MAP Sensor cleaning issues...BE VERY CAREFUL!

Hjalti · **Posted:** Wed Apr 21, 2010 8:37 am

Hi there, I cleaned mine two times with carburetor cleaner and soon after the second cleaning it malfunctioned, the CEL turned on and associated limp mode followed. There were no mods in my engine bay. I link this premature failing to the cleaning of the MAP sensor.

flman · **Posted:** Wed Apr 21, 2010 7:47 pm

Hjalti wrote:

Hi there, I cleaned mine two times with carburetor cleaner and soon after the second cleaning it malfunctioned, the CEL turned on and associated limp mode followed. There were no mods in my engine bay. I link this premature failing to the cleaning of the MAP sensor.

There you go, excessive cleaning or Analism take your pick :lol:

linewarbr · **Posted:** Thu Apr 22, 2010 10:07 am

Hjalti, most likely a chemical component in the carburetor cleaner did the damage - most likely something as simple as causing brittleness in the O-Ring on the sensor allowing an air leak.

When I first read on here about cleaning the MAP sensor, the writers cautioned to use either diesel fuel or non-chlorine brake parts cleaner to remove the gunk from the MAP sensor. viewtopic.php?f=98&t=22630

liberty2.8 · **Posted:** Sun May 02, 2010 2:19 pm

Well, after dealing with the sporadic limp mode and after reading this thread, I think I might try purchasing a new MAP sensor. I have cleaned mine twice, first when I first bought it with around 48,000 miles. It was really cruddy. I then did the ORM and the second time I cleaned it around 20,000 later, it was basically clean. That is around the time I started getting the limp mode. I have priced it online and it looks like around $85.00. Anybody find it cheaper?

journeyjim · **Posted:** Sun May 02, 2010 3:53 pm

I've got the EHM and had to clean the sensor once since it was put on, had a little crust on it, took some carb cleaner and sprayed it, the crust disolved and let it dry and put it back in.

liberty2.8 · **Posted:** Wed Jun 02, 2010 12:49 pm

liberty2.8 wrote:

Well, after dealing with the sporadic limp mode and after reading this thread, I think I might try purchasing a new MAP sensor. I have cleaned mine twice, first when I first bought it with around 48,000 miles. It was really cruddy. I then did the ORM and the second time I cleaned it around 20,000 later, it was basically clean. That is around the time I started getting the limp mode. I have priced it online and it looks like around $85.00. Anybody find it cheaper?

Still putting off trying a new MAP sensor cuz troubleshooting with a $85 nonreturnable part turns my stomach. Is there a way to test the MAP sensor to see if it is bad? My limp mode usually happens several times a week and occurs when engine is at normal operating temps and I am taking off from a stop (very little power). If I pull over to side of road or come to a stop at a traffic light, this is usually enough to reset the limp and everything is fine again
Does this sound like the limp-mode caused from a faulty MAP?

kapalczynski · **Posted:** Wed Jun 02, 2010 1:16 pm

liberty2.8 wrote:

Well, after dealing with the sporadic limp mode and after reading this thread, I think I might try purchasing a new MAP sensor. I have cleaned mine twice, first when I first bought it with around 48,000 miles. It was really cruddy. I then did the ORM and the second time I cleaned it around 20,000 later, it was basically clean. That is around the time I started getting the limp mode. I have priced it online and it looks like around $85.00. Anybody find it cheaper?

Still putting off trying a new MAP sensor cuz troubleshooting with a $85 nonreturnable part turns my stomach. Is there a way to test the MAP sensor to see if it is bad? My limp mode usually happens several times a week and occurs when engine is at normal operating temps and I am taking off from a stop (very little power). If I pull over to side of road or come to a stop at a traffic light, this is usually enough to reset the limp and everything is fine again
Does this sound like the limp-mode caused from a faulty MAP?

The only 2 times I had an issue with my jeep I believe it was the MAP sensor:

1. Driving/accelerating heavy throttle on 50mph road, lost nearly all power, black smoke out the tailpipe(Iassume lost all boost). Drove it to a parking lot, no power, heavy black smoke, shut it down, looked under hood for blown hose...nothing. Started it up, fine for a week or so.

2. Similar situation, accelerating up hill at 3/4 throttle/heavy boost, power cut, same symptoms as above, shut down, restarted adn fine to get home. I then cleaned the MAP sensor which was REALLY bad. It had soot goobers on top of soot goobers built up. Haven't had an issue yet (for about a year and a half).

Not sure if this is related to your "limp mode". Did you have black smoke, or just no power. Does it reset after shut down of engine and restart? I believe my boost pressure reading was off and it cut the boost at the turbo to be safe since things didn't add up to the safe perameters. There was still fuel for the boost though (hence the black smoke).

Do you have any way of seeing your boost pressure? Some of the guys on here got the striker module and it has display for fuel and boost pressure.

- Mark

liberty2.8 · **Posted:** Wed Jun 02, 2010 1:33 pm

kapalczynski wrote:

liberty2.8 wrote:

Well, after dealing with the sporadic limp mode and after reading this thread, I think I might try purchasing a new MAP sensor. I have cleaned mine twice, first when I first bought it with around 48,000 miles. It was really cruddy. I then did the ORM and the second time I cleaned it around 20,000 later, it was basically clean. That is around the time I started getting the limp mode. I have priced it online and it looks like around $85.00. Anybody find it cheaper?

Still putting off trying a new MAP sensor cuz troubleshooting with a $85 nonreturnable part turns my stomach. Is there a way to test the MAP sensor to see if it is bad? My limp mode usually happens several times a week and occurs when engine is at normal operating temps and I am taking off from a stop (very little power). If I pull over to side of road or come to a stop at a traffic light, this is usually enough to reset the limp and everything is fine again
Does this sound like the limp-mode caused from a faulty MAP?

The only 2 times I had an issue with my jeep I believe it was the MAP sensor:

1. Driving/accelerating heavy throttle on 50mph road, lost nearly all power, black smoke out the tailpipe(Iassume lost all boost). Drove it to a parking lot, no power, heavy black smoke, shut it down, looked under hood for blown hose...nothing. Started it up, fine for a week or so.

2. Similar situation, accelerating up hill at 3/4 throttle/heavy boost, power cut, same symptoms as above, shut down, restarted adn fine to get home. I then cleaned the MAP sensor which was REALLY bad. It had soot goobers on top of soot goobers built up. Haven't had an issue yet (for about a year and a half).

Not sure if this is related to your "limp mode". Did you have black smoke, or just no power. Does it reset after shut down of engine and restart? I believe my boost pressure reading was off and it cut the boost at the turbo to be safe since things didn't add up to the safe perameters. There was still fuel for the boost though (hence the black smoke).

Do you have any way of seeing your boost pressure? Some of the guys on here got the striker module and it has display for fuel and boost pressure.

- Mark

No,no black smoke, just a loss of power when accelerating from a stop. If I mash he pedal, it will eventually get out of its own way and will experience a hard shift. Usually I will just pull over to the side of road and shift to neutral or park. Take off again and everthing is fine. If I can't pull over due to traffic, sometimes it will reset itself. Also, no way of checking boost pressure, no gauge.

linewarbr · **Posted:** Wed Jun 02, 2010 5:15 pm

The symptoms you're describing sound a lot like others who have had a problem with the IAT Sensor. (Intake Air Temperature/Pressure) It is the sensor on the front-driver's side of the airbox lid that has a Mercedes logo on it. It is easy to jar the wiring loose when you are changing the air filter.

If it is the MAP, though, be careful on getting the right part - it is easy to end up ordering a MAF for the 3.7L gas engine. Correct part number is 68031593AA. Check out this member's post in the Tech section: viewtopic.php?f=98&t=44901

Moparpartsamerica.com currently has the MAP at $84.30. http://www.trademotion.com/partlocator/ ... 3&items=10

liberty2.8 · **Posted:** Wed Jun 02, 2010 10:12 pm

Thanks linewarbr, I guess short of taking it to the dealer for full diagnostics, it'll be a tossup between changing out the IAT or MAP sensor.

TXriverrat · **Posted:** Thu Jun 03, 2010 1:16 am

I cleaned mine when I did the EHM at 64k miles. It was extremely dirty. I used a toothbrush and paint thinner. It has been running great but as far as a code I don't know cause I have the MAF unplugged. Must say I'm a little worried now.

geordi · **Posted:** Thu Jun 03, 2010 4:03 am

Liberty2.8... I bought a MAP sensor when I was chasing down my own power loss issues. I don't have that one as a spare to sell you (I just put it in the engine today) BUT I will tell you that it sounds like you could be having the same problem that I have been arguing with for months now.

Swapping out the MAP sensor today with the new one did make a difference in the performance. It is still acting a little wonky, but the real test will be tomorrow when I leave home with it stone cold. That is when (for me anyway) it has been the most snotty about putting any power to the road.

I changed my MAP, MAF, IAT... And completely pulled apart and re-checked the entire intake hose assembly AND even went as far as pulling the turbo out trying to solve this problem. Not a dang difference until I put that MAP in today. Remember - I had put this one in right after I bought it at a dealer (for $160!!!!) and got the SAME clouds of black smoke. So I took it back out and forgot I had it. Thats when I started poking at everything else, replaced the wiring and plugs to the MAF and IAT (I DO think I had a broken IAT wire) all with no real change to the smoking power loss problems.

I don't want anyone to be dealing with this same problem... Unless their CRD happens to do what mine hasn't ever done: Delivered a CODE that gives a hint at what is wrong.
GDE has made some changes to their tune that no longer allows the IAT to cause limp or power loss problems... If you have their tune, you might want to send it in for an update. If not... Get it, you won't be sorry you did.

liberty2.8 · **Posted:** Thu Jun 03, 2010 7:49 am

Thanks geordi. Please post your results after today or several days of results. Also, let us know what "a little wonky" means :-)r

geordi · **Posted:** Thu Jun 03, 2010 6:30 pm

LOL... The definition of "Wonky" is that it still puts out a puff of smoke from a standing start... BUT it does appear that (knocking on wood) that this particular fiendish gremlin has been banished from my CRD.

Performance today was much better. I think what may have been happening (B/C I was monitoring everything through the AutoEnginuity scanner) is that the sensor was acting as if everything was all happy and proper... BUT in reality the boost was lower than the sensor was telling the computer it was. So when I saw boost on my non-OBD analog boost gauge of about 10 psi... The sensor might have been reading 10 psi as well, OR it might have been telling the computer 15. This was an intermittent problem, which is the worst kind, especially for an electrical glitch.

I remain cautiously optimistic. I will know more once I send my computers back to GDE for their latest updates. A lot has changed since I got them done originally, and Keith says that they have made some major driveability upgrades to the system. Considering how awesome the TCM program is... I'm excited to see. I just have to get to a place where ALL my vehicles are operating at the same time. Unfortunately, just as I was about to ship them out... My motorcycle stranded me with a charging failure. That is fixed now... So I try again.

liberty2.8 · **Posted:** Mon Jun 14, 2010 12:17 pm

geordi, any updates on how things are going with the new MAP installed? I ordered one last week and should be here today. I'm hoping it will solve my daily limp :juggle:

geordi · **Posted:** Mon Jun 14, 2010 7:55 pm

Well... Let me recap:

Motorcycle went down with a bad regulator / rectifier. Got that fixed (thankfully only $30 on Flea-bay, got lucky)
Got fired that week while waiting for the regulator to arrive. Lovely, but not unexpected, and I was already planning to leave that gig anyway. No love lost. So I continued packing to move. Family arrives to help me move, takes my CRD to NYC for a field trip for my sister.

Moved back to Savannah, Ga, discover during the move that BOTH of my parent's Mercury Mariner hybrids experiencing an electrical shutdown. (Both are same 06, and over 100k miles). When the electronics in them overheats (b/c they located it in the engine bay - GENIUS :banghead:

) the computer is commanded to shutdown the vehicle. Problem is caused by a failed Bosch electric water pump. Ordered one pump while driving RV (my house) back to Savannah, fixed one of the hybrids the next day. Take newly fixed hybrid on a 3-mile test drive... Get pulled over by enormous arsehole on fund-raising drive. Just what I needed. (wasn't speeding).

Sister returns to Sav with my CRD, while I take fixed hybrid down to S. FL to swap with "it only stopped one time a long time ago" other hybrid and bring that back to Sav... Hoping that I would FINALLY be able to mail off the CPUs of my CRD as my sister would now have her car back, and I could fix its pump later. 14 miles into Ga on the way up... Symptoms strand me on the side of the road for 15 minutes. Three times. *sigh*

SO.... The motorcycle works. But my sister can't ride that.
The CRD works... But it IS still having that *&^%*&%*@&$%^#*&%&^$*!@#&(&*%@$^*&^$!@!!!!!!!!! power loss issue, it returned after about 2 days on the new sensor. :banghead:

The hybrid is not drivable by my sister, as it runs for an indeterminate amount of time before the pump quits and the electronics overheat. I will have to drive that until I can replace the pump. Being unemployed at the moment, that WOULD have been a perfect time to send off the computers for my CRD. Instead, I am waiting on cash to buy this redesigned pump first. Anybody want to contribute a few pennies to the fund?

So since my CRD is yet again NOT able to stop moving for more than 12 hours at a time... I am on hold. *sigh* :banghead:

liberty2.8 · **Posted:** Mon Jun 14, 2010 8:09 pm

geordi, sorry I asked. Sounds like you're having a rough time. :dizzy:

Put my new sensor in today. One thing I noticed with the old sensor was it was coated in oil rather than soot. I guess the ORM keeps the goopy soot buildup down but maybe the wet oily buildup is the cause of sensor failure, thus your 2 day reprieve before problem returned. I hope I get more than 2 days at $96.00 a pop.

geordi · **Posted:** Mon Jun 14, 2010 9:32 pm

Oil alone shouldn't be anything to worry about, BUT if you want to cure yourself of that problem too... An EHM is a fast and easy solution that is guaranteed to solve the oil intrusion.

As for the fun in my life these last couple of weeks... Don't worry about it. It sounds worse than it is, I'm not truly unemployed b/c I do have several prospects that are possible, but none are able to happen *yet* b/c of school schedules. Thats why this break would have been the perfect time with leaving the other job and let me be able to have the time of not driving somewhere for a few days to get the CRD reprogrammed. As for the hybrids and the cash issue... That really isn't my problem - Not my cars, I'm just the sap that has to turn the wrenches. Dad's car, Dad's parts bill. Things will start to settle down now, it has just been a really busy couple of weeks. In the last 21 days, I have driven almost 4000 miles. Oof. But what pissed me off the most was getting pulled over. Had I deserved it (I do drive fast, no fooling) it would be a different story. But when I'm FOLLOWING a cop, and his captain pulls out of a private driveway going the other direction and tells the one I am following to stop and pull me over for a BULLSHIPT accusation... That pisses me off to no end.

Anyway, I knew I shouldn't have sold off my spare CRD computers tho... Oh well, hindsight. If it wasn't for bad luck, I probably wouldn't have any. :5SHOTS:

98blackss · **Posted:** Tue Jun 15, 2010 2:14 am

Hi all, I'm new to this forum. I will be doing the service from now on on my dads '05 Liberty CRD that he's had since he bought it new in '05. It now has 70K on it and will keep it till the wheels fall off! He has always had it serviced at a Jeep dealer, but now there are none that are reasonably close post bailout, and the one that is remaining is as crooked as a f'n snake. However, it does have its quirks and this boost pressure sensor/MAP/Air sensor part #68031593aa is one of them. I read through this whole thread and it seems split to clean or not clean. The Liberty is bone stock and if I dont clean it with MAF cleaner atleast every other oil change it will leave him stranded. Well sort of, the motor is useless without that turbo! I wish I didnt have to muck with it at all, and I'm curious to those of you that dont do anything at all, are you bone stock as well, or what mods have you done? I do not want to retune the ECM. I see several acronyms such as ORM EHM PROVENT etc. and have yet to figure out what these are or do. I gather one of these does something that leaves an oily mess on the driveway. I cant have that...

I am getting a backup sensor to have in my toolbox so I can just rotate every oil change. Why is there so much crud in the intake path.

Oh I use mobil1 in the liberty and its pitch black after 15 miles from the oil change. Does this have any bearing on why my intake has so much carbon going through it?

Sorry for the Noob questions but I am acustom to wrenching on my GM Gassers... This is my first diesel.

Thanks,
TJ

geordi · **Posted:** Tue Jun 15, 2010 11:31 am

Welcome to the asylum, grab any jacket that has too-long sleeves and join the rest of us.

To answer your questions, these are the acronyms you are confused about:
ORM: Off-Road-Mod. So named because unplugging of the Mass Air Flow sensor (MAF) will light up the check-engine light on the dash. THIS IS NOT A PROBLEM and in fact, will probably be the first thing you want to do. Your power will increase, as will the mileage. The reason for this mod is to force the computer to keep the EGR valve CLOSED. This prevents exhaust soot from being re-introduced to the intake, where it mixes with oil sucked from the CCV (Crank Case Vent) and creates what you would expect: Disgusting oily paste that clogs everything.

EHM: Elephant Hose Mod. This is the OTHER solution to the oily-paste problem that plugs up the MAP (Manifold Air Pressure) sensor. There is a second sensor on the side of the airbox that is ALSO a MAP sensor, this is frequently known as the Mercedes Logo Sensor. If (when) the wiring on that plug goes bad, you WILL experience limp mode CONSTANTLY and RANDOMLY until you do something about it. Trust us, getting the ECU (Engine Control Unit) reprogrammed by GDE is worth every penny. They are AWESOME to us CRD guys. The EHM is the only mod with the potential to cause some oil drippings, HOWEVER, the benefits are impressive enough that you should want to do this anyway. Solutions to the oil drip are very easy.

The EHM is simply a long hose that connects to the "hockey puck" on the top-left of the engine as you are looking into the hood. Run the hose along the top of the engine and straight down somewhere by the radiator, to below everything. Use a modern wine cork (one of the new style that is rubber-wrapped plastic) to "cork" the CCV hose to the intake. That's it. NOW, where is the oil coming from? Simply put... If you do an oil change and "add oil until the dipstick is at the full mark" rather than ONLY putting in 6.4 quarts... YOU are that source of oil. The dipstick is WRONG in just about all of our CRDs. By overfilling the oil (to that full mark) the engine will then try to "bleed off" the excess that gets beaten to vapor mist... And right into the intake through the CCV. You will see the results of this after your first (wrong) oil change with the EHM - It will drool on the driveway through that hose for a while... Then not anymore unless you add more oil to bring it back to the "full" mark on the dipstick.

SO, the solution is...... The PROVENT Which is nothing more than a canister-based filter for the EHM (and designed to connect back to the intake again) that has steel wool inside it to force the oil to condense and collect in the canister. Not a bad solution... For $200 or so. Other people have made their own from pipe parts from Home Depot... Or put the end of the EHM into an old soda bottle with a vent hole cut at the top... Which catches the drips and allows the venting gasses to simply escape like a regular EHM. If you have to have the driveway clean, this is the cheapest and (to me) most effective way to get it all - Clean driveway, clean intake, no oil mist getting sucked into the engine.

To do a proper oil change without overfilling it, next time you drain it, put only 6.4 quarts into it, wait about 30 minutes... Then put a scratch on the dipstick where the oil level is. That is your proper "full" mark, and the EHM shouldn't be drooling at all with that level. Any other questions? Jump right in and ask! You still haven't asked about the following.....

SEGR: "Synthetic EGR" a REALLY cool circuit kit designed by a member here to COMPLETELY disable the EGR valve (yours is probably frozen anyway - they fail constantly from bad design) yet prevent the computer from knowing that it isn't there anymore. YOU WANT THIS.
TCM: Transmission computer. You will want to think strongly about getting your TCM fixed by the guys at GDE. They have developed an amazing program that makes the TCM behave the way it should have originally, which will increase the vehicle's mileage AND help the transmission last even longer.
GDE: Green Diesel Engineering. The wizards of CRD testing and tuning.
EGR: Nasty little badly-designed problem stuck to the drivers-side of the engine, causing no end of problems.
FCV: Flow Control Valve. A butterfly throttle valve (diesels DO NOT NEED THIS) in the intake, primarily used by the computer (until its plastic gears break) to force even MORE EGR soot into the intake. Oh goody.
CAC: Charge Air Cooler hoses. The two big hoses that lead from the turbo to the intercooler, and the intercooler to the intake. At 70k miles, you WILL want to take these off and REALLY clean and inspect them for failure. The oil from the CCV (remember that?) ROTS THE HOSE from the inside-out... Until the pressure blows the hose and you gots no boost.

As you already know, no boost = no go. (But you get a really awesome smokescreen with the hoses blown)

MAP Sensor cleaning issues...BE VERY CAREFUL!

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