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Tire delimma
http://www.lostjeeps.com/forum/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=49319		 Page 1 of 2
Author:  LibertyCRD [ Thu Jan 14, 2010 11:11 pm ]
Post subject:  Tire delimma
OK, so it's a known fact that tire weight is a significant contributor to fuel economy.

The stock tires (Goodyear Wrangler ST) weigh 27 lbs. each.

Any other brand of tire you go with in an AT tread weighs 37-45 lbs. each.

10-15 lbs. additional weight per tire is going to suck fuel economy like crazy. However, I refuse to put Wrangler ST tires back on this Jeep for multiple reasons. So I guess my only option is to suck it up and lose the fuel economy, huh?

On my previous CRD, I put 255/70-16 General AT2s on it and they weighed 41 lbs. each. I recall losing about 2 MPG if memory serves me. What have you guys noticed on yours when switching tires? :2cents:
Author:  mikey1273 [ Fri Jan 15, 2010 12:54 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Tire delimma
I put on Hercules Terra Trac AT 245/70/16 the weight lists at 33 each for them. before that I had the stock good year Silent Armor in size 235/70/16 I don't know what they weighed and they were over 90% worn especially the rears. I lost about 3 MPG but I also got the new tires about the same time as the change over to winter blend fuel. I know we loose MPG on winter fuel too so its not all the tires. The tires are great and did me so well driving about in the first big snow we had here so if I lost about 1 MPG to them so what I feel safer on good tires.
Author:  geordi [ Fri Jan 15, 2010 1:41 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Tire delimma
I stayed the same or increased my mileage by jumping to the BFG 215/85 size, next set will be 235/85 in the same LRE tires. These are BEEFY bad boys, but they are taller than stock. Wider != better b/c it increases friction, but I'm torn between the nice narrow 215 width and the 235 tire which bumps me a full 1.5 inches larger diameter and something like a 200 rev/mile reduction. Less revs DO equal less miles. Most of my driving is highway anyway, the city is all a short trip once a day... Maybe, and only about 2 miles long.

Do the 215/85 from the BF Goodrich Commercial tires. Sams Club, $112 each, and Made in the USA. You won't be sorry.
Author:  WolverineFW [ Fri Jan 15, 2010 2:00 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Tire delimma
I know I lost 1-2 mpg going from the stock tires to All-Terrain truck tires, but I feel the superior handling and grip far outweigh the extra fuel. The stock tires are junk!

If you are worried about fuel savings, you should be getting a GDE tune. ;-)
Author:  LibertyCRD [ Fri Jan 15, 2010 9:00 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Tire delimma
Yes the stock STs DO suck. When I took them off my first KJ, I was shocked at how paper thin the sidewalls are. I literally can't believe they even hold air!! No wonder they weigh 27 lbs.

Right now, I'm leaning toward the General AT2s again. $112, rim protectors, awesome tread, rated for severe snow, and come with 17/32s of tread.....can't find any other tire to match that.

But I'm interested in hearing more opinions...
Author:  TDIwyse [ Fri Jan 15, 2010 9:42 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Tire delimma
I noticed an immediate hit when I switched from a well worn set of the stock tires to the brand new Cooper Discoverer ATR 215/85/R16's. According to my mileage log it appears to be a 5-10% impact. Think it's a combination of deeper tread, heavier tires, less flexible sidewalls. Cummins has a great whitepaper on fuel efficiency which includes tire impacts.

http://www.everytime.cummins.com/assets ... epaper.pdf

I do like the better traction and more stable ride of the ATR's, just not the fuel efficiency impact.
Author:  linewarbr [ Fri Jan 15, 2010 10:29 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Tire delimma
I replaced the stockers with a set of Firestone Destination A/T 245/70/16. No rubbing, excellent traction in wet and cold. (not much snow in south Louisiana. . .) Lost about 2-3 mpg but wouldn't go back.
Author:  JL Rockies [ Fri Jan 15, 2010 10:29 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Tire delimma
When mine was stock, I was getting 26 mpg in the real world. When I added 235/85R16 MT/R, steel bumpers, winch, lift and armor I dropped to 18 mpg. Then I added 4.10 gears and now I'm at 21 mpg.
Author:  LibertyCRD [ Fri Jan 15, 2010 11:46 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Tire delimma
linewarbr wrote:
I replaced the stockers with a set of Firestone Destination A/T 245/70/16. No rubbing, excellent traction in wet and cold. (not much snow in south Louisiana. . .) Lost about 2-3 mpg but wouldn't go back.


How many miles on on your Firestones? I ran that tire in a 285/70-17 size on my Ram 1500 and at 22,000 miles they were down to 5/32s of tread remaining.
Author:  vtdog [ Fri Jan 15, 2010 1:19 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Tire delimma
I put on set of Michelin LTX 245/70 (have 65k on them now-will replace soon) and noticed no difference in MPG
Author:  ekj [ Fri Jan 15, 2010 1:44 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Tire delimma
JL Rockies wrote:
Then I added 4.10 gears and now I'm at 21 mpg.


Is that higher than stock? How does it affect everything else?
Author:  JL Rockies [ Fri Jan 15, 2010 2:02 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Tire delimma
Stock gears are 3.73. We have man-sized mountains out here and when I went to a 32" tire, the tranny would constantly downshift when I climbed the long and steep grades. As a result, I would have to turn off OD. With the new gears, I can just cruise. They also help me off road climbing over rocks. All in all it's pretty gangster.
Author:  JL Rockies [ Fri Jan 15, 2010 2:04 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Tire delimma
JL Rockies wrote:
Stock gears are 3.73. We have man-sized mountains out here and when I went to a 32" tire, the tranny would constantly downshift when I climbed the long and steep grades. As a result, I would have to turn off OD. With the new gears, I can just cruise. They also help me off road climbing over rocks. All in all it's pretty gangster.


They call me sentence fragment man in these parts.
Author:  linewarbr [ Fri Jan 15, 2010 2:10 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Tire delimma
LibertyCRD wrote:
linewarbr wrote:
I replaced the stockers with a set of Firestone Destination A/T 245/70/16. No rubbing, excellent traction in wet and cold. (not much snow in south Louisiana. . .) Lost about 2-3 mpg but wouldn't go back.


How many miles on on your Firestones? I ran that tire in a 285/70-17 size on my Ram 1500 and at 22,000 miles they were down to 5/32s of tread remaining.


I've put 20 or 25K on them and they look barely worn at all. I try to keep them at 44 psi cold.

JL Rockies wrote:
All in all it's pretty gangster.


Like "Rapper's Delight" by the Sugar Hill Gang. "On and on, and it don't stop. . . "
Author:  ac5501 [ Fri Jan 15, 2010 3:26 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Tire delimma
TDIwyse wrote:
I noticed an immediate hit when I switched from a well worn set of the stock tires to the brand new Cooper Discoverer ATR 215/85/R16's. According to my mileage log it appears to be a 5-10% impact. Think it's a combination of deeper tread, heavier tires, less flexible sidewalls. Cummins has a great whitepaper on fuel efficiency which includes tire impacts.

http://www.everytime.cummins.com/assets ... epaper.pdf

I do like the better traction and more stable ride of the ATR's, just not the fuel efficiency impact.



Thats the main reason I went with Discoverer HT as opposed to the ATR. We have ATR's on the Chevy Tracker. They are a very good tire. The Discoverer HT is more suited for Hwy driving, and has tread life 10,000 more miles then the ATR. And my Jeep, as sacrilegious as this sounds, spends almost all of its time on the HWY.

Looking at the treads side by side, its very easy to see that the ATR tread is much deeper and better for mud, snow, etc. So far I am happy with the HT's but would recomend the ATRs to anybody except those who's jeeps spends most of its life on the HWY.

One more thing for this long rant: The Discoverer CTS is the tire I really wanted. It has a tread life of 70,000 miles and is also designed more for hwy. Its just I was told that the CTS's were on permanant back order so I had to settle for the HT.
Author:  TDIwyse [ Fri Jan 15, 2010 5:07 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Tire delimma
I found the Nov 2008 Consumer Report online where they compared SUV tires:

http://access.gale.com/widgets/cr/pdfs/suvtires.pdf

The ATR's appear to have poor rolling resistance. And they didn't test too well on the wet and ice which surprised me as I've been impressed by their stickiness. Also found it interesting that they did a comparison on a Silverado with the best/worst tires and got a 2.4 mpg difference. Assuming the EPA hwy rating is around 18 mpg (http://www.fueleconomy.gov/feg/bymodel/ ... rado.shtml) that's about 13% change in fuel economy just due to tire rolling resistance. Lines up pretty closely with the Cummins whitepaper results.
Author:  RAF 3829 [ Fri Jan 15, 2010 7:37 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Tire delimma
I went with the Dayton Timberline HT II, stock size. So far, they've been good. I've had good luck with Daytons before, this'll be my 5th set.
Author:  ATXKJ [ Fri Jan 15, 2010 7:54 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Tire delimma
I went from stock to 245/75 16 MTR and lost (uncorrected) 3mpg, but MTR's are closer to 50 lbs.

I think I can go 235/85 or 265/75 and get better mileage if I go SL instead of Load grade E.
(our mountains are a lot smaller than JL_Rockies and cruising at 70+ keeps rpm too high)
Author:  LibertyCRD [ Fri Jan 15, 2010 8:58 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Tire delimma
"The Silverado got 2.4 mpg better
highway mileage with the Goodyear
Wrangler SR-A all-season tire than with
the General Grabber AT 2 all-terrain tire."

OUCH. That's my favorite tire too. :cry:
Author:  LibertyCRD [ Wed Jan 20, 2010 8:13 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Tire delimma
Well I've thought and thought about this for days. And I've read tons of reviews and I've studied the Consumer Reports article posted in this thread (thanks for posting that). And any way you cut it, significant weight is going to be added to the wheels with any tire you go with other than the stock STs and I'm NOT putting that garbage back on my Jeep. So I basically boiled it down to the following tires:

Firestone Destination A/T
Yokohama Geolandar AT/S
Goodyear Wrangler Silent Armor or DuraTrac
General Grabber AT2

I have personal experience with the Firestone and General and both are excellent tires. Both are also priced identically. So what it came down to is I used that CR article and counted the ratings on the areas that matter to me...wet braking, hydroplaning, and snow traction. And the General comes out on top.

You simply can't beat the General Grabber AT2. Yes it has some of the worst rolling resistance, but that is because it has MUCH more tread depth than it's competitors. That feature also helps it stomp the competition in the snow and mud. Throw in the good looks, 60K tread warranty, rim protector bead, and one of the lowest prices of the group and you have a true winner. The cherry on top is that they are made in the USA. :rockon:

So this CRD will be getting AT2s this weekend just like my other one had. Then...I might sell an organ and get GDE tuned.

Stay tuned. :POPCORN:
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