It is currently Mon Sep 01, 2014 2:35 pm

All times are UTC - 5 hours [ DST ]




Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 16 posts ] 
Author Message
 Post subject: ac refill on crd ??
PostPosted: Wed May 19, 2010 9:09 am 
Offline
Lifetime Member
Lifetime Member
User avatar

Joined: Fri Apr 21, 2006 11:36 pm
Posts: 894
Location: Limerick.Ireland
hi all
where id refill point for ac conditioning on 2002-2004 liberty crd
doesnt show in manual,looked on web but not much on it
cheers

_________________
2002 Cherokee 2.5 Crd Sport
ARB Bumper unit
Champion winche System
2'' Daystar lift kit
remapped ecu
Mopar light system
Samco Blue Hoses
Razer R20s filter
K&N Air filter system
Airflow snorkel system
builtin garmin system
bridgestone 245/70/16 All Terrains


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: ac refill on crd ??
PostPosted: Wed May 19, 2010 7:01 pm 
Offline
LOST Addict
User avatar

Joined: Tue Jan 10, 2006 9:31 pm
Posts: 1392
Location: Camano Island, Washington
On mine 06 it is on the right front next to the w/s washer fill. That is the low pressure side that you fill it at. The high pressure side is the fitting is across the top of the radiator.

_________________
2006 Black Jeep Liberty CRD Limited
K&N, Samco Hoses, Michelin 245/70-16 LTX A/T2, Fumoto F-102, V-Force Muffler, Mopar, Hitch, Trailer Wiring, Skid Plates, Slush Mats, Rear Shelf, Predator Stage 1, Transgo, ORM & CodeReader, Facet 40109 Pump
"IT'S A DIESEL THING, YOU WOULDN'T UNDERSTAND"
Certified Services Auto & Truck Repair


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: ac refill on crd ??
PostPosted: Wed May 19, 2010 7:48 pm 
Offline
Lifetime Member
Lifetime Member
User avatar

Joined: Fri Apr 21, 2006 11:36 pm
Posts: 894
Location: Limerick.Ireland
cheers guy

_________________
2002 Cherokee 2.5 Crd Sport
ARB Bumper unit
Champion winche System
2'' Daystar lift kit
remapped ecu
Mopar light system
Samco Blue Hoses
Razer R20s filter
K&N Air filter system
Airflow snorkel system
builtin garmin system
bridgestone 245/70/16 All Terrains


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: ac refill on crd ??
PostPosted: Wed Mar 23, 2011 5:54 pm 
Offline
LOST Newbie

Joined: Sun Mar 18, 2007 7:14 pm
Posts: 18
Location: Herndon VA
I did a search on the ac refill point and found this thread. Has anyone really tried to put freon in there. I have two fittings on the crd. The one that is near the fan shroud is indeed the High side connector. The other near the air box is the proper low side shape .... but it appears to be on the condenser liquid side. That ain't low side in my book.
Did jeep screw up? My manual also says this is the low side. I got two crd's and they are both hooked up like this.

did anyone actually hook up a manifold set and try to charge through this port?

_________________
#1 06 KJ with Suncoast, Transgo, new style trans pump, lift pump, GDE ECO tune and Trans tune
#2 06 KJ, still stock for wife so that I get to drive mine again. Ya think the benz would have been ok!
01 MKIV Jetta TDI
04 B5.5 Passat TDI
99 E300 turbodiesel
(you get the idea I like diesels?)


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: ac refill on crd ??
PostPosted: Wed Mar 23, 2011 6:34 pm 
Online
Lifetime Member
Lifetime Member

Joined: Sun Mar 28, 2010 9:15 am
Posts: 3714
Location: Tallahassee, Florida
As I understand it the AC systems on the 05/06 KJ cannot be checked with a pressure gauge. I don't understand all the ins and outs of why but apparently in newer vehicles there are only 2 ways to check AC coolent level. The performance test, see the FSM, which is to simply use a thermometer to check the temperature of your AC output. My notes for an 05 say AC performace can be checked with thermometer as long as there is no significant drop in perfomance at "idle" (e.g. ca. 1,000 rpm). See service manual pages 24-4 & 5 for test method. Do test after car FULLY cooled which takes about 10 miles on a really hot day at max. AC. June 2010 readings for my CRD were 45 and 48 at 75 and 95F ambient respectively. Alternatively your system can be fully evacuated and the coolant recovered is weighed to see if you have enough. Obvioiusly stoutdog and I are not touching our systems until they fail the temperature test. The same holds true for our 08 Honda Element. For whatever it's worth a solid AC system can go a long time without any service. My 1993 Dodge D250 purchased in 1995 at 36K miles was passed to stoutdog and then sold a couple of years ago at 125k or so miles without ever having the AC worked on and it cooled as fine as a Dodge of that vintage ever did new, which of course wasn't all that great.

_________________
05 Ltd, GDE Stg II turbo + TCM tune, SunCoast TC w. Transgo kit, Steiger window regulators, Samcos, Fumoto valve, 2nd gen filter head with Lub. Spec. bleeder, Hayden clutch & 11 blade fan, inverted spare, P-1 battery, BF Goodrich Long Trail TAs, Etecno1 glow plugs, timing belt at 50K miles/8 yrs, Miller tools to loan in my immediate vicinity


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: ac refill on crd ??
PostPosted: Thu Mar 24, 2011 1:03 am 
Offline
LOST Junkie

Joined: Mon Mar 24, 2008 10:26 pm
Posts: 630
Location: West Coast, Canada
papaindigo wrote:
As I understand it the AC systems on the 05/06 KJ cannot be checked with a pressure gauge. I don't understand all the ins and outs of why but apparently in newer vehicles there are only 2 ways to check AC coolent level. The performance test, see the FSM, which is to simply use a thermometer to check the temperature of your AC output.


Not sure where you are getting your information. I just read the 06 service manual and Step 2 after checking for DTC's is to hook up a gauge manifold set. They also give you a chart of expected suction line pressures at various temperatures. Not sure how you would check those without hooking up gauges without a transducer installed in the line.

_________________
2006 Liberty CRD Limited

Provent @ 43,000 km
SEGR in progress
SAMCO Sport hoses @ 48500 km
Goodyear Wrangler Duratrac LT225/75R16


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: ac refill on crd ??
PostPosted: Thu Mar 24, 2011 1:40 am 
Offline
LOST Junkie

Joined: Mon Mar 24, 2008 10:26 pm
Posts: 630
Location: West Coast, Canada
ihavelotsoftoys wrote:
I did a search on the ac refill point and found this thread. Has anyone really tried to put freon in there. I have two fittings on the crd. The one that is near the fan shroud is indeed the High side connector. The other near the air box is the proper low side shape .... but it appears to be on the condenser liquid side. That ain't low side in my book.
Did jeep screw up? My manual also says this is the low side. I got two crd's and they are both hooked up like this.

did anyone actually hook up a manifold set and try to charge through this port?


Which side of the orifice tube is the low side port on? Remember that the orifice is your metering valve in this system and is the border of the the high side / low side of the system opposite of the compressor.

It maybe be in that position on the liquid line as well as extra protection to the compressor from ingesting liquid refrigerant, especially when charging the system.

_________________
2006 Liberty CRD Limited

Provent @ 43,000 km
SEGR in progress
SAMCO Sport hoses @ 48500 km
Goodyear Wrangler Duratrac LT225/75R16


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: ac refill on crd ??
PostPosted: Thu Mar 24, 2011 7:23 am 
Offline
Lifetime Member
Lifetime Member
User avatar

Joined: Sat Jun 09, 2007 10:49 pm
Posts: 3543
Location: Aurora, IL
Chrysler and other auto companies push the Evac and recharge to help the dealers pay for the Acid Head Hippie EPA mandated equipment & procedure, on the backs of the customers. This crap was brought on by Junk Science funded by DuPont and sucked up by Green Peace. Of course the Elected Idiots of both parties voted it into law or gave EPA the power to do so. Arresting AC shop owners/techs who leaked refrigerant into the atmosphere was the lead story on Local News and CNN more than once.
If you put too much 134A into the system unlike the old R-12 it will hurt the performance instead of help. What the gauges will tell you if you hook them up is that you are generating pressure on the high side with in acceptable limits and that the low side is significantly lower. My gauge set has markings on the gauges (in color), but since I don't carry them with my luggage, I can't tell you the pressures off the top of my head. Since the laws of physics that apply to 134A are universal hooking the Gauge set to a car with the same type of AC system (orifice tube and expansion valve are the two most popular) that is working great will divulge the Classified Intelligence on the proper gauge pressures, just in case you don't trust the gauge colors.

Autozone, Advance, & O'Reilly sell Cheapie recharge low side color coded on the dial gauges that work for those who have back trouble and/or hemorrhoids and can't bend over at the Stealership or Ch-Ching AC shop. The other great thing about the Cheapie gauge/recharge tool is that it comes with instructions in at least three languages :idea: :idea:

When I was converting R-12 to 134A systems, and did not have the proper weight for 134A, I would mount the AC gauge set so I could see the gauge dials through the windshield and take the pressure readings going down the road with the AC on. When the down the road high side was at 175PSI, I quit adding any more 134A, worked great. Again this trick was for systems that were converted from R12 to 134A.
The thermometer test works too, in fact I leave a thermometer in my dash vent year round so I can find it or get board waiting at the light and want to know how my AC is working, turns fewer heads than the Gauges on the windshield :ROTFL: .
For our Friends across the pond, check UK eBay. For some reason lots of stuff that hits you in the face when you walk into a US Auto Parts Store, you can't find in the Auto Parts stores over there, is on UK eBay. My son who lives in the Netherlands for his Job and his Squeeze, gets lots of his stuff he needs from UK eBay.

_________________
2006 Pearl Green CRD
Magnaflow 2 1/2" Cat Back
KJ Extra Leg Room Brackets, Carter Lift Pump, V6 Airbox, ORM
Fuel cooler, Oil Separator, Progard 7
Gauges EGT Boost Trans Temp Oil Pres, Michelin LXT AT2 245 70 R16
7,000# Draw Tight hitch, PML EX Deep Trans Pan
Centrifuge, SunCoast, Transgo, RAM TCM, InMotion Stage 2
Wife's 99 TDI VW Beetle


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: ac refill on crd ??
PostPosted: Thu Mar 24, 2011 9:25 am 
Online
Lifetime Member
Lifetime Member

Joined: Sun Mar 28, 2010 9:15 am
Posts: 3714
Location: Tallahassee, Florida
WolverineFW - maybe I should have been a bit clearer. For owners the simple ac performance test is the thermometer one, quick & easy & free. If your system fails the thermometer test it gets a bit more complicted and tests are well outside my desire or ability to perform. Clearly as you note there are a number of ac components that can be tested using pressure gauges but, as I was trying to say, the "amount" of R-134a in a partially functioning system is apparently not one of those things. Thus, one cannot just add R-134a (like we used to just add R-12) and expect the system to function correctly as the amount of R-134a needs to be in a certain range for proper function. There may be ways around this, other than the evacuate and weigh approach, but I have no expertise or opinion as to whether or not that's true. That said I would assume that when doing a major ac overhall, such as replacing a compressor, that involves opening the system it would seem relatively simple, for folks with the right equipment, to pull a vacuum and refile the system with the right amount of R-134a. The difference being between a partial fill of a closed system vs. refill of a system that's been open.

At my level of expertise I'll go with the thermometer approach and consult an ac expert, preferably not dealer, if the temp levels are not met. I hope my understanding is more or less correct so if I do have to get expert help I can at least "sound" intellegent regarding the system as I've found that avoids wasting diagnostic time such as repeating, on my dime, the thermometer test.

_________________
05 Ltd, GDE Stg II turbo + TCM tune, SunCoast TC w. Transgo kit, Steiger window regulators, Samcos, Fumoto valve, 2nd gen filter head with Lub. Spec. bleeder, Hayden clutch & 11 blade fan, inverted spare, P-1 battery, BF Goodrich Long Trail TAs, Etecno1 glow plugs, timing belt at 50K miles/8 yrs, Miller tools to loan in my immediate vicinity


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: ac refill on crd ??
PostPosted: Thu Mar 24, 2011 9:33 am 
Offline
LOST Junkie

Joined: Mon Mar 24, 2008 10:26 pm
Posts: 630
Location: West Coast, Canada
papaindigo wrote:
WolverineFW - maybe I should have been a bit clearer. For owners the simple ac performance test is the thermometer one, quick & easy & free. If your system fails the thermometer test it gets a bit more complicted and tests are well outside my desire or ability to perform. Clearly as you note there are a number of ac components that can be tested using pressure gauges but, as I was trying to say, the "amount" of R-134a in a partially functioning system is apparently not one of those things. Thus, one cannot just add R-134a (like we used to just add R-12) and expect the system to function correctly as the amount of R-134a needs to be in a certain range for proper function. There may be ways around this, other than the evacuate and weigh approach, but I have no expertise or opinion as to whether or not that's true. That said I would assume that when doing a major ac overhall, such as replacing a compressor, that involves opening the system it would seem relatively simple, for folks with the right equipment, to pull a vacuum and refile the system with the right amount of R-134a. The difference being between a partial fill of a closed system vs. refill of a system that's been open.

At my level of expertise I'll go with the thermometer approach and consult an ac expert, preferably not dealer, if the temp levels are not met. I hope my understanding is more or less correct so if I do have to get expert help I can at least "sound" intellegent regarding the system as I've found that avoids wasting diagnostic time such as repeating, on my dime, the thermometer test.


I get what you were trying to say now. You are correct in saying that the amount cannot be checked. The only way to know that with 100% certainty is to evacuate and recharge to the appropriate weight using a scale.

_________________
2006 Liberty CRD Limited

Provent @ 43,000 km
SEGR in progress
SAMCO Sport hoses @ 48500 km
Goodyear Wrangler Duratrac LT225/75R16


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: ac refill on crd ??
PostPosted: Thu Mar 24, 2011 3:59 pm 
Offline
LOST Newbie

Joined: Sun Mar 18, 2007 7:14 pm
Posts: 18
Location: Herndon VA
I think we aren't on the same page. From what I observed under the hood it looks like BOTH fittings are on the high side of the system! One is on the high side of the compressor, just before the condensor. The other is ALSO on the high side, after the condenser on the liquid side of the system.
Can someone check me on this? I may be hosed up and confused.

_________________
#1 06 KJ with Suncoast, Transgo, new style trans pump, lift pump, GDE ECO tune and Trans tune
#2 06 KJ, still stock for wife so that I get to drive mine again. Ya think the benz would have been ok!
01 MKIV Jetta TDI
04 B5.5 Passat TDI
99 E300 turbodiesel
(you get the idea I like diesels?)


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: ac refill on crd ??
PostPosted: Thu Mar 24, 2011 8:40 pm 
Offline
LOST Junkie

Joined: Mon Mar 24, 2008 10:26 pm
Posts: 630
Location: West Coast, Canada
ihavelotsoftoys wrote:
I think we aren't on the same page. From what I observed under the hood it looks like BOTH fittings are on the high side of the system! One is on the high side of the compressor, just before the condensor. The other is ALSO on the high side, after the condenser on the liquid side of the system.
Can someone check me on this? I may be hosed up and confused.


That is what I read in the service manual. Discharge line port is in the line on top of the condensor on top of the fan shroud. The low side port as they call it is on the liquid line near the on the back side of the air box I believe.

Remember the 134a fittings are a special size so that someone cannot slap r12 hoses on and mistakenly charge it that way. High side port fitting is larger that the low side fitting. Discharge line fitting should be larger that the fitting near the air box.

If in doubt, get a pro to take a look at it.

_________________
2006 Liberty CRD Limited

Provent @ 43,000 km
SEGR in progress
SAMCO Sport hoses @ 48500 km
Goodyear Wrangler Duratrac LT225/75R16


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: ac refill on crd ??
PostPosted: Thu Mar 24, 2011 11:20 pm 
Offline
LOST Newbie

Joined: Sun Mar 18, 2007 7:14 pm
Posts: 18
Location: Herndon VA
That's exactly the problem! I too have read the service manual and then looked at the vehicle. Jeep calls it a low side fitting and it's on the liquid line AFTER the condenser. Ask any AC 'pro' and that isn't low side. So how the heck do you fill these things? You can't put the charge in on the high side. It has to be put in on the low side with the compressor running.
I think Jeep messed up. I guess I need to have an AC shop make me a new low side hose with a service fitting on it. I think this is the dumbest thing I have seen. Other than the crappy torque converter and the silly programming of the TCM. I guess it's only money! More bucks thrown at this thing to fix the manufacturers mistakes.

_________________
#1 06 KJ with Suncoast, Transgo, new style trans pump, lift pump, GDE ECO tune and Trans tune
#2 06 KJ, still stock for wife so that I get to drive mine again. Ya think the benz would have been ok!
01 MKIV Jetta TDI
04 B5.5 Passat TDI
99 E300 turbodiesel
(you get the idea I like diesels?)


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: ac refill on crd ??
PostPosted: Fri Mar 25, 2011 3:52 am 
Offline
LOST Junkie

Joined: Mon Mar 24, 2008 10:26 pm
Posts: 630
Location: West Coast, Canada
ihavelotsoftoys wrote:
That's exactly the problem! I too have read the service manual and then looked at the vehicle. Jeep calls it a low side fitting and it's on the liquid line AFTER the condenser. Ask any AC 'pro' and that isn't low side. So how the heck do you fill these things? You can't put the charge in on the high side. It has to be put in on the low side with the compressor running.
I think Jeep messed up. I guess I need to have an AC shop make me a new low side hose with a service fitting on it. I think this is the dumbest thing I have seen. Other than the crappy torque converter and the silly programming of the TCM. I guess it's only money! More bucks thrown at this thing to fix the manufacturers mistakes.


You need to go back to one of my previous posts. You have not identified where in the liquid line the orifice tube is located. If it located right near the condensor outlet before the service port, then the port is on the low side of the system.

I found a copy of the 2002 KJ service manual online and it states that the orifice tube is located in the liquid line right next to the condensor, probably to identify it since that manual states their orifice tube is serviceable. The 2006 manual states the orifice tube is not serviceable and therefore makes no attempt to specify its exact location.

How do you believe Jeep intially charged the AC system from the factory if both ports are located on the high side of the system as you are assuming?

_________________
2006 Liberty CRD Limited

Provent @ 43,000 km
SEGR in progress
SAMCO Sport hoses @ 48500 km
Goodyear Wrangler Duratrac LT225/75R16


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: ac refill on crd ??
PostPosted: Sat Mar 26, 2011 7:58 pm 
Offline
Lifetime Member
Lifetime Member
User avatar

Joined: Sat Jun 09, 2007 10:49 pm
Posts: 3543
Location: Aurora, IL
For those who don't have the manifold gauge set here is an option that is cheaper than the Steelership or the ChChing (not all AC shops are crooks)AC Shop:
http://www.amazon.com/EF-Products-Synth ... B0002KKLJS

For across the pond: http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/CAR-AIR-CONDITION ... 2a0a58cc09

Read the instructions and since the low side fitting can not fit the high side, you won't blow up the AC system.
Where you connect of North American versions, and some Euro ones:
Image
The tool bought from Auto Parts Store:
Image
Back side of tool:
Image
Chart on back side of gauge so you get it right:
Image

Never add more than what is recommended, your AC will not cool as well and overload the compressor, even lock it up.
If the compressor is fried, belt squealing and showing signs of overloading, most likely you have a clogged orifice tube.
The tool is only for use when you have lost a small amount of R134A and want to top it off to compensate for slight loss over several years for when the reading is slightly less than the optimum reading on the chart. If you are at 0.0PSI on the gauge when you connect it, you have big problems, better see a real AC shop and get the leaks fixed. Count on having to shell out for a receiver dryer and having what ever leaked out fixed. Leak could be "O" ring, line, hose, compressor, condenser, evaporator, or other leak source.

_________________
2006 Pearl Green CRD
Magnaflow 2 1/2" Cat Back
KJ Extra Leg Room Brackets, Carter Lift Pump, V6 Airbox, ORM
Fuel cooler, Oil Separator, Progard 7
Gauges EGT Boost Trans Temp Oil Pres, Michelin LXT AT2 245 70 R16
7,000# Draw Tight hitch, PML EX Deep Trans Pan
Centrifuge, SunCoast, Transgo, RAM TCM, InMotion Stage 2
Wife's 99 TDI VW Beetle


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: ac refill on crd ??
PostPosted: Fri Apr 01, 2011 4:40 pm 
Offline
Lifetime Member
Lifetime Member
User avatar

Joined: Wed May 24, 2006 6:52 am
Posts: 3414
Location: Columbus, Ohio. USA
WolverineFW wrote:
I found a copy of the 2002 KJ service manual online and it states that the orifice tube is located in the liquid line right next to the condensor, probably to identify it since that manual states their orifice tube is serviceable. The 2006 manual states the orifice tube is not serviceable and therefore makes no attempt to specify its exact location.


The low side fitting on a 06 CRD is indeed the one by the windshield washer fill cap. It you look carefully at the stright section of aluminum line to the right of the washer fill bottle and running left to right you'll see two dimples in the line about 6 inches apart. That is where the orifice tube is located. So everything to the right of that is in the low pressure side. So to "service" it the whole line would need replaced :furious:
I replaced the evaporator on my XJ 2 years ago and the orfice tube is about 2 feet long and goes into the firewall. Easy to replace with the snap fittings. It would be expensive on the KJ :dead:

_________________
Atlantic Blue 06 CRD Limited (his)
Joined by a 2000 XJ Classic (hers)


Top
 Profile  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 16 posts ] 

All times are UTC - 5 hours [ DST ]


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Baidu [Spider], Bing [Bot], COdogman, fettersp, papaindigo, rescue.tech and 16 guests


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum

Search for:
Jump to:  
Powered by phpBB © 2000, 2002, 2005, 2007 phpBB Group. Color scheme by ColorizeIt!
Logo by pixeldecals.com