LOST JEEPS :: View topic - No F-37 problems with this trans

..... Holy monkey crap that is complex. Yet simple at the same time.

This is what can happen when you let an Aussie or a Kiwi out into their shed (garage) with a pint every night for a while. Sheer genius. All I can say is... I want that. Not only for the CRD, but also for electric generators and boats. Can you imagine what would happen if you could spin an engine slowly, yet extract maximum torque AND rotational shaft speed of anything you wanted at the opposite end... With no slip clutching!

Right now, generators have to spin at 3600 rpm to make American Power of 60Hz. The engine too, since they are usually direct-coupled rather than geared. This is VERY loud and inefficient. Boats, on the other hand, do not have transmissions, yet need to reach high shaft speeds to equal high travel speeds. Also inefficient.

Give me a boat that has a 15k rpm prop speed, yet has the motor turning a sedate 1200 rpm, that would be a VERY fuel efficient boat I should think!

geordi wrote:

60 Hz generators can turn at, 7200, 3600, 1800, 1200, 900, 600, or 300 RPM depending upon how many poles they have.

geordi wrote:

60 Hz generators can turn at, 7200, 3600, 1800, 1200, 900, 600, or 300 RPM depending upon how many poles they have.

geordi wrote:

60 Hz generators can turn at, 7200, 3600, 1800, 1200, 900, 600, or 300 RPM depending upon how many poles they have.

Onan uses 1800 for a lot of their engines, and they are four pole. I have a 6.5 NHD that is 1800, four pole.

Dave

dritchie wrote:

Onan uses 1800 for a lot of their engines, and they are four pole. I have a 6.5 NHD that is 1800, four pole.

Dave

I'm lost in the acronym here... NHD? Whose genset is that? How much did it cost? 6.5kw is right in the ballpark for what I need to do, and at 1800 rpm it is also in the quiet-range that I'm looking for.

geordi You can go with a small inverter generator that turns DC into 60Hz AC 120V. They are Quiet compared to 3600 RPM units as long as you have enough watts.

warp2diesel wrote:

geordi You can go with a small inverter generator that turns DC into 60Hz AC 120V. They are Quiet compared to 3600 RPM units as long as you have enough watts.

Correction: As long as I have enough DOLLARS. Those things look great, but Honda must think they are made from gold pressed latinum for the price they are asking.

Anyway, they also don't really provide the power I am looking for. I'm into the 7-10k range, b/c I'm looking to use these with ballasted film lights that pull over 1200 just for the lamp, and usually another 1200 for the ballast.

Author:	warp2diesel [ Sat May 15, 2010 10:10 pm ]
Post subject:	No F-37 problems with this trans
http://www.gizmag.com/steve-durnin-ddri ... red/15088/ Most likely would need a servo motor and the controls to run the sun gear. No more Torque converter

Author:	geordi [ Sat May 15, 2010 10:51 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: No F-37 problems with this trans
..... Holy monkey crap that is complex. Yet simple at the same time. This is what can happen when you let an Aussie or a Kiwi out into their shed (garage) with a pint every night for a while. Sheer genius. All I can say is... I want that. Not only for the CRD, but also for electric generators and boats. Can you imagine what would happen if you could spin an engine slowly, yet extract maximum torque AND rotational shaft speed of anything you wanted at the opposite end... With no slip clutching! Right now, generators have to spin at 3600 rpm to make American Power of 60Hz. The engine too, since they are usually direct-coupled rather than geared. This is VERY loud and inefficient. Boats, on the other hand, do not have transmissions, yet need to reach high shaft speeds to equal high travel speeds. Also inefficient. Give me a boat that has a 15k rpm prop speed, yet has the motor turning a sedate 1200 rpm, that would be a VERY fuel efficient boat I should think!

Author:	stoutdog [ Sun May 16, 2010 12:10 am ]
Post subject:	Re: No F-37 problems with this trans
The planets must be aligned right or something, because I actually understood most of that! Wow, that would be awesome to have as a transmission.... With the right programming, you could have just the right gear ratio for any given situation, giving you optimized power and maximum mpg!

Author:	warp2diesel [ Sun May 16, 2010 11:17 am ]
Post subject:	Re: No F-37 problems with this trans
geordi wrote: ..... Holy monkey crap that is complex. Yet simple at the same time. This is what can happen when you let an Aussie or a Kiwi out into their shed (garage) with a pint every night for a while. Sheer genius. All I can say is... I want that. Not only for the CRD, but also for electric generators and boats. Can you imagine what would happen if you could spin an engine slowly, yet extract maximum torque AND rotational shaft speed of anything you wanted at the opposite end... With no slip clutching! Right now, generators have to spin at 3600 rpm to make American Power of 60Hz. The engine too, since they are usually direct-coupled rather than geared. This is VERY loud and inefficient. Boats, on the other hand, do not have transmissions, yet need to reach high shaft speeds to equal high travel speeds. Also inefficient. Give me a boat that has a 15k rpm prop speed, yet has the motor turning a sedate 1200 rpm, that would be a VERY fuel efficient boat I should think! 60 Hz generators can turn at, 7200, 3600, 1800, 1200, 900, 600, or 300 RPM depending upon how many poles they have.

Author:	geordi [ Sun May 16, 2010 9:27 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: No F-37 problems with this trans
warp2diesel wrote: geordi wrote: ..... Holy monkey crap that is complex. Yet simple at the same time. This is what can happen when you let an Aussie or a Kiwi out into their shed (garage) with a pint every night for a while. Sheer genius. All I can say is... I want that. Not only for the CRD, but also for electric generators and boats. Can you imagine what would happen if you could spin an engine slowly, yet extract maximum torque AND rotational shaft speed of anything you wanted at the opposite end... With no slip clutching! Right now, generators have to spin at 3600 rpm to make American Power of 60Hz. The engine too, since they are usually direct-coupled rather than geared. This is VERY loud and inefficient. Boats, on the other hand, do not have transmissions, yet need to reach high shaft speeds to equal high travel speeds. Also inefficient. Give me a boat that has a 15k rpm prop speed, yet has the motor turning a sedate 1200 rpm, that would be a VERY fuel efficient boat I should think! 60 Hz generators can turn at, 7200, 3600, 1800, 1200, 900, 600, or 300 RPM depending upon how many poles they have. Or 2200, if they are geared (pulley) to that, so the power head is still turning at 3600. But that is for a non-direct-connected system. $$$$$$ Find me a commercially available small portable genset in the 7-10kva range that has more than 2 poles however, and costs less than $3k. It seems like the price point is either less than 1000, or spikes to 3500 and up. Stupid. Anything affordable for what I need is noisy like you wouldn't believe, simply b/c they use that 2-pole head and set the engine to 3600. I'm not interested in building my own generator from scratch, I need to be able to rent these out to students, so they have to be EASY to operate and understand. Quiet is the other demand... Which I am going to have to work on customizing myself.

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Author:	Goglio704 [ Sun May 16, 2010 9:53 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: No F-37 problems with this trans
warp2diesel wrote: geordi wrote: ..... Holy monkey crap that is complex. Yet simple at the same time. This is what can happen when you let an Aussie or a Kiwi out into their shed (garage) with a pint every night for a while. Sheer genius. All I can say is... I want that. Not only for the CRD, but also for electric generators and boats. Can you imagine what would happen if you could spin an engine slowly, yet extract maximum torque AND rotational shaft speed of anything you wanted at the opposite end... With no slip clutching! Right now, generators have to spin at 3600 rpm to make American Power of 60Hz. The engine too, since they are usually direct-coupled rather than geared. This is VERY loud and inefficient. Boats, on the other hand, do not have transmissions, yet need to reach high shaft speeds to equal high travel speeds. Also inefficient. Give me a boat that has a 15k rpm prop speed, yet has the motor turning a sedate 1200 rpm, that would be a VERY fuel efficient boat I should think! 60 Hz generators can turn at, 7200, 3600, 1800, 1200, 900, 600, or 300 RPM depending upon how many poles they have. Warp2 has it right. Hz is a function of the speed and the number of poles. No transmission, belt drive or anything else needed to bring engine speed down. As the number of poles goes up, rotational speed goes down to achieve the desired 60 Hz. It is also true that low end generators are usually 2 pole running at 3600 rpm, but they don't have to be that way. It is just a cheap way to do it.

Author:	geordi [ Sun May 16, 2010 10:57 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: No F-37 problems with this trans
It isn't always a function of the speed and the number of poles. Yes, IF you have more than 2 poles, then the shaft speed of the power head is less than 3600. BUT that does not directly track to the ENGINE speed, in all cases. Generac RV generators use a fixed pulley system with a belt, setting the engine speed at 2200 RPM for gas engines. Onan does something similar, and uses 1800 rpm for their diesel engines. Do they have more than 2 poles? No. I have been looking for a low-speed AFFORDABLE small generator for several months now for a project. The reality is that the multi-pole powerheads just aren't used on smaller generators. Probably b/c of cost, but possibly the size is the reason. My point is with something like this transmission idea, then the engine could always be at it's lowest-possible RPM to quiet it down, while the shaft speed of the genset could be 3600 or whatever to make the power.

Author:	dritchie [ Mon May 17, 2010 9:20 am ]
Post subject:	Re: No F-37 problems with this trans
Onan uses 1800 for a lot of their engines, and they are four pole. I have a 6.5 NHD that is 1800, four pole. Dave

Author:	tulsa [ Mon May 17, 2010 11:51 am ]
Post subject:	Re: No F-37 problems with this trans
warp2diesel wrote: geordi wrote: ..... Holy monkey crap that is complex. Yet simple at the same time. This is what can happen when you let an Aussie or a Kiwi out into their shed (garage) with a pint every night for a while. Sheer genius. All I can say is... I want that. Not only for the CRD, but also for electric generators and boats. Can you imagine what would happen if you could spin an engine slowly, yet extract maximum torque AND rotational shaft speed of anything you wanted at the opposite end... With no slip clutching! Right now, generators have to spin at 3600 rpm to make American Power of 60Hz. The engine too, since they are usually direct-coupled rather than geared. This is VERY loud and inefficient. Boats, on the other hand, do not have transmissions, yet need to reach high shaft speeds to equal high travel speeds. Also inefficient. Give me a boat that has a 15k rpm prop speed, yet has the motor turning a sedate 1200 rpm, that would be a VERY fuel efficient boat I should think! 60 Hz generators can turn at, 7200, 3600, 1800, 1200, 900, 600, or 300 RPM depending upon how many poles they have. Please explain 7200 RPM @ 60hz Lewis

Author:	Goglio704 [ Mon May 17, 2010 12:11 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: No F-37 problems with this trans
If you go fast enough, maybe you don't need any stinking poles. Lol. The math does come apart above 3600 RPM.

Author:	dritchie [ Mon May 17, 2010 1:11 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: No F-37 problems with this trans
Quantum fluxgate cowplacitor

Author:	geordi [ Mon May 17, 2010 1:57 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: No F-37 problems with this trans
dritchie wrote: Onan uses 1800 for a lot of their engines, and they are four pole. I have a 6.5 NHD that is 1800, four pole. Dave I'm lost in the acronym here... NHD? Whose genset is that? How much did it cost? 6.5kw is right in the ballpark for what I need to do, and at 1800 rpm it is also in the quiet-range that I'm looking for.

Author:	dritchie [ Mon May 17, 2010 2:19 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: No F-37 problems with this trans
geordi wrote: dritchie wrote: Onan uses 1800 for a lot of their engines, and they are four pole. I have a 6.5 NHD that is 1800, four pole. Dave I'm lost in the acronym here... NHD? Whose genset is that? How much did it cost? 6.5kw is right in the ballpark for what I need to do, and at 1800 rpm it is also in the quiet-range that I'm looking for. Geordi, NHD is the Onan model #. It is a twin cylinder, aircooled motor that was designed for use on utility vehicles with bucket lifts as it has 220v also. I believe they also use them in RV's in 120v only flavours. As for price,.....I got it for FREE, can't do better than that. It had 48 hours on the meter when I got it, it was used for standby service at a radio tower that was torn down and the owner didn't want it, has a metal lockable enclosure to boot. Got it hooked up to natural gas right now. Now that I have it, I am sure to not have another hurricane and loose power for weeks on end like after Ike. Onan is pretty proud of their stuff though. Dave

Author:	warp2diesel [ Mon May 17, 2010 7:25 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: No F-37 problems with this trans
geordi You can go with a small inverter generator that turns DC into 60Hz AC 120V. They are Quiet compared to 3600 RPM units as long as you have enough watts.

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Author:	geordi [ Mon May 17, 2010 7:31 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: No F-37 problems with this trans
warp2diesel wrote: geordi You can go with a small inverter generator that turns DC into 60Hz AC 120V. They are Quiet compared to 3600 RPM units as long as you have enough watts. Correction: As long as I have enough DOLLARS. Those things look great, but Honda must think they are made from gold pressed latinum for the price they are asking. Anyway, they also don't really provide the power I am looking for. I'm into the 7-10k range, b/c I'm looking to use these with ballasted film lights that pull over 1200 just for the lamp, and usually another 1200 for the ballast.

Author:	Sir Sam [ Tue May 18, 2010 1:48 am ]
Post subject:	Re: No F-37 problems with this trans
geordi wrote: warp2diesel wrote: geordi You can go with a small inverter generator that turns DC into 60Hz AC 120V. They are Quiet compared to 3600 RPM units as long as you have enough watts. Correction: As long as I have enough DOLLARS. Those things look great, but Honda must think they are made from gold pressed latinum for the price they are asking. Anyway, they also don't really provide the power I am looking for. I'm into the 7-10k range, b/c I'm looking to use these with ballasted film lights that pull over 1200 just for the lamp, and usually another 1200 for the ballast. Mr. LaForge shows he true colors yet again.