To buy or not to buy a CRD, that is the question.

diver110 · **Joined:** Wed Jan 13, 2010 7:03 pm **Posts:** 5

I have been focusing on the CRD as the Jeep to buy. It seemed like a good compromise, a good daily driver that I can take off road that gets good gas mileage. I test drove one and really liked it. Then I went to a meeting of the Maryland Jeep Club. Very nice group. I talked to one person who had previously owned a 2005 CRD. To say the least, he had not had a good experience. He went through multiple EGR valves, fried an alternator, had trouble with the torque converter--it was quite the parade of horrors. He also found the turbo difficult to get used to off-road (which I can understand, given the way turbo power can kick in). I did a little searching, and saw other complaints about the EGR valves, but not a lot of complaints about general reliability.

My question is, have the problems been generally addressed? Is it the kind of Jeep where you get the fixes and then you are mostly set? Or is owning a CRD more for the diesel afficionado who either likes working on diesels or who has found the rare, great mechanic that can do if for him? I don't want a Jeep that is going to be a pain to own, but I don't mind investing some money to get it up to speed, as long as after that I have reliable transportation.

AZ CRD · **Posted:** Thu Jan 14, 2010 7:15 pm

I bought my CRD for exactly those reasons. I drive it 90% of the time commuting or getting to places where I need its 4X4 capabilities. I find it very responsive off road--lots of torque when and where you need it. The turbo power is plenty smooth enough. It's not like hitting an afterburner or something.

Knock on wood--mine has been very reliable. Recently replaced the battery that survived 4 Phoenix summers. All of the window regulators were replaced--the last one with an improved after-market solution.

I did experience some air in the fuel issues a couple of times. Put in a Cummins lift pump. Problem solved. I don't worry about my EGR valve. It sits there quietly being monitored by an SEGR circuit so it won't cause any trouble.

I love the little beast. Good luck!

Glend · **Posted:** Thu Jan 14, 2010 7:37 pm

The CRD is a great engine once you have done a couple of things to ensure its longevity. Like most Jeeps, obsessive servicing is often the key to reliability. Jeeps in general are for people who like to fiddle with them, if you want something you never have to touch buy Japanese (IMHO).

ATXKJ · **Posted:** Thu Jan 14, 2010 8:26 pm

You have to be prepared to work on it.

There are no trained Technicians (Chrysler did a 45 minute video - 5 years ago)
and no shop gets enough to be familiar with it.

if you drive a lot - there is nothing comparable in size/mileage/towing capacity (or offroad capability)

LibertyCRD · **Posted:** Thu Jan 14, 2010 8:32 pm

I have to disagree with Glend. Japanese stuff (Toyota in particular) is racking up recalls faster than Lindsey Lohan racks up a liquor tab. Engines dying from sludge, driveshafts blowing up, crank shafts cracking, plastic beds on the pickups cracking, floor mats (or electronic throttle control according to some) sticking and killing people, on and on and on... Not to mention that when you do have to repair a Jap vehicle, the prices on parts are insane...if you can even find them. Everytime my buddy's Tacoma breaks down, we know it's going to sit for at least a week until he can get parts (and save up a paycheck to buy them).

Anyway... as far as the Jeep CRD goes, it's a niche vehicle in my opinion. Truthfully, it isn't as reliable as the gas model in the fact that you can just drive it and forget it. The CRD has a lot of EPA-mandated emissions garbage on it that makes it less reliable and less efficient than it could be. IF you perform the work-arounds on that stuff, and service the engine regularly...they are great engines.

Those of us who love them do so because the fuel economy, the low-end torque, and the cool tractor sound makes it worth it. I got 33 MPG on the trip from Columbus, OH to Frankfort, KY when I bought my new CRD. A gas Liberty would have been getting about 20 MPG from experience. A 13 MPG increase over gas is nothing to scoff at.

Rich · **Posted:** Thu Jan 14, 2010 10:26 pm

LibertyCRD wrote:

I have to disagree with Glend. Japanese stuff (Toyota in particular) is racking up recalls faster than Lindsey Lohan racks up a liquor tab. Engines dying from sludge, driveshafts blowing up, crank shafts cracking, plastic beds on the pickups cracking, floor mats (or electronic throttle control according to some) sticking and killing people, on and on and on... Not to mention that when you do have to repair a Jap vehicle, the prices on parts are insane...if you can even find them. Everytime my buddy's Tacoma breaks down, we know it's going to sit for at least a week until he can get parts (and save up a paycheck to buy them).

Not bad for Union Made! :mrgreen:

journeyjim · **Posted:** Fri Jan 15, 2010 2:17 am

I've never had the fuel filter problems that a lot have reported. I've done the EHM at 5000 miles after joining this forum, have changed the oil and fuel filter every 5000 miles, have run the 0-40 M1 since, change the four wheel drive fluids at 30,000 miles. I haven't had any real problems with my jeep, yes it's had all the recalls, the heater resistor was the first thing I had a problem with. You treat it right and maintain it right it will be a great jeep. :CAMPING:

Trav1s · **Posted:** Fri Jan 15, 2010 2:35 pm

I joined the board because I am pondering a CRD for my daily driver. One thing that is easy to forget is the internet is filled with horror stories about any/every vehicle but very few good stories. It seems that the key with the CRD as well as about any used vehicle is maintenance. If the records are there then you are good. Did you decide to purchase yet?

Trav1s

linewarbr · **Posted:** Fri Jan 15, 2010 2:44 pm

If you are willing to get your hands moderately dirty, willing to apply your mind to a basic understanding of how a diesel engine works compared to gasoline, and are a member of this forum - then you can easily have an excellent experience with owning a CRD. Most, if not all, of the common issues of the CRD have been addressed by members of LOST - some of whom bought the first CRD's sold in NA, and over time, trial and error, developed the engineering fixes and the general knowledge of this board.

There really is no other vehicle available in NA, new or used, that compares to the KJ CRD. Good luck with your purchase.

dgeist · **Posted:** Fri Jan 15, 2010 2:49 pm

I Agree with most of the previous posts. To add a little:

I bound my 05 CRD in April (I think) of '06 and is has been my daily driver ever since. Other than my CAC hose bursting, I haven't had any of the catastrophic issues that some have (EGR crapped out, Torque converter shattered, etc), but have had air in fuel issues, but thanks to everyone here, they are fixed and my jeep drives and gives better economy today than the day it was new. For the most part, things that become problems become problems for a lot of people, they discuss it here, and they find a solution (which is what communities are for). There don't seem to be many "random" things breaking, which means that build quality is good, but the people deciding what was going to be built cut some corners in a few places (all correctable).

If you don't mind putting a little effort into research and the occasional wrenching, the KJ CRD will keep you happy for a long time. There wasn't anything else on the road with the utility, economy, power, and fun of it when I bought it, and I don't think there has been since.

Dan

JL Rockies · **Posted:** Fri Jan 15, 2010 3:18 pm

I wouldn't have bought a KJ unless it was a CRD. I don't know how the spark infested guys do it. I bought mine used and it was a rental in it's previous life so you know it was thrashed upon. My 06 now has 96k miles on it and it's been wheeled in all terrains from coast to coast. The only problem I've had that would be specific to the CRD is the CAC hose and the turbo oil tube needed replacing.
All Jeep owners are jealous of the engine. Diesel is where it's at.

durangotang · **Posted:** Fri Jan 15, 2010 4:34 pm

JL Rockies wrote:

I wouldn't have bought a KJ unless it was a CRD. I don't know how the spark infested guys do it. I bought mine used and it was a rental in it's previous life so you know it was thrashed upon. My 06 now has 96k miles on it and it's been wheeled in all terrains from coast to coast. The only problem I've had that would be specific to the CRD is the CAC hose and the turbo oil tube needed replacing.
All Jeep owners are jealous of the engine. Diesel is where it's at.

You forgot to mention that CRD's are only for the serious enthusiast :lol:

racertracer · **Posted:** Fri Jan 15, 2010 4:59 pm

Well, I bought it just to be part of "LOSTKJS".

I needed the headaches, my life was empty without it and it is now my "raison d'être".

And I love the beast.

mikey1273 · **Posted:** Fri Jan 15, 2010 5:49 pm

I bought mine because I wanted a small SUV that got good MPG. I had a Subaru Outback before and I liked that car a lot and the Legacy I had before that had over 200k when I traded it for the Outback..... I was pretty sold on Subaru but the outback was still a car more of a county car but a car.

I learned of the CRD's because a friend and co-worker of one of my friends had one. I looked at his once didn't think much about or ask much... I thought it was cool. Then my reliable Outback started to show some age, it was still a good car tho. I was going to need a timing belt, water pump, cam seals, tires and the stering rack was leaking, I had that fixed with transX but didn't know for how long and I wanted still would like a camper. the subaru couldn't tow much. that lead me to the CRD again and here reading, learning and asking questions.

I bought mine on August 2nd. My first jeep and first diesel. I love the it, it is my DD. I have had no issues I have started to mod to make it better. the only problem I have had that was a real pain was air in the fuel after I changed the filter but now I know how to do it right. I think the Liberty CRD is the vehicle I should have bought when I got the Outback.

diver110 · **Joined:** Wed Jan 13, 2010 7:03 pm **Posts:** 5

linewarbr wrote:

If you are willing to get your hands moderately dirty, willing to apply your mind to a basic understanding of how a diesel engine works compared to gasoline, and are a member of this forum - then you can easily have an excellent experience with owning a CRD. Most, if not all, of the common issues of the CRD have been addressed by members of LOST - some of whom bought the first CRD's sold in NA, and over time, trial and error, developed the engineering fixes and the general knowledge of this board.

There really is no other vehicle available in NA, new or used, that compares to the KJ CRD. Good luck with your purchase.

I talked to 2 Jeep guys today, who I think were being straight with me. Both of whom steered me away from the CRD, saying that meshing Mercedes and Jeep technology never really worked. One said, however, that if I lived near a Dodge dealership, given the Ram diesel, I would be okay. It seems pretty clear that all of the problems are solvable, and for those with the time and inclination, this is a great board to figure all of that out.If I had a bit more time, I might be willing to get my hands dirty, but I don't. Not that much of an inclination that way to begin with, I have to admit. Manual labor has never been my thing. One of the guys I talked to also doubted you saved money over time, as the higher maintenace cost likely would offset the cost saving. Finally, I drive round trip from the east to the west coast once a year and can't count on finding someone who knows what they are doing in the middle of no where.

In any event, I very much appreciate all of the feedback, but unless one falls out of the sky dirt cheap, I am going to pass on the CRD. Now I am focused on the WJ, V8 with the up country suspension.

stoutdog · **Posted:** Sat Jan 16, 2010 2:06 pm

diver110 wrote:

linewarbr wrote:

If you are willing to get your hands moderately dirty, willing to apply your mind to a basic understanding of how a diesel engine works compared to gasoline, and are a member of this forum - then you can easily have an excellent experience with owning a CRD. Most, if not all, of the common issues of the CRD have been addressed by members of LOST - some of whom bought the first CRD's sold in NA, and over time, trial and error, developed the engineering fixes and the general knowledge of this board.

There really is no other vehicle available in NA, new or used, that compares to the KJ CRD. Good luck with your purchase.

I talked to 2 Jeep guys today, who I think were being straight with me. Both of whom steered me away from the CRD, saying that meshing Mercedes and Jeep technology never really worked. One said, however, that if I lived near a Dodge dealership, given the Ram diesel, I would be okay. It seems pretty clear that all of the problems are solvable, and for those with the time and inclination, this is a great board to figure all of that out.If I had a bit more time, I might be willing to get my hands dirty, but I don't. Not that much of an inclination that way to begin with, I have to admit. Manual labor has never been my thing. One of the guys I talked to also doubted you saved money over time, as the higher maintenace cost likely would offset the cost saving. Finally, I drive round trip from the east to the west coast once a year and can't count on finding someone who knows what they are doing in the middle of no where.

In any event, I very much appreciate all of the feedback, but unless one falls out of the sky dirt cheap, I am going to pass on the CRD. Now I am focused on the WJ, V8 with the up country suspension.

Your choice, but I will say that IMO most of the fretting over maintenance costs/time is a little over blown. My family and I have owned three CRDs and the only maintenance we have ever had to do on them (besides routine stuff) is replace a leaky fuel filter. Everything else we have done has been for sheer enjoyment/mpg/driveability.

There are a number of potential issues; but there are plenty of those with any vehicle. Besides, most of those issues are solved with the GDE tune, which can be paid for in 2-3 years of normal driving.

If you want mpg, towing power, and off road capabilities, you will not find another vehicle that comes close to the CRD. At least, not in the same price range. You can take that to the bank.

As for making up the money overall... compare my 32-35 on the highway with the low 20s that a gasser gets. Or my 26-27 in town, with the high 10s a gasser gets. I don't feel like doing the math, but I can say that you are saving ~$20 a fill up by driving a CRD. My best tank was almost 200 miles more than I've heard any gasser going. Heck, I made it across the U.S. in three fill ups, costing me all of ~$140.

On top of that, if you aren't the kind of person who owns a vehicle for 3-5 years and then gets a new one, the CRD will last you for many more miles than a gasser. I plan on driving mine until she croaks, which hopefully won't be for 10-15 more years.

linewarbr · **Posted:** Sat Jan 16, 2010 2:17 pm

diver110 wrote:

I talked to 2 Jeep guys today, who I think were being straight with me. Both of whom steered me away from the CRD, saying that meshing Mercedes and Jeep technology never really worked. One said, however, that if I lived near a Dodge dealership, given the Ram diesel, I would be okay. It seems pretty clear that all of the problems are solvable, and for those with the time and inclination, this is a great board to figure all of that out.If I had a bit more time, I might be willing to get my hands dirty, but I don't. Not that much of an inclination that way to begin with, I have to admit. Manual labor has never been my thing. One of the guys I talked to also doubted you saved money over time, as the higher maintenace cost likely would offset the cost saving. Finally, I drive round trip from the east to the west coast once a year and can't count on finding someone who knows what they are doing in the middle of no where.

In any event, I very much appreciate all of the feedback, but unless one falls out of the sky dirt cheap, I am going to pass on the CRD. Now I am focused on the WJ, V8 with the up country suspension.

Those Jeep guys you talked to demonstrated their lack of knowledge by saying it is a Mercedes engine. The engine in the Grand Cherokee is a Mercedes engine; the KJ has a VM Motori engine. VM Motori is an Italian engine manufacturer.

The 2.8 VM Motori engine in the KJ is like the Chevy 350 of the diesel world. It is rare in an automobile in the States, but somewhat common in marine applications, and was widely available in Chrysler products sold overseas as early as 2003. (IIRC) The engine was recently updated for European applications with some changes to the internals and with more horsepower and torque.

The whole reason that this forum exists - and is ans active as it is - is because the dealerships can't help us. We help each other and do BETTER than the dealerships. If you are the type of owner that buys a vehicle and a service contract from the dealer to take it there every time it needs something, then the CRD is not for you.

In 45,000 miles of ownership, the hardest thing I've ever done on my KJ is change the transmission oil and filters - something not specific to diesel. Everything I've done that was diesel-specific has been accomplished easily through instructions on this website.

Do you really prefer to listen to a couple of Jeep dealership guys that don't even know what kind of engine the KJ CRD has, or do you want to listen to a vibrant online community of owners who know these vehicles inside and out?

diver110 · **Joined:** Wed Jan 13, 2010 7:03 pm **Posts:** 5

Do you really prefer to listen to a couple of Jeep dealership guys that don't even know what kind of engine the KJ CRD has, or do you want to listen to a vibrant online community of owners who know these vehicles inside and out?[/quote]

First of all, let be clear that in no way did I mean to denigrate this board, which I think is great. My concern is that I am busy and have limited amount of time to work on a vehicle myself. But I would love to get the better MGP, believe me. I drove the CRD and loved it. Wonderful torque. So let me ask this:

1. How hard and time consuming is it to do the basic stuff that is likely to go wrong? If not that big of a deal, you could still talk me into this. I know there is this board, but is there anything anyone would suggest I read.

2. I live about half of the year in CA, and there seem to be very few CRDs out west. How much should I worry about that? If I hit on something I can't handle, I want to be able to get it fixed, though there are plenty of Dodge Ram guys out there.

3. As I discussed, I drive cross country once a year (sometimes round trip). I worry about having a significant problem in the middle of nowhere. If I get up to speed on #1, is this mostly a nonissue?

Again, many thanks.

stoutdog · **Posted:** Sat Jan 16, 2010 4:18 pm

diver110 wrote:

Do you really prefer to listen to a couple of Jeep dealership guys that don't even know what kind of engine the KJ CRD has, or do you want to listen to a vibrant online community of owners who know these vehicles inside and out?

First of all, let be clear that in no way did I mean to denigrate this board, which I think is great. My concern is that I am busy and have limited amount of time to work on a vehicle myself. But I would love to get the better MGP, believe me. I drove the CRD and loved it. Wonderful torque. So let me ask this:

1. How hard and time consuming is it to do the basic stuff that is likely to go wrong? If not that big of a deal, you could still talk me into this. I know there is this board, but is there anything anyone would suggest I read. Most basic service can be done in < one hour. And a little preventative maintenance will go a long way to keeping anything major from popping up. Some of the most common concerns (CAC hoses busting, air in fuel, EGR failures) can be circumvented with a little $ and 30 minutes of your time.

2. I live about half of the year in CA, and there seem to be very few CRDs out west. How much should I worry about that? If I hit on something I can't handle, I want to be able to get it fixed, though there are plenty of Dodge Ram guys out there. There are a few CRDers in CA that you could talk to more specifically about this, but I wouldn't be too concerned. I found a diesel-only place in AZ that is familiar with our engine. If I ever have any major engine failure, I'll take it to them (or fix it myself)

3. As I discussed, I drive cross country once a year (sometimes round trip). I worry about having a significant problem in the middle of nowhere. If I get up to speed on #1, is this mostly a nonissue?I've never broken down. I mean, theoretically, I guess it could happen... but it could happen with any vehicle. As long as you do the 4-5 basic preventative maintenance things that are elsewhere on this board, you should be just fine.

Again, many thanks.[/quote]

painemann · **Joined:** Sat Dec 20, 2008 7:02 pm **Posts:** 607

LibertyCRD wrote:

I have to disagree with Glend. Japanese stuff (Toyota in particular) is racking up recalls faster than Lindsey Lohan racks up a liquor tab. Engines dying from sludge, driveshafts blowing up, crank shafts cracking, plastic beds on the pickups cracking, floor mats (or electronic throttle control according to some) sticking and killing people, on and on and on... Not to mention that when you do have to repair a Jap vehicle, the prices on parts are insane...if you can even find them. Everytime my buddy's Tacoma breaks down, we know it's going to sit for at least a week until he can get parts (and save up a paycheck to buy them).

Anyway... as far as the Jeep CRD goes, it's a niche vehicle in my opinion. Truthfully, it isn't as reliable as the gas model in the fact that you can just drive it and forget it. The CRD has a lot of EPA-mandated emissions garbage on it that makes it less reliable and less efficient than it could be. IF you perform the work-arounds on that stuff, and service the engine regularly...they are great engines.

Those of us who love them do so because the fuel economy, the low-end torque, and the cool tractor sound makes it worth it. I got 33 MPG on the trip from Columbus, OH to Frankfort, KY when I bought my new CRD. A gas Liberty would have been getting about 20 MPG from experience. A 13 MPG increase over gas is nothing to scoff at.

Yes, please don't tell people to buy Japanese stuff, its not what its made out to be and we need American money going back into America! Look at the way Ford has turned around! Lets just hope the other to can do the same!

To buy or not to buy a CRD, that is the question.

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