the rivets by the springs and pulled 4 of them out. They're actually a spring within a spring. Hopefully this will show it pretty well:

http://www.flickr.com/photos/10201173@N06/4309539079/

I'm hoping to find time to measure the spring K constant in the next few days.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hooke%27s_law

Anyone happen to have the new style euro TC torn apart to compare spring constants?

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2006 Jeep Liberty Limited CRD
GDE Turbo Kit and TCM, European Torque Converter, Lift Pump, V6 Air Box, Magnaflow Muffler, Stanadyne FM100 2um Fuel Filter
2011 BMW 335d
2004 Dodge Ram Cummins, lots-o-mods
1990 YJ Repowered with 06 Cummins B3.3T
2005 Kubota BX1500


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 Post subject: Re: European Torque Converter Question
PostPosted: Wed Jan 27, 2010 9:21 pm 
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Must have been a reflection. I don't see anything on the second picture of it. Those springs sure look weak for our "thumper" of a tractor engine. I once owned a 91 VW ECHOdiesel and every 50k miles those springs would get distroyed and come loose and jamb up the clutch. I thought it may have been my driving style. But I sold it to a friend who has a much more relaxed style and they came loose for him too. We had replacing a clutch plate and disk down to a science :SOMBRERO:

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 Post subject: Re: European Torque Converter Question
PostPosted: Wed Jan 27, 2010 10:19 pm 
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Well, the need to know was killing me so I quick built a red-neck apparatus.

http://www.flickr.com/photos/10201173@N06/4310653656/

http://www.flickr.com/photos/10201173@N06/4309917903/

For 3 springs it takes about 70 lbs to compress about 0.25 inches. Take this measurement with a large grain of salt. However, I agree that it seems really weak.

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2006 Jeep Liberty Limited CRD
GDE Turbo Kit and TCM, European Torque Converter, Lift Pump, V6 Air Box, Magnaflow Muffler, Stanadyne FM100 2um Fuel Filter
2011 BMW 335d
2004 Dodge Ram Cummins, lots-o-mods
1990 YJ Repowered with 06 Cummins B3.3T
2005 Kubota BX1500


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 Post subject: Re: European Torque Converter Question
PostPosted: Thu Jan 28, 2010 9:48 pm 
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Finished drilling out all the rivets on the "sandwich" that holds the springs in place. Once this plate was separated was able to see how much this surface could slide before the rivets would "bottom out" on the vertical supporting metal material.

So it looks like ~1.25 inches of rotation would cause a hard stop of the clutch slippage as the rivets hit the vertical supports. So it looks like using my previously measured compression force numbers 8 springs would give ~70*8/3=186.7 lbs/0.25 inch. So for 1.25 inches of travel it would take ~ 933 lbs of force at the springs. The springs are located ~ 4.5 inches from the center shaft so we arrive at 933 lbs * 4.5 in/12in/ft ~ 350 ft-lbs of a single pulse would cause a metal to metal impact.

Please check my assumptions and calculations.

Here's the pics:

http://www.flickr.com/photos/10201173@N06/4312931280/

http://www.flickr.com/photos/10201173@N06/4312194843/

http://www.flickr.com/photos/10201173@N06/4312930020/


On edit: I used my micrometer and the distance is more like 1.13 inches instead of 1.25. That would lower the result to ~ 316 ft-lbs instead of 350.

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2006 Jeep Liberty Limited CRD
GDE Turbo Kit and TCM, European Torque Converter, Lift Pump, V6 Air Box, Magnaflow Muffler, Stanadyne FM100 2um Fuel Filter
2011 BMW 335d
2004 Dodge Ram Cummins, lots-o-mods
1990 YJ Repowered with 06 Cummins B3.3T
2005 Kubota BX1500


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 Post subject: Re: European Torque Converter Question
PostPosted: Thu Jan 28, 2010 10:20 pm 
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You are neglecting the torque required to overcome clutch friction in your calculation. It is additive to the spring force.

Also, do the springs go solid with less than 1.13" compression? If so, that would be your hard stop.

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Last edited by CATCRD on Thu Jan 28, 2010 10:44 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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