European Torque Converter Question

JDMcQ · **Joined:** Tue Sep 18, 2012 1:55 pm **Posts:** 37

The dealer has offered to replace the TC and pump at no cost to me. About as good as I could have hoped for without spending any money.

lostFinn · **Posted:** Sun Oct 14, 2012 5:44 pm

Our 2005 Cherokee 2.8 CRD has this torque converter: P04736582AD

Is that "European Torque Converter" or weak one?

Thanks

DOC4444 · **Posted:** Mon Oct 15, 2012 7:49 am

The only way I am aware of is from the cardboard box it comes in. Seems crazy, but.....

DOC

papaindigo · **Posted:** Mon Oct 15, 2012 8:12 am

The PNs are a bit opaque but based on that PN it appears you have what I call the 2n gen TC that came as part of the transmission TSB "kit". The 1st gen TC (earlier 05 models) had a plastic part, as I understand, and failed very early (I strongly doubt any of those are still on the road or that they are available in the parts chain). The 2n gen (later 05 and all 06) lacked that part and maybe?? had slightly better springs but still not enough for the CRD engine torque and TC shift points hence the final F-37 recall (detuned engine torque, changed TCM shift points, and replaced all 1st gen TCs and any failing 2n gen TCs).

The "Euro" came out in the 07 models which were export only hence the nickname "Euro" under PN 68037142AA now apparently available only as a rebuild RL037142AA. Until recently that TC was available in the US but for some silly reason DCJ has recently stuck an export only restriction on sales which hopefully will be lifted.

The comment about looking at the box is because the TC apparently does not have a PN stamped on it hence the only way to know what's being or has been installed by a dealer during a TC replacement is to physically look at the box for the PN. Externally the 2n gen and Euro TCs are identical; only difference is the strength of the internal springs.

FYI the 2n gen TC is "ok" in the sense it will last until it fails which could be never absent the stress of heavy foot driving or lots of heavy towing in hilly terrain. Translation - I would not proactively replace a 2n gen TC absent shudder unless you want to stress it with a hot ECU tune or, as I did, replacement of the stock turbo with the GDE Stage II turbo.

lostFinn · **Posted:** Mon Oct 15, 2012 1:49 pm

OK, thanks. I think here in Finland we have not had F-37 recall. Only recall for my Jeep to date is rear suspension lower control arms -recall.

Here are two pictures of the torque converter:

DOC4444 · **Posted:** Mon Oct 15, 2012 9:47 pm

Pap, there are numbers stamped into the TC cases, but I do not know anyone who has made sense of them. So, I do not know that there is a way to figure out what you "have" in your CRD by just looking at the outside of your TC case.

Your advice is the best, no shudder, stick with the one you have. If you go with an ECU tune that causes shudder, replace, or "drive around" the problem.

DOC

striperman36 · **Posted:** Tue Oct 16, 2012 8:33 am

that's why I went with the suncoast and the transgo shift kit to replace the springs in the pump and the shift worms

JDMcQ · **Joined:** Tue Sep 18, 2012 1:55 pm **Posts:** 37

I got my Liberty back from the dealer last night. The installed a new (rebuilt?) TC pn R8037142-AA and Pump kit 68009879-AE. The shuddering is lessened for certain, but not gone. When the TC locks up, there is a definite vibration. Any thoughts or suggestions. This is still under warranty.

DOC4444 · **Posted:** Fri Oct 19, 2012 9:32 pm

P/N looks one character off what Pap noted. Do you have any tune or power added installed?

The speed at which shudder is usually noted is 58-59. Is yours there, only?

DOC

JDMcQ · **Joined:** Tue Sep 18, 2012 1:55 pm **Posts:** 37

No tune or power adder. I was hoping to get the GDE Eco tune eventually.

The shudder is right at the speeds you mentioned, then it smooths right out.

DOC4444 · **Posted:** Fri Oct 19, 2012 10:16 pm

Sorry, but it sounds like you have the "classic" KJ CRD shudder. There are other things that people sometimes confuse with this, but I do not think that is the case here.

I would take it back to the dealer. Any chance there could be a tune installed by a previous owner?

DOC

JDMcQ · **Joined:** Tue Sep 18, 2012 1:55 pm **Posts:** 37

The warranty expires at the end of this month, but I figure I am covered as they have tried to address the issue prior t that. I will take it back, actually, might take it to a more local dealer and see what they can do or suggest.

Is the shudder damaging and what might the dealer do to rectify the situation?

DOC4444 · **Posted:** Fri Oct 19, 2012 10:44 pm

Yes, it is damaging. It is a good idea to "drive around" the problem until it is solved in order to minimize the amount of friction material that is dumped into the trans fluid.

The TC probably needs to be replaced with a "euro", though this may hard for them to get.

DOC

JDMcQ · **Joined:** Tue Sep 18, 2012 1:55 pm **Posts:** 37

Thanks Doc. I have a feeling that they will just say "that's how it is" but I will keep pushing them. Maybe one of my friends in Canada can get the Euro TC and have it shipped to me. for installation.

papaindigo · **Posted:** Sat Oct 20, 2012 2:32 pm

Slight PN difference notwithstanding you may already have the Euro TC which is only available as a rebuild hence the "R" prefix. That said it should be rock solid unless you got a bad one out of the box which is certainly possible. At minimum you need to get on the record with the problem with this TC preferably with a tech ridealong so they can be shown what you are experiencing.

For what it's worth dealers can be a bit stuffy about taking over and making right another dealer's work. Translation while you might want to get a "second" opinion so to speak I think you might best go back to the dealer that installed the TC to get the problem fixed.

JDMcQ · **Joined:** Tue Sep 18, 2012 1:55 pm **Posts:** 37

papaindigo wrote:

Slight PN difference notwithstanding you may already have the Euro TC which is only available as a rebuild hence the "R" prefix. That said it should be rock solid unless you got a bad one out of the box which is certainly possible. At minimum you need to get on the record with the problem with this TC preferably with a tech ridealong so they can be shown what you are experiencing.

For what it's worth dealers can be a bit stuffy about taking over and making right another dealer's work. Translation while you might want to get a "second" opinion so to speak I think you might best go back to the dealer that installed the TC to get the problem fixed.

Thanks. I agree on the issue with a new dealer, it is just 75 minutes each way to the one that did the work and is a gian pain to get up there. I will call Monday and get ahold of someones ear.

JDMcQ · **Joined:** Tue Sep 18, 2012 1:55 pm **Posts:** 37

The service manager was very friendly, and probably as helpful as could be expected. He says that the shuddering is common in the CRD Liberty and all he can do is install the parts recommended by Chrysler, which he did. He suggested that I drive around the problem. I don't really find this acceptable and told him so. His told me to get hold of the sales manager to discuss what the dealership could do for me. If sales greenlighted it, he would install any aftermarket parts I wanted. No word from sales yet.

Jimmy at Suncoast strongly suggested the Transgo kit be installed with his converter. I am going to get an install quote from a local shop as reference and ammunition.

papaindigo · **Posted:** Mon Oct 22, 2012 1:58 pm

For what it's worth the transgo kit install does not appear to be too difficult. Unless I'm missing something it's as simple as dropping the tranny pan, pull the valve body, unbolt the plate on the side of the valve body, swap some springs and such, reassemble/reinstall. With lift shouldn't take more than 1-2 hrs and on the short side of that. I'll confess I've not done the kit install as SunCoast took care of that when they installed my TC.

JDMcQ · **Joined:** Tue Sep 18, 2012 1:55 pm **Posts:** 37

I thought that the TRansgo kit involved pump removal?

My local transmission/drivetrain shop went for a ride with me. He swears that what I am feeling is a out of balance driveshaft. The symptoms are mimic those of the TC issue. IT would explain why the issue was not resolved with a TC swap and why this vehicle has a history of unresolved trans complaints.

European Torque Converter Question

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