European Torque Converter Question

Rixram · **Posted:** Sat Aug 11, 2012 9:44 am

DOC4444 wrote:

We have over 60K miles with the Euro with no problems so far. Lots of heavy towing. We did the install according to GDE's suggestions; no seal. pump, pump ugrades or Transgo, just the TC. I only paid $240 in late '09. Mopar Parts America's price is now $323.32, plus shipping and $100 core.

I would like people to confirm this, but I have not seen a single report about a Euro in a KJ CRD displaying any signs of shudder, nor any reports of this with Suncoast since they copied the stiffer springs in the Euro in, I believe, early 2010.

Nobody has reported replacing a Euro with a Suncoast, so we have no data as to whether the theoretical advantage of a heavier unit smoothing out the CRD firing pulses proves out in practice. Has anyone driven two CRDs, one right after the other, one with the Euro and a similar one with a Suncoast, to compare?

No reports on ATS yet.

Please update this thread when new info becomes available.

DOC

Yeah, the TC is next on my list, so I'm needing to figure out what way to go on this...and I'll, once again, be doing it myself.

DOC4444 · **Posted:** Sat Aug 11, 2012 11:03 am

I'm feeling guilty already. How about you, Racer?

Seriously, if you get a Suncoast, we can do a side by side comparison and see if anyone can tell the difference.

Do you have the GDE TCM? I think the greatest potential for benefit with the Suncoast is with the GDE TCM that results in running low RPM in conjunction with a lot of power being able to be applied. With the stock TCM (non-F37 or not), the revs spike instantly as soon as you touch the throttle. Higher revs obviously smooth out the pulses.

GDE TCM, 1500 rpm, 5rth gear, heavy trailer, increasing grade, 3/4 throttle, that's the test!

DOC

Rixram · **Posted:** Sat Aug 11, 2012 11:09 am

DOC4444 wrote:

I'm feeling guilty already. How about you, Racer?

Seriously, if you get a Suncoast, we can do a side by side comparison and see if anyone can tell the difference.

Do you have the GDE TCM? I think the greatest potential for benefit with the Suncoast is with the GDE TCM that results in running low RPM in conjunction with a lot of power being able to be applied. With the stock TCM (non-F37 or not), the revs spike instantly as soon as you touch the throttle. Higher revs obviously smooth out the pulses.

GDE TCM, 1500 rpm, 5rth gear, heavy trailer, increasing grade, 3/4 throttle, that's the test!

DOC

Oops, I did not mean that I didn't receive help, I'm saying that I don't feel comfortable taking my Jeep to a "professional" mechanic due to the low exposure these Jeeps have, Doc, Racer! I apologize that I said the above in a so very wrong way.

By myself, meaning getting dirty and turning wrenches versus writing a check!

:oops:

Rixram · **Posted:** Sat Aug 11, 2012 11:14 am

DOC4444 wrote:

Seriously, if you get a Suncoast, we can do a side by side comparison and see if anyone can tell the difference.

Do you have the GDE TCM? I think the greatest potential for benefit with the Suncoast is with the GDE TCM that results in running low RPM in conjunction with a lot of power being able to be applied. With the stock TCM (non-F37 or not), the revs spike instantly as soon as you touch the throttle. Higher revs obviously smooth out the pulses.

GDE TCM, 1500 rpm, 5rth gear, heavy trailer, increasing grade, 3/4 throttle, that's the test!

DOC

Yes, I have the GDE ECO-tune as well as the GDE TCM.

I am also looking forward to installing an in-line fuel pump near the engine.

DOC4444 · **Posted:** Sat Aug 11, 2012 11:17 am

Easy, I was just kidding....

DOC

striperman36 · **Posted:** Sat Aug 11, 2012 11:40 am

I don't think we need the fuel pump rix. I have no issues at least with mine.

I do see a tc and potentially a gde turbo in the next 100K though.

Along with every other part I've already mentioned

Rixram · **Posted:** Sat Aug 11, 2012 11:57 am

striperman36 wrote:

I don't think we need the fuel pump rix. I have no issues at least with mine.

I do see a tc and potentially a gde turbo in the next 100K though.

Along with every other part I've already mentioned

Idle runs smoother, fuel filter purge and cold starting are improved with a small in-line fuel pump. Jeep is already wired for it. Orange and blue wire, a holdover from the gasser wiring harness, is right under the back-seat.

DOC4444 · **Posted:** Sat Aug 11, 2012 12:22 pm

Eventually, you will develop one small leak between the tank and the injection pump up front and you will be stuck. Jeep will not run. Cummins is best, but put something as close to the tank as possible.

DOC

striperman36 · **Posted:** Sat Aug 11, 2012 1:27 pm

DOC4444 wrote:

Eventually, you will develop one small leak between the tank and the injection pump up front and you will be stuck. Jeep will not run. Cummins is best, but put something in as close to the tank as possible.

DOC

As close to the tank but inline?

DOC4444 · **Posted:** Sat Aug 11, 2012 2:52 pm

The Cummins is a really easy swap and it comes out totally OEM, but if you are just NOT going to do that, the closer your pump is to the tank, the fewer joints there are to leak. (The joints are the type designed for fuel injected gassers that run high pressure pumps in the tank. Our injection pumps suck from the front. Even though an in-tank lift pump for a diesel runs at much lower pressure, it seems to be enough for our KJ CRDs to eliminate air leaks at the multiple joints in the fuel line that leave you stranded.

DOC

JDMcQ · **Joined:** Tue Sep 18, 2012 1:55 pm **Posts:** 37

This thread has been going on for quite some time and has some really great information.

I bought my 2005 CRD a few weeks ago with 67,000 miles on it. The dealership told me that I still had powertrain warranty until the end of this year or 70,000 miles. I know that is not accurate as the warranty starts from the date of original sale, but they said it and I plan on holding them to it. My Jeep has a good bit of TC shudder when locked up and from what I have read, needs to be replaced. My intention is to have the dealership replace the TC, per their promise.

My question is this, how do I know what TC they will be installing? Is the new replacement the same as the Euro-spec TC? How would one get a Euro unit?

A Suncoast is just not in the budget right now and I am certain that I could not get the dealership to install an aftermarket unit.

Any advice would be greatly appreciated.

John

striperman36 · **Posted:** Mon Oct 08, 2012 10:33 pm

IIRC any oem TC installed should be an updated TC with the heavier EURO springs.

Also review any F37 flashes done to the vehicle and have the dealership remedy them.

Lastly, make sure they do a front pump rebuild on your transmission. If you are shuddering it is probably the check valve moving towards failure.

The best shift kit rebuild for the 545RE is the transgo shift kit, around 60 bucks after market, I don't think the dealer will rebuild the pump with a heavier spring set

JDMcQ · **Joined:** Tue Sep 18, 2012 1:55 pm **Posts:** 37

striperman36 wrote:

IIRC any oem TC installed should be an updated TC with the heavier EURO springs.

Also review any F37 flashes done to the vehicle and have the dealership remedy them.

Lastly, make sure they do a front pump rebuild on your transmission. If you are shuddering it is probably the check valve moving towards failure.

The best shift kit rebuild for the 545RE is the transgo shift kit, around 60 bucks after market, I don't think the dealer will rebuild the pump with a heavier spring set

Thanks. I wonder if I can sweet talk them in to installing the transgo kit if I pay for it. My ideal would for them to let me take it to my local trans shop for the work, not likely, but that would be great.

What would they have to remedy with the F37 flashes? Would they be able to restore the original power levels?

My ultimate goal is to have the trans straightened out and sufficient to back up a GDE tune, either hot or eco. The teenager in me says get all the power I can, the adult is slightly more responsible, especially when calculating fuel economy.

papaindigo · **Posted:** Tue Oct 09, 2012 8:58 am

Per another thread the Euro TC is currently on "export only" restriction and not available in the US right now. In any case an OEM warranty replacement TC will be the stock 05/06 "2n" gen TC (the one that was used in the F-37 as a replacement for the early 05 "1s" gen TC with a bad plastic part). That's unfortunate as, while the Euro was available in the US some got a Euro installed under warranty by buying the Euro (e.g. warranty covered labor, owner covered cost of Euro).

No particular reason why a dealer would refuse to install a Transgo kit while they are in there but they might refuse. If so a DIY install is not that hard.

If the front pump is bad/going bad the dealer should install the new front pump as the old design and its parts are, IIRC, no longer available.

As to the F-37 ECU and TCM flashes. If they were done they are NOT dealer reversable. NOTE - some lucky folks either never got the F-37 or, in my case, got it but the dealer "forgot" (usually at owner request) to do the TCM part of the F-37; if so your final shift point will be ca. 57-58mph as opposed to the post-F-37 62-63mph. If the latter is the case then you need to make it crystal clear during any dealer service that they are prohibited from reflashing you TCM. If you have both the ECU/TCM F-37 flashes the closest things to reversing them are the GDE EcoTune ECU flash and the basic GDE TCM flash. FYI the stock 05/06 "2n" gen TC will handle those 2 flashes just fine and probably for a long time absent heavy duty towing but I would not bet on that TC handling "hotter" GDE ECU or TCM flashes (I know from experience that TC won't handle the GDE Stage II turbo and its flash)

JDMcQ · **Joined:** Tue Sep 18, 2012 1:55 pm **Posts:** 37

As much as I would love to have the trans built to my exact specs, it is just not in the budget right now. I will, however, push the dealership to make certain concessions to my needs, such as the transgo kit.

I suppose that I will be rolling the dice somewhat on what TC they install. MoparPartsAmerica.com shows the TC part# RL037142aa (formerly 68037142aa) in stock at $323.32 + S+H, from my reading on here, I was under the impression that this was the Euro TC.

I am certainly capable of pulling the trans and likely even the pump for the full transgo install at home (and naturally the TC swap), but just not interested in doing so st this point, especially if the dealer is picking up the tab.

I go to the dealer tomorrow morning for an evaluation and the beginning of the fight to get them to take care of this situation. Thank you all for the info, it will help greatly in my discussion with them.

striperman36 · **Posted:** Tue Oct 09, 2012 2:27 pm

JDMcQ wrote:

As much as I would love to have the trans built to my exact specs, it is just not in the budget right now. I will, however, push the dealership to make certain concessions to my needs, such as the transgo kit.

I suppose that I will be rolling the dice somewhat on what TC they install. MoparPartsAmerica.com shows the TC part# RL037142aa (formerly 68037142aa) in stock at $323.32 + S+H, from my reading on here, I was under the impression that this was the Euro TC.

I am certainly capable of pulling the trans and likely even the pump for the full transgo install at home (and naturally the TC swap), but just not interested in doing so st this point, especially if the dealer is picking up the tab.

I go to the dealer tomorrow morning for an evaluation and the beginning of the fight to get them to take care of this situation. Thank you all for the info, it will help greatly in my discussion with them.

I called mpa 3 times on this one, they would not sell me that part. Someone else found a euro tc at a local Jeep Dealership, not sure how that did it.

papaindigo · **Posted:** Tue Oct 09, 2012 2:31 pm

Not to discourage you but FYI "we" are aware that Euro (the "R" prefix tranny) is listed as in stock and available but folks who have attempted to order recently have been told by company staff it's not available in the US and MrMopar64 indicated (9/22/2012) that it was on export restricted order again for some unknown reason.

That said calling and raising you know what might help or might not.

JDMcQ · **Joined:** Tue Sep 18, 2012 1:55 pm **Posts:** 37

papaindigo wrote:

Not to discourage you but FYI "we" are aware that Euro (the "R" prefix tranny) is listed as in stock and available but folks who have attempted to order recently have been told by company staff it's not available in the US and MrMopar64 indicated (9/22/2012) that it was on export restricted order again for some unknown reason.

That said calling and raising you know what might help or might not.

Not discouraged at all. Just looking for clarification. I appreciate the info.

striperman36 · **Posted:** Tue Oct 09, 2012 6:16 pm

Either way, getting the transmission and the gearbox out and on the bench is a job I never will do myself. That takes alittle bit of work.

JDMcQ · **Joined:** Tue Sep 18, 2012 1:55 pm **Posts:** 37

Rebuilding an automatic trans is something I have always wanted to do, just not on my DD while it is up on jacks stands.

European Torque Converter Question

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