European Torque Converter Question

warp2diesel · **Posted:** Tue Apr 20, 2010 1:25 pm

stoutdog wrote:

With the risk of stepping into this debate, I'd like to clarify what, I gather, TDIWise and others are saying about the Euro TC. Warp, you've provided a couple of scenarios to explain the cases in which Suncoast TCs have experienced shudder problems, arguing that it is either the wrong fluid or the fact that the owner didn't replace the pump.

The problem with this argument, and I think this is the point that others are trying to get at, is that CRDs running the Euro TC are just as likely to have these same two concerns and have, even then, never experienced shudder under the highest torque tunes available (GDE Turbo & Hot). It seems to me that most Euro TC owners have never touched the pump.... And the variability of running the wrong fluids is a universal concern regardless of what TC you've installed.

That being said, it appears that the Euro TC has held its own where the far more expensive Suncoast TC has failed (even more expensive if you replace the pump and install the Transgo kit). As such, I wouldn't consider the Suncoast TC to be a performance upgrade... not if it can't handle GDE while the Euro TC can.

Just my :2cents:

FYI: SunCoast Owners stay in touch and their Converters have been on the market for several years and have more history than the J8/Euro. Furthermore SunCoast was the guinea pig where the transmission shops learned they can not use the wrong fluid or throw it together with a bad pump. Playing word games that defy the laws of physics and how they apply to a 545RFE transmission and comparing apples to mangos, are stunts that should be saved for debating while intoxicated late night parties. Any SunCoast failures being sighted have been due to the other problems listed many times in previous posts. Blaming the failures on SunCoast is a cheap shot.
The biggest problem with how this discussion has shifted is the double standard which is often often played in politics, SunCoast owners have a microscope shoved up their back side and others are asked to be looked at with thick Rose Colored Glasses.
When I state an opinion, I make it clear, and state it as opinion.
Fact: Neither converter can function properly with the wrong fluid or a bad front pump, can I make myself any more clear. The Suncoast is no more sensitive to a bad pump or wrong fluid than the J8/Euro.
Opinion: The J8/Euro converter should have been the stock converter from day one.
Had it been the stock converter from day one, the Wretched F-37 de-tuning would never have happened :!:

Since every time I felt any chatter of any kind, it was a lousy Chicago area wash board road and the problem went away as soon as I changed lanes. Using the logic of the hard line Pro J8/Euro crowd, I could slap in my SunCoast and not have a problem. But since I want to do it once, I will pull the front pump and install the valve that came in thew Transgo kit. Also I will install the other parts recommended by the SunCoast Techs into the valve body so I can go as long as possible with out having to do any more.

Rixram · **Posted:** Wed Oct 20, 2010 5:01 pm

Is there a procedure on LOST somewhere for how to replace the TC?

Sorry for asking such an incredibly dumb question, but I've never done it, and I plan to tow heav loads in the near future.

CATCRD · **Posted:** Wed Oct 20, 2010 5:34 pm

Rixram wrote:

Is there a procedure on LOST somewhere for how to replace the TC?

Sorry for asking such an incredibly dumb question, but I've never done it, and I plan to tow heav loads in the near future.

Here is what I wrote up when I did mine, but others have done so too. Just scroll down a ways:
viewtopic.php?f=5&t=34713&p=362301

Rixram · **Posted:** Wed Oct 20, 2010 9:47 pm

CATCRD wrote:

Rixram wrote:

Is there a procedure on LOST somewhere for how to replace the TC?

Sorry for asking such an incredibly dumb question, but I've never done it, and I plan to tow heav loads in the near future.

Here is what I wrote up when I did mine, but others have done so too. Just scroll down a ways:
viewtopic.php?f=5&t=34713&p=362301

darn. That looks like a witch of a job. I have no issue doing most things to the Jeep, but dropping the tranny intimidates me.

4sefed · **Posted:** Wed Oct 20, 2010 9:54 pm

Rixram wrote:

darn. That looks like a witch of a job. I have no issue doing most things to the Jeep, but dropping the tranny intimidates me.

And you thought there was some other way to get a torque convertor in and out without removing the tranny?

Rixram · **Posted:** Wed Oct 20, 2010 11:32 pm

4sefed wrote:

Rixram wrote:

darn. That looks like a witch of a job. I have no issue doing most things to the Jeep, but dropping the tranny intimidates me.

And you thought there was some other way to get a torque convertor in and out without removing the tranny?

Wasn't sure how much work it entailed.

4sefed · **Posted:** Wed Oct 20, 2010 11:49 pm

my only concern with ordering one of these through my dealer, is that while I was talking to s good friend of mine (Chrysler Tech) he mentioned that if they have an exisitng TC in the warehouse it may be one of the old tc's and cause it's not a common thing to replace due to the low production numbers, you could end up getting a new older TC.

but then again I suppose ordering it through mopar online parts is sure thing that your going to get the updated TC.

just don't want to pay for shipping to canada.

Joe Romas · **Posted:** Thu Oct 21, 2010 6:38 am

4sefed wrote:

Rixram wrote:

darn. That looks like a witch of a job. I have no issue doing most things to the Jeep, but dropping the tranny intimidates me.

And you thought there was some other way to get a torque convertor in and out without removing the tranny?

Sure there is :BANANA:

You can pull the engine :ROTFL:

DynoPax · **Posted:** Thu Oct 21, 2010 8:00 am

4sefed,

Did mine last spring, really not as bad as it looks. As pointed by another LOST member, make sure you have a good ratchet set with plenty of extensions. Believe me, you need them to reach the upper bolts on the bellhousing. Also, a proper lift is mandatory. Rent one, borrow it or buy... Princess Auto often has good deals!

I used the procedure published in GDE's forum:

http://www.greendieselengineering.com/f ... st/37.page

I also ordered my TC through Mopartz.com and had it delivered near the border, at a UPS Store. It was then a simple matter of driving over to pick it up.

Now all you need is to sum up the courage to do the job :mrgreen:

DOC4444 · **Posted:** Thu Oct 21, 2010 5:17 pm

Regarding concern about getting the "wrong" TC, you MUST go by the part# on the MOPAR cardboard box. This sounds crazy, but if you end up with a TC out of its OEM packaging, there is NO way to confirm that you have the "right" one.

DOC

yrkcrd · **Posted:** Mon Oct 10, 2011 3:41 pm

Bringing this post back from a year ago.

There was mention of running a Hemi 5.7L TC, has anyone tried the one from the 4.7l from the WJ Grand Cherokee?
It may very well be the same one. I ask because I have one available to me.

From reading this it almost sound like a higher stall speed would be a little better.

Lastly are all of the 545RFE transmissions the same? As I have one from a WJ Jeep available that already has the transgo shift kit and pump mods done to it with less miles than mine.
So I may just swap the trans and TC and one time.

I know the tail shaft is different where the transfer case bolts on, but I think that may be it.
Can someone confirm?

danoid · **Posted:** Mon Oct 10, 2011 5:02 pm

The WJ has a 12 bolt transfer case pattern. The KJ has a six bolt I think. It MAY be possible to unbolt the extension from the KJ transmission and put it on the WJ transmission.

The bellhousings may be machined differently between WJ and KJ also. (Casting is probably the same so it is probably workable with a few drill it yourself holes.) If memory serves me right, the WJ oil pan bolts directly to the trans, the KJ has an adapter plate. Double check before assuming it's a straight bolt on.

Torque converter? The 4.7L and 5.7L I think have a slightly different stall speed and the same damper. The 'european' torque converter has an upgraded damper. This is required because you are making the same torque as a 4.7L with half the cylinders firing per revolution (twice the impact load). Definitely recommended to stay with the diesel dampers.

Unless you are having problems with your current transmission, it sounds like it's a lot of work for minimal gain. If you have the room for storage, take the WJ trans and keep it for backup.

yrkcrd · **Posted:** Mon Oct 10, 2011 5:11 pm

Thank you for the very informative answer! :JEEPIN:

mk38tech · **Joined:** Thu Dec 08, 2011 7:25 pm **Posts:** 72

so i JUST got off the phone with suncoast. i asked how much for the tc and install they told me $1495. i asked about the damper spring upgrade and they had no idea what i was talking about. this is what is currently on the website

$695.00 plus core charge. Jeep CRD Torque converter with our new damper spring upgrade.

first comes confusion then comes me calling chrystler to see what they want for that euro install if they will do it. i hate even the thought of talking to them on the phone but what can i do...

ChooChooman74 · **Posted:** Fri Aug 10, 2012 1:08 pm

I would personally get the Suncoast or ATS converter before the European.

Sent from my DROID BIONIC using Tapatalk 2

striperman36 · **Posted:** Fri Aug 10, 2012 1:11 pm

ChooChooman74 wrote:

I would personally get the Suncoast or ATS converter before the European.

Sent from my DROID BIONIC using Tapatalk 2

When you do yours you can do RixRam's and mine

ChooChooman74 · **Posted:** Fri Aug 10, 2012 1:17 pm

Lets worry about your filters first! I just took a pay cut to training pay gor the next 24 weeks. :shock:

Sent from my DROID BIONIC using Tapatalk 2

striperman36 · **Posted:** Fri Aug 10, 2012 1:21 pm

ChooChooman74 wrote:

Lets worry about your filters first! I just took a pay cut to training pay gor the next 24 weeks. :shock:

Sent from my DROID BIONIC using Tapatalk 2

Ouch

papaindigo · **Posted:** Fri Aug 10, 2012 2:31 pm

mk38tech - just to clarify a bit.
1. when you talk to SunCoast you really need to talk to Ron Wolverton the owner not just whomever answers the phone as some of that staff is not quite as "up" on the CRD product as they are the more common, for example, Dodge upgrades.
2. what's on-line is what they sell which is essentially the same TC they have been selling just with damper springs a bit upgraded from the older version. There is no "option" for upgraded damper springs and no I do not know when the upgrade was done to their stock CRD TC product. For all I know the phrasing is just saying their CRD TC has upgraded damper springs when compared to the OEM product which is true.
3. that price quote sounds reasonable and comes with a 2yr TC warranty. I paid ca. $100 more at SunCoast but that included parts and labor to install the full transgo kit while they had the tranny pulled out. Drove over in early am and was home after dark.
4. FYI my local DCJ dealer has done several SunCoast TC installs on Dodge trucks. A TC install (Euro or SunCoast) is not a CRD specific thing as our tranny is shared with a number of DCJ products.

One very minor thing to consider is that the nylon bushing that holds the transfer case shifter cable in place is a bit fragile so who ever does the work might want to install a new one. 68064273ab, don't recall the price but I bought 3 plus the cable clip at my DCJ dealer parts counter and paid less than $5 including tax. Muich easer to install during the process than after the fact, I know.

DOC4444 · **Posted:** Sat Aug 11, 2012 12:23 am

We have over 60K miles with the Euro with no problems so far. Lots of heavy towing. We did the install according to GDE's suggestions; no seal. pump, pump ugrades or Transgo, just the TC. I only paid $240 in late '09. Mopar Parts America's price is now $323.32, plus shipping and $100 core.

I would like people to confirm this, but I have not seen a single report about a Euro in a KJ CRD displaying any signs of shudder, nor any reports of this with Suncoast since they copied the stiffer springs in the Euro in, I believe, early 2010.

Nobody has reported replacing a Euro with a Suncoast, so we have no data as to whether the theoretical advantage of a heavier unit smoothing out the CRD firing pulses proves out in practice. Has anyone driven two CRDs, one right after the other, one with the Euro and a similar one with a Suncoast, to compare?

No reports on ATS yet.

Please update this thread when new info becomes available.

DOC

European Torque Converter Question

Who is online