Started on the timing belt today. I have some conflicting information. Can anyone verify what is correct?

1) The GDE writeup shows a photo with the VM 1052 in the exhaust position and VM 1053 in the intake position installed in the motor. Alldata mentions VM 1052 intake and VM 1053 exhaust which is where I currently have them. They went in fine no resistance whatsoever all the way flush. It looks like the ones in GDE's writeup did also.

2) Tht CRD timing tech writeup on lostjeeps (http://www.lostjeeps.com/forum/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=98&t=45522) mentions "aligning marks" on the cam gears. Alldata specifically mentions this:
"INSTALLATION

NOTE: There are marks on both camshaft gears. These ARE NOT alignment marks and should be disregarded."

3) Both Alldata and GDE writeup mention a timing mark on the injection pump gear. I do not see a mark on mine, my injection pump timing would have to be off enough for the mark to be covered by the belt. Is it possible to be that far off and still run fine?

4) Alldata states to remove VM 1052 and VM 1053 before installing cam locking tool VM 1085. GDE's writeup does not mention removing them at this time.


My cam gears' alignment marks are off about 1 tooth from each other, if indeed they are for alignment. I do not want to take the belt off to look for the mark on the back side of the injection pump gear that is covered by the belt w/o locking things into place first with the VM 1085 tool.

Any help is appreciated

--Mark

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Previous-05 CRD KJ;Current-2010 Taurus SHO Twin Turbo (450HP), 2014 Subaru Forester Turbo (stock)

Well, that was quick...Just talked to Keith at GDE...Impressed he answered his work phone on the weekend. Thanks for the tech support Keith!

1) The correct position for the VM 1052 is Intake and 1053 is Exhaust
2) The cam gears move independently from the cam shafts when the bolt is loosened, they are not keyed so the "alignment marks" may not line up and their locations are insignificant.
3) The Injection pump has 3 pump cycles, if not aligned correctly fuel pressure can be reduced during an injection if it is between cycles.
4) The VM 1052 and VM 1053 pins should remain in place until timing belt installation is complete. These lock the camshafts in place to ensure the engine is timed correctly. This is especially important since the cam gears can move independently from the camshafts when the cam bolts are loose.

About to remove the belt and see if I can find a timing mark on the Injection pump. I'll let you all know how it works out.

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Previous-05 CRD KJ;Current-2010 Taurus SHO Twin Turbo (450HP), 2014 Subaru Forester Turbo (stock)

just did my belt install today. at 105250 miles
there is a mark on inj pump as shown on gde's instructions
there is mark on crank end. correct position is 3 0 clock
the cam locking pins are marked E exhaust I intake
get motor in position with the three locking pins.
use vm tool 1055 to hold cam gears while you unlosen cam bolts
dont belive cam locking pins were made to hold up to this torque.
remove belt
replace idler pulleys LEFT HAND THREAD
replace tensioner
install new belt
with pump marks lined up its right under bolt on inner belt cover used mirror to see it
tenson tensioner use vm tool 1055 to hold cams & torque cam bolts
readjust timing belt tensioner as it will be differet after cam bolt torque
being the daredevel I am
I replaced outer belt cover,crank damper and fired up
chrysers 06 manual states cam marks and pump marks are to be disregarded!!??
thanks to this site & gde to filling in gray aera
really was similar to vw timing belt.

Would do this job for you at my dealership.
due to libality issues & 1 year 12000 mile warranty
PM if intersted.

Thanks, but I'm nearly done. Just working on the waterpump, now that is a pain to get to...not sure how I'm gonna get that one off yet. lol Any tips?

As you know, the cam gear marks are only useless due to the fact that they aren't keyed and can move separate from camshafts. The injection pump mark may be in 1 of 3 different positions: mark on pump at alignment mark, mark on pump gear 1/3 rotation past and mark on pump gear 2/3 rotation past as far as it being "aligned". This is supposedly due to the 3 stage pump and optimal pump cycle/injection timing. It probably doesn't matter due to the fact that there are 4 combustion cycles of the engine and 3 pump cycles on the injection pump. lol Thats probably why the service manual says to disregard those marks.

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Previous-05 CRD KJ;Current-2010 Taurus SHO Twin Turbo (450HP), 2014 Subaru Forester Turbo (stock)

manual says 4 easy steps..... LOL
disconnect battery
drain coolant
remove outer & inner timing covers
remove water pump retainng bolts & pump

got nearly 250k out of my vw waterpump
using BG coolant flushes every 50k
hope this one lasts just as long

as far as the inj pump
i rotated my engine CLOCKWISE ONLY
till crank pully and injection pump marks were at the same as GDE timing photos
this is where crank & cam pins installed
90 degrees ATDC
just to simple not to line up inj pump marks
esp since mine were from manufacturer

if the gears aren't keyed do they have splines? or is it just a friction fit to the camshaft?

I wondering because I getting ready to remove the timing belt in my wifes jeep. while I'm changing the CP3

also is it necessary to loosen the cam gears? I'll have the injector pump gear off already.

-dkenny

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84 BB school bus, DD8.2L turbo ->the transmission died..too expensive to fix..it'll be heading to the scrap yard..4/11)..Bus gone to Scarp 8/23/11
06 Liberty CRD
'99 dodge ram 2500 quad cab, 4x4, 24v
all Biodiesel powered when its warm enough

The camshafts are cut for keys, but the camgears are not...LOL. So to answer your question, they are just held in place by the torque of the bolts (sad because if they are not torqued properly they could slip ). Their position doesn't matter. I am going to align their marks up after I am all done just so when i do it next time I can see if they moved at all in 100k miles. lol
Loosening the gears allows the cog teeth to center between the new belt ribs properly and helps you get the belt on easier, you will torque those down last.

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Previous-05 CRD KJ;Current-2010 Taurus SHO Twin Turbo (450HP), 2014 Subaru Forester Turbo (stock)

I was afraid they did it that way..no splines or keys..make me even more nervous about changing the timing belt. now I really want to figure out how without loosing the camgear nuts..I'd rather remove one of the idler pulleys.

thanks

-dkenny

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84 BB school bus, DD8.2L turbo ->the transmission died..too expensive to fix..it'll be heading to the scrap yard..4/11)..Bus gone to Scarp 8/23/11
06 Liberty CRD
'99 dodge ram 2500 quad cab, 4x4, 24v
all Biodiesel powered when its warm enough

You can probably do the belt w/o loosening them (not that I would recommend it), but if you just torque them to the specified 80 ft lbs, your good. They run in a direction that self tightens anyway so they went on the safe side. Just re-torque and you're set.
You DO have to remove them to get the inner timing cover off anyway if you are doing the waterpump at the same time.

I just did mine and so far all is good...then again I haven't started it yet...lol I should get my ECU in the mail tomorrow from GDE (finally got the Hot tune ) so then we'll see.

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Previous-05 CRD KJ;Current-2010 Taurus SHO Twin Turbo (450HP), 2014 Subaru Forester Turbo (stock)

I wouldn't. The camshaft locking pins only sit in a dimple on the camshafts.
As you torque up the belt the tensioning process can roll one of the camshafts off the lock pin. Then your timing is out by a tooth or two, which these engines cannot accomodate.
I strongly recommend using the correct tools.

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05 CRD Renegade

after putting the CP3 back in tonight..then trying to get the old timing belt back on..
yes the right tools would make it easier. if I didn't have to mess with the CP3 I don't think it can be done without loosening the cam gears. the idle pulley are captive to the bolts(left hand thread) and don't provide any slack for installing the timing belt.

-dkenny

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84 BB school bus, DD8.2L turbo ->the transmission died..too expensive to fix..it'll be heading to the scrap yard..4/11)..Bus gone to Scarp 8/23/11
06 Liberty CRD
'99 dodge ram 2500 quad cab, 4x4, 24v
all Biodiesel powered when its warm enough

For anyone who might be interested, I just sold my CRD but have some parts leftover since I was about to change the timing belt (152k miles). The parts that I have which are brand new (the timing belt box has never been opened) are the following:

* Timing belt
* Dayco poly cog serpentine belt
* Miller VM-1052 camshaft tool
* Miller VM-1053 camshaft tool

* also have one set of Raybestos rear trailing arm bushings (front and rear bushings). I am willing to sacrifice for much less than what I paid.

Ok, just did my timing belt, water pump, and thermostat.

First, a big thanks to GDE for the excellent write up. That helped a lot.
The first thing to keep in mind that on mine, all fixed idler pulleys were LEFT HAND Thread! Inside and out.
Use the tools to hold the cams! I made my own using a couple of letter “I” drill bits and some special machining to make my own cam holders. It’s easier to rent or borrow the correct tools. Also lock the crank. GDE’s write up shows you how.

Markings on my cam sprockets were not even close. They can be anywhere as others have noted.
Injection pump marking on mine would line up every third (cam) go-around. (In other words, every 6 crankshaft revolutions, the injection pump mark would line up).
I used a magic marker and made reference marks on the crank, pump, cams, etc. before I undid anything.
The timing belt change is Ok, but that water pump is a pain in the rear. You have to remove the cam sprockets to pull the aluminum back shell off to get to the water pump bolts.
The only other note I will add is when you torque down the cam bolts (80 foot pounds), use a large screwdriver (or equivalent) to hold the cam sprockets so you are not having the lock pins or new timing belt trying to hold all that torque.

It took me about 12 hours but I was in no hurry. It started and runs good.

Anybody else having done this, please add in any other things that are not clear.

Interessted in the Miller tools and belts. Please PM me about them.

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No longer a CRD or Jeep owner. Selling everything I have, needs to go as I need the room for a project.

Glad to see that you guys are taking care of your timing belts! We are just emerging from the painful experience of having broken a timing belt. We purchased a used 2006 CRD with no records. We use our Lib comercially. Setting aside the TB which broke at 142k our CRD gets all the regularly scheduled maintenace that it should receive. Interestingly, the independent diesel service shop my friend owns stated that the timing belt had been changed once after its OEM belt had been changed. Just a few days before the TB broke I read through the posts on TB service and thought, "well, I don't know about the history of TB service so I should probably do it...", and then not 2 or 3 days later disaster struck.

Diagnostics revealed that several of the rocker arms sacrificed their lives to save the valves impacting pistons. I believe I read here in the forum somwhere that the rocker arms were designed and manufactured to be "pre-stressed" to fail in the event of a TB failure. A very (and expensive!) borescope confirmed that no valves broke causing cylinder wall damage. When the borescope was turned upward it revealed that none of the valves were damaged/bent. Whew! About $2500 later we are back on the road. With the temps (ozone degradation of rubber?) we see here in Florida we will probably change our TB well before the suggested change interval.

I wanted too, to express my appreciation for the great resource this site is for CRDs. It has made the above experience, uh, less painful.

Happy motoring

Thats not as bad as I thought, i figured we were looking at 5K with a timing belt break, glad theres some safties they engineered in there.

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Previous-05 CRD KJ;Current-2010 Taurus SHO Twin Turbo (450HP), 2014 Subaru Forester Turbo (stock)

I am afraid to ask because I am sure it must be painfully obvious, but where can I find GDE's write-up on changing the timing belt please?

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05 Silver KJ Limited CRD born July 11, 2005
'88 Suzuki Samurai 4x4
'99 1/2 Powerstroke 4 door Dually 4x4
Kubota B7200 Diesel 4x4
Polaris 700 and 500 H.O. 4x4

Heres the pdf file from green diesel.

http://www.keepandshare.com/doc/1729864 ... 8-meg?da=y

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Horse Power: How fast you hit a wall.
Torque: How much of the wall you take with you.

06 CRD
OME HD w/clevis top plate
JBA 4.5 UCAs
245/75/16r Goodyear Duratrax
Fumoto Valve, V6 ABM
Rock Lizard Super Skinks
Cobra 75 WX ST
ECO GDE tune, 2.5 straight piped
ProVent, Samcoed
Non F37ed TCM
DieHard P1