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Oh Boy, Possible issue here.
http://www.lostjeeps.com/forum/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=53017		 Page 1 of 2
Author:  dieselsmoke [ Sun May 23, 2010 7:19 pm ]
Post subject:  Oh Boy, Possible issue here.
As some of you may know my wife and i picked up an 05 crd like 3 weeks ago now. So far we have done a turbo back(no cat or muffel), an intake mod, and EHM........

I have changed the oil 2x now. The day i bought the crd(used 15w 40 dino oil), and changed it shortly after with full synth 5w 40 rotella.

So I consider myself somewhat knowledgeable about diesels considering i went to school for diesel tech....anyways. Here is the issue.

On idle the crd will haze a hint of blue smoke. Also following my wife it will haze blue smoke as well.

Underload while in park, i can hold the rpms around 2000 and it seems to REALLY(can see it lingering in the air :shock: ) haze blue smoke and seems to skip a bit.( i think the skip'n is air in the fuel), but anyways.............I know there could be a number of things causing this such as tubo seals,piston rings,valve seats....yada yada.

Also the funny thing is, it dosnt do it all the time. And while in park with no load on idle, it seems to do it for a few min's and then stops. then starts back

Could this be normal for the EGR crap open and closing?
Anyone have this issue?
The engine seems to run great despite the blue haze, no loss in power and no abnormal ticking or knocking from the engine.
Also the engine only has 59,000 miles on it

Im a stress monster and this is killing me! please chime in with you experiance
Author:  dieselsmoke [ Sun May 23, 2010 7:21 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Oh Boy, Possible issue here.
Also, ill will get some pics up asap with the crd under load and on idle
Author:  ATXKJ [ Sun May 23, 2010 7:32 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Oh Boy, Possible issue here.
Quick check on the EGR - unplug the sensor on the top of the airbox (not the side)
the EGR will default to off - the haze should go away (the power and mileage should increase)
a CEL will come on P102. (It'll clear up in 3 engine cycles after you plug the sensor back in... if you plug the sensor back in)

for details - search for ORM - Off Road Mod - it disables a Federally mandated emission control - so we can't recommend it on the highway --- but it's a good test.
Author:  dieselsmoke [ Sun May 23, 2010 8:09 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Oh Boy, Possible issue here.
ATXKJ wrote:
Quick check on the EGR - unplug the sensor on the top of the airbox (not the side)
the EGR will default to off - the haze should go away (the power and mileage should increase)
a CEL will come on P102. (It'll clear up in 3 engine cycles after you plug the sensor back in... if you plug the sensor back in)

for details - search for ORM - Off Road Mod - it disables a Federally mandated emission control - so we can't recommend it on the highway --- but it's a good test.


Oh yes....im familiar with the ORM, but i didnt think about that. thanks.......So check this out.

THe wife and i just got back from the store.....before we left I said hey look at this smoke issue(she has no clue whats shes looking at lmao, she just give me positive reinforcement that things are ok lol) I couldnt get the darn thing to smoke to save my life on start up, idle, or load! not one bit. So we drove to the store then i got out, no smoke, got back and let the egt's cool...still no smoke. So she pretty much calls me a freak.

So now no smoke at all. WTF! :banghead:
Author:  Joe Romas [ Sun May 23, 2010 8:15 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Oh Boy, Possible issue here.
Check for air in the fuel head. when I had air in the fuel head preformance was very unreliable. Sometimes good and sometimes bad.
Also see if the MAF is clean or sludged up :SOMBRERO:
Author:  dieselsmoke [ Sun May 23, 2010 9:13 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Oh Boy, Possible issue here.
Joe Romas wrote:
Check for air in the fuel head. when I had air in the fuel head preformance was very unreliable. Sometimes good and sometimes bad.
Also see if the MAF is clean or sludged up :SOMBRERO:


Just cleaned the MAF last week(it was nasty like everyone elts)

Iv got my new lift pump wired and mounted(need to run the fuel lines. this should take care of air issues)

My performance is great! Every now and then it will skip a little. Most of the skipping will happen only when i hold the rpms around 2000 in park. It dosnt skip lower or higher than that.

Also, considering i havnt got my tune yet, im get'n around 28 to 29 mpg with my turbo back and intake mod(this was calculated with ZERO fuel in the tank, then a fill up and i averaged the gal's/miles)

I never knew what type of oil was ran in the crd b/f i got it. it had all its dealer service records though. Im now run'n the full synth. I also added some power systems diesel clean my last tank.

But like i said, power and mpg's are great. No engine noise thats not normal, and it didnt even smoke the last time we drove it(a few hour ago) I guess i will have to wait and see what the tune does for the EGR
Author:  dieselsmoke [ Sun May 23, 2010 9:15 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Oh Boy, Possible issue here.
Thanks for the advice so far.

Anyone elts?

Anyone ever had this issue?
Author:  MrMopar64 [ Sun May 23, 2010 9:29 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Oh Boy, Possible issue here.
The blue smoke you see is hydrocarbon. If the ECU is stock, this is due to retarded injection timing. The exhaust probably stinks, too.

Put the cat back in, there's no appreciable performance impact and the blue smoke/bad smell will go away.
Author:  warp2diesel [ Sun May 23, 2010 10:02 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Oh Boy, Possible issue here.
If you put the cat back in, open up the rear cat restriction flange to 2 1/2" by doing some creative fabrication, lots of ways to do it right just open it up to 2 1/2".
I ran a bunch of back pressure tests and when I opened up the rear cat restriction flange and got rid of the stock muffler the back pressure dropped to 0.0PSI, can't ask for more than that. Also after I did the mod, I got no more smoke or haze ever.
Author:  dieselsmoke [ Sun May 23, 2010 10:19 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Oh Boy, Possible issue here.
MrMopar64 wrote:
The blue smoke you see is hydrocarbon. If the ECU is stock, this is due to retarded injection timing. The exhaust probably stinks, too.

Put the cat back in, there's no appreciable performance impact and the blue smoke/bad smell will go away.


Well, it stinks yes. but i nor her mind. I will be get'n a hot tune as soon as GDE runs the sale.

Also could you explain why the ecu is going to retard the timing? i guess cause its picking up it doesnt need that much fuel?

Also have do you know what the egt's are with the cat in vs out?

Btw thanks for the info....
Author:  dieselsmoke [ Sun May 23, 2010 10:22 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Oh Boy, Possible issue here.
warp2diesel wrote:
If you put the cat back in, open up the rear cat restriction flange to 2 1/2" by doing some creative fabrication, lots of ways to do it right just open it up to 2 1/2".
I ran a bunch of back pressure tests and when I opened up the rear cat restriction flange and got rid of the stock muffler the back pressure dropped to 0.0PSI, can't ask for more than that. Also after I did the mod, I got no more smoke or haze ever.


Thanks for the advice, it you cant tell by my sig i like to make lots of hp, not say'n that im gonna go too crazy with the crd, just a habit of going all out on a project.

I also tig'd this exhaust with some stainless i had lay'n around from some other fabrication and it took forever so im gonna leave it like it is.
Author:  nursecosmo [ Mon May 24, 2010 12:10 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Oh Boy, Possible issue here.
MrMopar64 wrote:
The blue smoke you see is hydrocarbon. If the ECU is stock, this is due to retarded injection timing. The exhaust probably stinks, too.

Put the cat back in, there's no appreciable performance impact and the blue smoke/bad smell will go away.



Removing the CAT will NOT, repeat NOT, cause any more smoke than usual to be evident to the naked eye. I can say with absolute authority that my CRD actually made more visible smoke with the CAT intact, but only after goosing it after an extended period of light running. Soot can build up on the CAT matrix until it reaches a hot enough temp to burn it off. Carbon ignites at 400C (somewhat decreased by the catalyst), but unless enough go pedal is applied, it will not reach this temp.

If an excessive amount of unburnt hydrocarbons if being produced because of a cold engine, the CAT does nothing. It has to be hot to work.

Why do you say that the stock timing is retarded. It is not optimum for the best economy or power, but it is not retarded.
I like the smell of my catless exhaust. When the CAT was intact, biodiesel REALLY stank because of the CAT.
Author:  nursecosmo [ Mon May 24, 2010 12:18 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Oh Boy, Possible issue here.
dieselsmoke: It's possible that when you had the Turbo replaced, that a lot of oil was introduced into the intake. This is however unlikely. The most likely culprit is air in the fuel. This will produce a whitish/bluish smoke which has a characteristic cold engine odor. The fact that you were getting some "skipping" is further weight toward this diagnosis. Get that LP hooked up and let us know the results.
Author:  BVCRD [ Mon May 24, 2010 10:10 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Oh Boy, Possible issue here.
Looks like they were available on Rennys as well.

http://consumerguideauto.howstuffworks. ... erty-8.htm
Author:  dieselsmoke [ Mon May 24, 2010 10:52 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Oh Boy, Possible issue here.
nursecosmo wrote:
dieselsmoke: It's possible that when you had the Turbo replaced, that a lot of oil was introduced into the intake. This is however unlikely. The most likely culprit is air in the fuel. This will produce a whitish/bluish smoke which has a characteristic cold engine odor. The fact that you were getting some "skipping" is further weight toward this diagnosis. Get that LP hooked up and let us know the results.


That sounds logical, the crd does not do it all the time. only under load around 2000rpm's. then the skip'n starts....i guess air could be get'n into the system at idle as explaining smoke on idle......
Yea, i dont know how the the ecu would know to retard the timing its self w/o reprogram or something like that. I dont like to tell people that they are wrong either when they post, if they are or not. i just take advice and use my current knowledge to try and rule out the problem. I know the CP3 on my cummins has an FCA which has a sleeve/shim/ or what i learned in school is a type of meetering valve in the common rail injection pump(i have takin mine out to replace with a modified one) dont qoute me but i belive it reads the volts, when it see's the number its looking for the sleeve actuates/slides, allowing the triangle shape cut out to slide across a port, which allows more fuel, then the ecu regulates it...or whatever. With this being said, im assuming the cp3 on the crd has the same style set up. And if you wanted to grow some balls machine out the triangle, or better yet replace it with a duramax or cummins cp3. If it will fit/work would would dump enough fuel to have the availability to power around 500hp or so, with even the stock FCA from cummins/dmax.

So thats the only way i know the timing could be changed.
Author:  dieselsmoke [ Mon May 24, 2010 10:57 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Oh Boy, Possible issue here.
here are some pics of what im talking about. I might try this someday when i have enough money to replace my engine after it explodes.

Until then ill stick to fixing my current issues, smoke and skips.
Author:  dieselsmoke [ Mon May 24, 2010 11:06 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Oh Boy, Possible issue here.
just though i would throw this in there too. which it might be the cascade valve also. a little off subject but if you could replace these parts(if they will work) with even stock cummins or dmax you could make some power.

http://www.cumminsforum.com/forum/3rd-g ... ained.html
Author:  nursecosmo [ Wed May 26, 2010 4:10 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Oh Boy, Possible issue here.
So? Anything to update us on?
Author:  mackruss [ Tue Jun 01, 2010 1:06 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Oh Boy, Possible issue here.
nursecosmo wrote:
So? Anything to update us on?


Yes how are you going to pass your emissions test without a cat or don't you have to go through the test in your neck of the woods 8)
Author:  geordi [ Tue Jun 01, 2010 8:21 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Oh Boy, Possible issue here.
Emission tests are for OTHER people... Sometimes it is a good thing having a Florida address. :D

Cat? Why no, these Biodiesel-Flex-Fuel models never came with them... They were just too clean naturally.

I love the fact that b/c I put a giant "Powered by Biodiesel" sticker in the top of the back window... People have actually asked me how much it cost to get it "converted" to run on biofuels. I drive in the HOV lanes and never get bothered b/c they think it is one of the alternate fuel certified vehicles. :mrgreen: :mrgreen: :mrgreen: :mrgreen:
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