Not Again!

retmil46 · **Posted:** Sat Jan 28, 2006 7:47 pm

Perhaps I'm distantly related to Mary Shelley, but any way......

IT'S ALIVE!

Changed out the fuel filter and plumbed in the Permacool filter as well, went thru the prime and vent procedure a few times, and then fired her up. It did the buck and jerk for about 15 seconds, then after all the residual air was out of the lines, smoothed right out.

It was getting dark, and I didn't want to push my luck, so it'll be tomorrow morning before I try taking her out on the road and seeing if the problem is totally cured.

didn't drain anything really nasty looking out of the old filter, but the element looked like it was covered with a layer of fine brown silt.

oldnavy · **Posted:** Sat Jan 28, 2006 9:58 pm

retmil46 wrote:

Perhaps I'm distantly related to Mary Shelley, but any way......

IT'S ALIVE!

Changed out the fuel filter and plumbed in the Permacool filter as well, went thru the prime and vent procedure a few times, and then fired her up. It did the buck and jerk for about 15 seconds, then after all the residual air was out of the lines, smoothed right out.

It was getting dark, and I didn't want to push my luck, so it'll be tomorrow morning before I try taking her out on the road and seeing if the problem is totally cured.

didn't drain anything really nasty looking out of the old filter, but the element looked like it was covered with a layer of fine brown silt.

The first sign of microbe activity is usually a slimy brown, black or green coating on the surface of the fuel filter element. Draining the fuel, replacing the filter and refilling the tank just gives the bugs more food and causes them to grow more. The only way to deal with the problem is to clean the system and treat it with a fuel biocide that kills the bugs.

This is caused basically two ways, (1) water contaminating the fuel or supplier not adding a biocide to his fuel or both(2) Not properly biociding bio-diesel durring storrage.

I always add a half oz of Power Service Bio Kleen to my regular ration of Power Service when traveling and about once a month when just driving locally. I use 12 oz plastic soda bottles to have premixed and measured to carry when travelling.

Had my old MB 240D do this once and after biociding it was all the dead critters (they turn black after they die) that had me carrying filters for a while. Luckly the MB had a easly replaced prefilter and hand primer.

Just so you know, I have seen this on several occasions over the years.

Ranger1 · **Joined:** Mon Oct 17, 2005 7:40 pm **Posts:** 1137

"I always add a half oz of Power Service Bio Kleen to my regular ration of Power Service ..."

Where do you usually find PS Bio Kleen?

oldnavy · **Posted:** Sat Jan 28, 2006 10:16 pm

You can usually find it at major truck/fuel centers, but I buy it locally from a local fuel supplier for home heating oil and farm diesel. I think it was about $12 for 16 oz bottle, and I bought two last spring and one is still unopened and the other about 1/2 full. You might check here Power Service or Google Power Service Bio Kleen diesel fuel biocide.

retmil46 · **Posted:** Sat Jan 28, 2006 11:50 pm

oldnavy wrote:

The first sign of microbe activity is usually a slimy brown, black or green coating on the surface of the fuel filter element. Draining the fuel, replacing the filter and refilling the tank just gives the bugs more food and causes them to grow more. The only way to deal with the problem is to clean the system and treat it with a fuel biocide that kills the bugs.

This is caused basically two ways, (1) water contaminating the fuel or supplier not adding a biocide to his fuel or both(2) Not properly biociding bio-diesel durring storrage.

I always add a half oz of Power Service Bio Kleen to my regular ration of Power Service when traveling and about once a month when just driving locally. I use 12 oz plastic soda bottles to have premixed and measured to carry when travelling.

Had my old MB 240D do this once and after biociding it was all the dead critters (they turn black after they die) that had me carrying filters for a while. Luckly the MB had a easly replaced prefilter and hand primer.

Just so you know, I have seen this on several occasions over the years.

What's strange is, I've been doing the same, adding a half ounce of biocide along with every 8 oz dose of Power Service, since well before the first incident. I do it pretty much the same way, premixed, when I refill the 32 oz PS bottle I pour in 2 oz of biocide and then the rest with PS, and add 8 oz from the bottle on every tank.

Looks like I need to seriously dose the tank with biocide. I'm glad now that I added in the Perma Cool 2 micron prefilter, and ordered 3 more spare filters for it.

Good news is, after letting the fuel drained from the filter, and a sample pumped from the lines with the priming pump, sit for several hours there wasn't any visible dirt or water.

And the fuel lines appeared to be tight. Once I had the prefilter plumbed and ready to connect to the factory filter inlet, I was able to prime it by using a method normally associated with starting a Harley Davidson motorcycle. :lol:

oldnavy · **Posted:** Sun Jan 29, 2006 6:34 am

You kick start it??? :lol:

retmil46 · **Posted:** Sun Jan 29, 2006 12:28 pm

oldnavy wrote:

You kick start it??? :lol:

Yeah, rrrriiiiiggghhhhttt!

Anyhow, for general info, the rubber fuel lines are 3/8" hose. It makes the job of changing the factory filter a whole lot easier if you go ahead and disconnect the inlet and outlet hoses, and the two harnesses going to the mounting head, along with the WIF sensor, prior to trying to remove the old filter. I'd also recommend a good strap wrench, there was no way to get a standard oil filter wrench up around mine.

Also, a large trash bag under the filter to catch any spillage, not just from the filter, the mounting head tends to dribble out a good amount of fuel as well. Bleed screw takes an 11 mm wrench, operates just like a brake bleed fitting.

On the new filter, watch the center gasket that fits up around the center pipe. It's just a press fit into a land on top of the filter, and you can knock it loose if you're not careful with your alignment on the first attempt trying to screw it on.

retmil46 · **Posted:** Sun Jan 29, 2006 5:37 pm

Took it out for a test drive a while ago. Once it was warm, tried the WOT routine. No problems, back to it's old self.

Double dosed the tank with biocide, just in case it is nasties growing inside it.

Now, to take it over to the dealer Tuesday morning and raise cane about the crap that was/is floating around in my oil and cooling system.

A few people at work have suggested I demand a new engine or a new vehicle under the lemon laws. Any opinions on this? At the very least, I want this documented for warrranty purposes, in case the engine does end up with a significantly shortened lifespan because of it.

oldnavy · **Posted:** Sun Jan 29, 2006 8:40 pm

retmil46 wrote:

A few people at work have suggested I demand a new engine or a new vehicle under the lemon laws. Any opinions on this? At the very least, I want this documented for warrranty purposes, in case the engine does end up with a significantly shortened lifespan because of it.

If it were mine I would demand at the very least a new engine (complete crate ready to intall and run) and complete cooling system, including heater core, radiator, valves and hoses or new vehicle whichever is of the least inconvience to you.

Ranger1 · **Joined:** Mon Oct 17, 2005 7:40 pm **Posts:** 1137

Opinion offered in response to your request.

If you have lab reports of the oil samples with the high levels of grit, you might have some grounds to force a new engine from DCX. Lemon laws were written with the aid of lawyers for the auto industry and you will need a good attorney experienced in lemon law in NC. With your CRD running and not experiencing any issues keeping you from using it, lemon law might be difficult to prove. Going into any dealer, demanding anything without concrete proof of the problem isn't going to get you very far. There is a tremendous difference between demanding whats fair and having enough legal proof to require compensation. If you go in and threaten a lawyer, you give them time to build a case against you. If the dealer did sample the fuel and finds B20 in it, they could legally disallow your warranty on that alone, and you would have an even harder time proving loss worthy of lemon law to you, with a CRD a running engine and no issues (yet). I'm guessing a good move would be to get something down from DCX that you found grit in your oil and anti-freeze. Even then, its their word against yours, unless you have an independent lab analyze it.

If you're concerned to the point where you are willing to take serious action, consult an experienced attorney, first for advice on your chances of success with the proof you have, and at what expense, and then decide. I would think if you have samples of your first oil change, and your anti-freeze with contaminants, a good, reputable attorney would be interested in the results of those samples before he proceeded. With those presumably showing unacceptable levels of abrasives, you might have a good chance of compensation, with a good attorney representing you.

PS - I'm not an attorney :-)

retmil46 · **Posted:** Mon Jan 30, 2006 2:39 am

Well, I'm not going to go in breathing fire. I'm going to show them the physical evidence I have, express my concerns about the possible effects on engine life, ask to have this documented in writing for warranty purposes and sent up the line to DC for evaluation and possible warranty action. I'm going to ask that the service manager be present, and also bring up the fact that I did bring the vehicle in last year when I noticed the crud in the coolant tank, and that their tech completely missed it, told me it didn't need to be flushed. For the time being, the very least I expect from them is to document and report this to DC, and to do a complete flush of the cooling system.

I read thru the Lemon Law booklet, and in NC you have to give the dealership the opportunity to correct the problem. If they don't to your satisfaction, then its time to start legal proceedings.

I've dealt with this dealership for over 2 years now, and up to now they've been straight up and honest with me. I'll give them the opportunity to do the right thing first and see what happens. But I'm going to let them know that I'm going to send my samples off to have them analyzed and see if I have grounds to demand a new engine, vehicle, or other legal satisfaction.

I already know a lawyer I've dealt with before on matters pertaining to one of my parent's vehicles, might be a good idea to contact him ahead of time, if nothing else he might know of a place locally that could analyze the oil filters and coolant samples.

Not Again!

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