While installing the SEGR last weekend, I noticed again (and had previously noticed) what looked like melted black plastic spattered over the top of the engine. I puzzled over where it might have come from. However, I have been chasing an exhaust smell in the cabin when stopped at lights with the HVAC turned on, and when I read a similar issue here that was traced to leaking injector seals, I took a second look. What I found was the #4 injector surrounded by this black plastic looking "stuff" which I originally thought was just drool from the CCV puck. After I scraped on it with a long flat blade screwdriver, I found out it was mostly soot mixed with a little bit of oil.

Yep.....#4 seals are shot. Of course, it has to be the furthest one to the back with the least access.... but anyway, I picked up new o-rings and seals from my local dealer and started on it last night. I spent a good 2 hours+ excavating the injector clamp so I could remove it and then further excavating around the injector, slowly scraping away the petrified, solidfied remains of soot and oil (coal, basically). I let the rest of it soak in a bit of Liquid Wrench overnight, but getting the injector out is not going to be easy.

I see what the factory removal tool looks like - does anyone have suggestions on a DIY method? There isn't much access back there, although I did remove the wire harness and fuel line from #3 which helps.

I'm guessing the seal has been leaking for at least 10 to 15k miles, so hopefully the injector and sealing surface in the head aren't eroded.

Is there anything on this vehicle that holds up? Sorry to rant, but thermostats, alternator pulleys, EGRs, FCVs, torque converters, ball joints, brakes, u-joints, rear diffs at 80k, glow plugs, fuel filter housings, motor mounts, injector seals, transmissions even.

Chris

_________________
'02 Jetta TDI Wagon 5 spd (mine)
'10 Outback (her's)
'05 CRD Sport (hangar queen)

It always has to be the most difficult one to get at. There are a few members that have the Miller tool sets, perhaps you could borrow the injector removal tool. If all else fails I have the tool, but live in Canada so shipping is not cheap. The tool is quite simple, you may be able to rig something up.

_________________
06 LIMITED 100000miles, MAGNAFLOW, HOMEBUILT CCV FILTER, POLAR PAD, 02 AIRBOX, CUMMINS LIFT PUMP, SEGR, PILLAR GAUGE POD, CAT FILTER MONITOR, SPYDER TRAX, ALWAYS A LITTLE TWO STROKE OIL OR BIO, WATER/METH INJECTION

Thanks for the offer and ideas - I have a coworker that literally has an auto shop in his garage (purchased a bankrupt auto repair/garage) and has a lot of specialty tool sets.

I could also fabricate something either along the lines of the "official" tool or more like the slide hammer tool used on the VW TDI injectors, but insead using the step on the injector body as the grip surface.

_________________
'02 Jetta TDI Wagon 5 spd (mine)
'10 Outback (her's)
'05 CRD Sport (hangar queen)

Maybe I'm lucky but I had none of these problems and I consider the CRD as well built as other vehicles I owned. Of course it not built like a tank like the vehicles of the sixties to mid seventies but there had been lots of improvments in many areas. Maybe you should have your friend evauate the total condition of your vehicle to see if it is worth keeping after this repair.

_________________
2006 Black Jeep Liberty CRD Limited
K&N, Samco Hoses, Michelin 245/70-16 LTX A/T2, Fumoto F-102, V-Force Muffler, Mopar, Hitch, Trailer Wiring, Skid Plates, Slush Mats, Rear Shelf, Predator Stage 1, Transgo, ORM & CodeReader, Facet 40109 Pump
"IT'S A DIESEL THING, YOU WOULDN'T UNDERSTAND"
Certified Services Auto & Truck Repair

Just to clarify, we have not had all of these issues with OUR CRD, but from what I have read here over the years, there is a disturbing trend with major failures of expensive parts occuring at low mileage.

In reality, our CRD has only had issues with 2 failed FCVs and 4 failed EGRs, two sets of front LBJ, a bad U-joint, the loose motor mounts, leaking injector seal, a smoking rear brake, a bad front wheel bearing, and a weak thermostat, which aside from being $100, slides into normal maintenance - all at under 78,000 miles.

Now that I've finally installed my SEGR kit, the FCV/EGR problem goes away, but still, these are problems I would expect at 150,000 miles.

I agree that overall, the Liberty CRD is well built. It's been my wife's car, but now that we bought an '10 Outback for her, I've been driving the CRD a bit while installing the SEGR, fixing the injector leak, etc. and I must say it drives really nice. It's almost given me reason to keep the CRD, but yet I have worked as a Chrysler supplier and know the mentality used to design the parts and vehicles - take cost out until it ceases to function, then put the last cost reduction back in and make sure it makes it out of warranty.

My TDI is older, has twice the mileage, yet has had half the problems, and VWs aren't exactly known for lack of problems. But at least my TDI didn't require how many TSB reflashes to the ECM and TCM to keep it from self destructing....

_________________
'02 Jetta TDI Wagon 5 spd (mine)
'10 Outback (her's)
'05 CRD Sport (hangar queen)

Well, I worked another 2 hours on it tonight and the #4 injector is NOT coming out with anything except the VM special tool or a copy that I'll have to fabricate. I tried to make up something quick and simple today but it just doesn't have enough force and strength to do the job. That sucker is FUSED in there!

I see the tool is $322....OUCH! Does anyone have one they would loan out near Chicago? I'd pay shipping both ways and cover your trouble, too. It doesn't make sense to buy one to pull one injector and (hopefully) never need it again.

I could make one out of mild steel easily (and free) if it would be strong enough to pull out the injector without bending or mushrooming over. Maybe I'll swing by work tomorrow a.m. and hit the scrap rack and see what I can make up quick first......and then come back here to beg if it doesn't work.

_________________
'02 Jetta TDI Wagon 5 spd (mine)
'10 Outback (her's)
'05 CRD Sport (hangar queen)

maybe you can modified a steering wheel puller like this one to pull instead of pushing the injector.

http://www.millerspecialtools.spx.com/D ... 1052&gid=2

The injector puller looks like this.


http://www.millerspecialtools.spx.com/D ... px?id=1313

_________________
2006 Black Jeep Liberty CRD Limited
K&N, Samco Hoses, Michelin 245/70-16 LTX A/T2, Fumoto F-102, V-Force Muffler, Mopar, Hitch, Trailer Wiring, Skid Plates, Slush Mats, Rear Shelf, Predator Stage 1, Transgo, ORM & CodeReader, Facet 40109 Pump
"IT'S A DIESEL THING, YOU WOULDN'T UNDERSTAND"
Certified Services Auto & Truck Repair

Great minds think alike!!

That first tool is exactly what I'm using as a base point - I have two different sizes of cross bars, and I've been trying to rig up a way to use them to pull on the injector. My first idea was simply to cut a 1" long section of heavy wall tube with 3/4" ID in half lengthwise and weld a nut to the outside of each half. Then, clamp those around the injector and use two threaded rods to pull on the injector. That didn't work out as well as I thought - just not enough room around the injector for rods, nuts, hose clamp, etc.

So, now I'm back to the Miller tool idea and make a fork that fits over the holddown clamp machined flats and wraps over the top of the injector so the threaded rod pulls right down the centerline axis of the injector. Hopefully I can get away with something from mild steel, although I do have a great machine shop I work with that could make me a part out of A2 tool steel or maybe just 4140 pre-hard.

Either way, I know it's going to be a buggar because of how long that seal has been leaking. But it's coming out, by God! Either I'll rip the injector in half or set the P.O.S. on fire and just melt the aluminum head from around it. Bring your weenies!

_________________
'02 Jetta TDI Wagon 5 spd (mine)
'10 Outback (her's)
'05 CRD Sport (hangar queen)

http://img251.imageshack.us/i/dsc00086c.jpg/
http://img215.imageshack.us/i/dsc00087oj.jpg/
http://img691.imageshack.us/i/dsc00091da.jpg/

Hope this helps

_________________
06 LIMITED 100000miles, MAGNAFLOW, HOMEBUILT CCV FILTER, POLAR PAD, 02 AIRBOX, CUMMINS LIFT PUMP, SEGR, PILLAR GAUGE POD, CAT FILTER MONITOR, SPYDER TRAX, ALWAYS A LITTLE TWO STROKE OIL OR BIO, WATER/METH INJECTION

Yes, indeed. Thank you! I just got home from making up my own version. It's not as robust (or as pretty) as the Miller tool, but it might do the job. Keep your fingers crossed!

_________________
'02 Jetta TDI Wagon 5 spd (mine)
'10 Outback (her's)
'05 CRD Sport (hangar queen)

I have won the battle! There was no way without some sort of puller that the injector would have ever come out of the head. Essentially, the entire injector was encased in petrified soot, so the o-ring had no place to go during extraction. It mangled itself into a black booger, and the injector required force to remove the entire way, which has to be close to 3".

I hooked up some 1/4" ID PVC tubing to my shop vac and scraped and wire brushed the remaining soot from the injector bore and surrounding area. Now I'm ready to go fish for the copper washer at the bottom, but I need to go pick up an o-ring pick set so I can hook it out and clean up the seating surface at the bottom.

I think I've spent 10 or 12 hours at least on this so far, and I wouldn't wish this on anyone else....and if I'd known it was going to be that difficult to remove the injector, I would have ordered the proper tool immediately. $330 is a small price to pay for my sanity and wasted time.

I'll be praying to whomever will listen that the new seals actually seal.

_________________
'02 Jetta TDI Wagon 5 spd (mine)
'10 Outback (her's)
'05 CRD Sport (hangar queen)

Cheers! Now all you have to do is mass produce your tool and make some money to pay for all your labour.

_________________
06 LIMITED 100000miles, MAGNAFLOW, HOMEBUILT CCV FILTER, POLAR PAD, 02 AIRBOX, CUMMINS LIFT PUMP, SEGR, PILLAR GAUGE POD, CAT FILTER MONITOR, SPYDER TRAX, ALWAYS A LITTLE TWO STROKE OIL OR BIO, WATER/METH INJECTION

Chances are the washer is going to be a Bearcat too. I have a set of dental picks I use, you know there not going to break off an end up......you know where!

_________________
06 LIMITED 100000miles, MAGNAFLOW, HOMEBUILT CCV FILTER, POLAR PAD, 02 AIRBOX, CUMMINS LIFT PUMP, SEGR, PILLAR GAUGE POD, CAT FILTER MONITOR, SPYDER TRAX, ALWAYS A LITTLE TWO STROKE OIL OR BIO, WATER/METH INJECTION

Good job on making the tool and getting the injector out in one piece. I just purchased the three pins for the timing belt change and think it's worth the $100 including shipping. These pins have threads on them so they screw on and won't fall out while you are changing the belt. If I have to remove the intake/valve cover assembly, I will surely have the puller to make the job easier. It is less costly than replacing one ruin injector. I'm still about a year away from the belt change and will inspect the entire motor before going forward. Of course it will get a water pump, idlers and tensioner with the belt, just want to make sure that it's not leaking oil, whether it be the cams, crank or valve cover.

_________________
2006 Black Jeep Liberty CRD Limited
K&N, Samco Hoses, Michelin 245/70-16 LTX A/T2, Fumoto F-102, V-Force Muffler, Mopar, Hitch, Trailer Wiring, Skid Plates, Slush Mats, Rear Shelf, Predator Stage 1, Transgo, ORM & CodeReader, Facet 40109 Pump
"IT'S A DIESEL THING, YOU WOULDN'T UNDERSTAND"
Certified Services Auto & Truck Repair

Actually, getting the washer out was a non-event. I thought about how I could do it, being too lazy and tired to go into town to buy that pick set. I then spotted my easy-outs, and found one that would match the I.D. of the copper washer at the halfway point up the easy-out. I stuck it in a length of fuel line, 1/4" I.D. I believe, stuck it down the hole, gave it a twist and it popped that washer off and pulled it out.

Once I saw the washer, the root cause was obvious - the injector had been torqued down where it was not perfectly vertical, so the depth of the sealing indentation around the washer from the injector was not uniform. It was leaking where the depth was shallowest (no big surprise). I also noticed that the injector doesn't fit well into the engine - I figured the O-ring would fit tightly to the bore and center the injector. It doesn't, so it's easy to wobble the injector around prior to tightening the hold down clamp. I think the injector dimensions don't match what the engine was designed for, hence why there have been several leaking injector seals on CRDs. At least that's my opinon, FWIW.

I'm waiting for the epoxy to cure on one of the little plastic return line fittings. I broke off one of the nipples. So, once that is ready, I can fire it up and see what happens!

_________________
'02 Jetta TDI Wagon 5 spd (mine)
'10 Outback (her's)
'05 CRD Sport (hangar queen)

I've learned that money spent on the proper tools up front pays back BIG TIME in the end. I'm close to doing the TB change on my Jetta again, and it's a big job, but having the proper cam locking plate, inj. pump pin, cam puller, cam belt tensioner and serp. belt tools, the job goes smoothly. This injector saga was a perfect example of not having the proper tools. I'd have been done 3 days ago if I had the Miller tool. But I can buy all the TDI timing belt tools for less than the Miller tool.....but it's hard to put a price on my sanity.

_________________
'02 Jetta TDI Wagon 5 spd (mine)
'10 Outback (her's)
'05 CRD Sport (hangar queen)

I wrapped it up this morning with my repaired return line tee and some new viton return lines. I was getting worried as it was cranking and cranking and I saw the CEL lit up. I checked all my connections, tried the second time. Still no start. Purged the fuel filter one more time and the third time was a charm! Whew! All 4 cylinders are running and I can't hear (or smell) anything leaking past any of the injector seals now.

Gotta run some errands today, so I'll take it out and see how it does...

Chris

_________________
'02 Jetta TDI Wagon 5 spd (mine)
'10 Outback (her's)
'05 CRD Sport (hangar queen)

Good job.

Thanks! I did have a small fuel leak upon returning from the "shakedown cruise", and found the fitting that threads into the injector was a bit loose. Evidently I didn't tighten it enough or as well as I thought I did, but a few minutes of wrangling and cussing trying to get a 12mm and a 17mm wrench back there at the same time got things snugged up and no more leaks.

I must say, it's a real pleasure to drive now with the SEGR improving the throttle response, fuel mileage, and smoke output and no exhaust smell through the vents when stopped.

Oh, one last thing - I found it mildly amusing that the fuel injector is like 8" long, maybe even more. When it finally popped free it was like "whoa! put that thing away!"

_________________
'02 Jetta TDI Wagon 5 spd (mine)
'10 Outback (her's)
'05 CRD Sport (hangar queen)